National Yacht Liquidators Question?

[Lobster]

Has anyone purchased a boat through this company? Here is what just happened to us. My Aunt and Uncle recently bought a house on the intercoastal in Pompano Beach. They want a boat or a pontoon for cruising the intercoastal, but know nothing about boats. My side of the family has been boating our whole lives, so my uncle asks for my help. I said I would keep my eye out for the right unit, at a good price. Well, last Thursday I find a pontoon at NYL, I call them, it is still available. The first chance we have to go look at it is yesterday morning (Monday 10:30am). So we look the pontoon over good, the units nice, I give my uncle the green light. The salesman tells us it arrived on Dec 17 and has had no bids. I tell my uncle it is a great price how it sits, but just for good measure we offer just a few hundred bucks less than the asking. The salesman rights it up and says he will call us today (tuesday) with an answer. Well, the salesman just called my Uncle and said between us leaving yesterday (Monday 10:30am) and now (11:30 am tuesday), there has been 18 new bidders, and we are now way down the list with our bid. The salesman says the current high bid is now a $1000 more than the asking? Maybe this was a Christmas Miracle for the bank, but it seems a little shady. The unit has been there ten days with no bids, within 24 hours of our bid, 18 new horses are now in the race? Needless to say my Uncle now has a bad taste in his mouth and said don't bother looking at boats they have listed. Any thoughts?

[BUIZILLA]

very typical...

your NOT the first

they did the same to me 3 months ago

in fact, they have done that twice to me now

never again.. :smash:

[cigdaze]

That's how they play. Heard this time and time again about them.
Leave your bid alone, tell it's your final offer and that they may call you when their other bidders fall through.

They did NOT get 19 bids in one day on a pontoon, I promise you that. :rolleyes:

[BraceYourself]

I would just say well congradulations but if those bidders fall out you know my number and the price.

Then just keep looking.

Then if they were full of ****, and call you back in a few weeks or months and say the deal fell through...

Then you say well that is great, but my price has dropped 1K dollars. If they say ok, great. If not, play their game, let them sit on it another few weeks and call them and say you decided to take their offer.

It's the boat business, NOTHING IS EASY!

[BUIZILLA]

tell them your offer drops every week by $500..

depreciation don't ya know... :)

[Lobster]

The best part about it is that I look stupid. My fault, I should have taken a step back and used my head. This is South Florida, and we are dealing with the marine industry. This is kind of like the Boston Whaler tender I drove all the way to Kendall to buy recently. Only to find out the boat pictured, and described in the ad, was what the boat once looked like when it was new.

[DollaBill]

do yourself a favor and just find another one from a decent dealer or individual. People are giving those things away this time of year

[Sea-Dated]

do yourself a favor and just find another one from a decent dealer or individual. People are giving those things away this time of year

:iagree::iagree:

[BUIZILLA]

I hear Bank of America pulled their business from NYL....

follow the money.. :sifone:

[DollaBill]

NYL is a joke. They are misrepresenting themselves as a yacht "auction" business. If they would like to press the issue here then bring it. My father sits on the National Auctioneers board and I'm licensed in FL and 37 other states.

It's a reverse auction that waits until the real offers have dried up and then the boat turns to crap and the seller (bank etc) gets screwed. That simple.

About 8 years ago I got the name FloridaYachtAuctions.com and stupid me did nothing with it.

[Lobster]

If nothing else, maybe this thread will save someone here from getting jerked around in the future. Thx Guys

[DCB F32]

Same thing happened to my buddy this past April. He made an offer on a boat and they came back at a price higher than what it was listed for.

The same boat was just sold by another company after the bank took it away. Oh BTW it sold for less than his original offer after sitting around all this time.

[MarylandMark]

Welcome to SOS DCB F32!

[Expensive Date]

When a large boat dealership in NJ gave up there floor plan,or something like that.None of the boats went to National.I think the banks are tired of them too.

[Lobster]

The story below pretty much says it all:

Edward R. Cozzi
Charter Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 187

You guys need to be very careful dealing with National Liquidators.

A very good friend of mine, Antonio Melero, was bidding on that 36' Apache when it was listed. The salesman, Alex Craig, told him if he slipped him $1,000 under the table that he would see to it that Tony's offer would be the winning bid.

When Tony didn't get the boat, Alex denied ever getting the money. Tony went to Shane and the owner, Mr. Toney, and they both said they would look into it. Today Tony is STILL out his $1,000. They are all lying bull$hitters and crooks.

Don't take my word for it. Call Tony Melero direct and he will confirm what I've said here. (305) 450-5501. They've had ample time to do the right thing and they still refuse to step-up. Alex Craig is STILL working there too!!!
__________________
Focus on what makes you win, not what your opponent has to make you lose. [/I][/B]

[Skullkrusher]

Let that be a lesson. When you conspire with someone to commit fraud, don't pay him cash upfront.

[LaughingCat]

Lobster, did they call you back to say the other bid fell through yet?

I'm never a fan of buying any big ticket item where you have a numberof hours to make payment and move the item or they start charing you exorbitant fees. I like classic America where you have time to shake hands, drink a Coke and make arrangements to move your item, not discolor the whole experience with this nonsense.

[Lobster]

L.C. - We have not gotten a call back. But I did call yesterday as if I were a new customer inquiring on the unit. They said yes, it's still here and available, feel free to come look at it and place a bid if you are interested. It's all a bunch of B.S., smoke and mirrors. They are really doing the banks a disservice. And what I don't get is the mentality. They get a % from the seller, and I know they get a % from the buyer. There are probably pick up and storage fees they pass onto the bank. Usually when you are acting as an "Agent", the selling price is not your concern. Your number one concern is getting a buyer, and a seller to agree on the sale, no matter the price. Because 10% of something, is greater than 100% of nothing. I don't care if your selling widgets, offers don't buy groceries at Publix, closed deals do.

[Team Tsunami]

When a large boat dealership in NJ gave up there floor plan,or something like that.None of the boats went to National.I think the banks are tired of them too.

It depends on the bank I believe. Thats why some of Fastboats inventory went to Legendary Marine and the new Outerlimits that Hartman had. I know a guy dealing with them in Ohio now and it seems to be going well so far. Hopefully it stays that way for him.

[JupiterSunsation]

My buddy bought a 25 Rinker from them about 6 months ago.....went smoothly but boat was a little rough (paint faded, canvas ripped, no trailer). He bought it for 12k and nada trade in was 20K so he thinks he did ok, not stole it but ok. Boat had an $800 service (impeller, belt, fluids, anodes, etc at outside mechanic) before it hit the water and has been trouble free for 6 months with the sole exception of a cracked pulley/belt.

They were a little slow to get boat dropped on his craigslist trailer, they were closing no one here to load boat, come back tommorow type BS.

[MarylandMark]

I wish it were $2k....

Lay with dogs.....

[Slandrew]

The story below pretty much says it all:

Edward R. Cozzi
Charter Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 187

You guys need to be very careful dealing with National Liquidators.

A very good friend of mine, Antonio Melero, was bidding on that 36' Apache when it was listed. The salesman, Alex Craig, told him if he slipped him $1,000 under the table that he would see to it that Tony's offer would be the winning bid.

When Tony didn't get the boat, Alex denied ever getting the money. Tony went to Shane and the owner, Mr. Toney, and they both said they would look into it. Today Tony is STILL out his $1,000. They are all lying bull$hitters and crooks.

Don't take my word for it. Call Tony Melero direct and he will confirm what I've said here. (305) 450-5501. They've had ample time to do the right thing and they still refuse to step-up. Alex Craig is STILL working there too!!!
__________________
Focus on what makes you win, not what your opponent has to make you lose. [/I][/B]Sue him for 2k say it was verbal agreement!:boxing_smiley:

[Lobster]

I wanted to thank Shane Hunt the National Sales Manager from NYL for taking the time to address this thread, and answer some of my questions. There are too many emails to put them all here, but I will share one that describes their process. He said he would address anyone's issues on a one to one basis. I know our possible pontoon purchase is peanuts in their bucket, so I did appreciate him taking the time for me.

"I see him (My Uncle)in the bids and it looks like he was working with Jim H and he is a top notch broker, his bid (My Uncle) was $5,550.00 + the fee and the winning bid was $6,889.00 + fee’s I also spoke with the broker that had the winning bid and it looks like the deal is going to fund. FYI the winning bid was not through Jim H.

The bank has the option to except the bid, reject, and or counter, more time than not they will counter a bid unless it fits into their acceptable loss ratio. Just another bit of info we have an average turn time of 68 days = all of the inventory gets sold in that time, not saying that there are not exceptions to that 68 days but our 90 day old list is very small. We do not let inventory set until it gets old and then “SCREW THE BANK” as I believe it was put by someone on the web site.

Another bit of info that can be passed on is the National web site shows a “MINIUM BID” this is not what the unit will sell for it is just a SUGGESTED MIN BID, you can bid higher or lower but only the highest bid gets sent to the bank and then every week by Thursday we have all the answers. The one down fall we do have is getting the units off the web site when they are sold, the reason for this is the time from when the bid is approved from the time the final paper work is signed, this is generally about 15 days. The reason I am explaining this is if you call on this pontoon today and asked if it was available and were told no and then looked at the website next week and it was still on there you would think that you were being given the run around and that is not the case. The units are not removed until the final paper work is done and as you can imagine this may take some time especially for our international buyers.

Hope this helps and would you like for me to give you a call when another pontoon comes in?

Respectfully,

Shane Hunt,

National Sales Manager"

[mosi]

I love fairy tales with happy endings:rolleyes:

[Dreamer]

NYL is straight up( maybe some s. fla employees arent, but hey i got bartenders that steal)... u just have to understand the process... its not an auction... though the do hold auctions from time to time... i.e. madoffs asset auction

they repo, transport, and store for the banks as well as market the assets and present the highest bid by 4 pm on mondays... ergo why all bids come in on late monday... there r numerous dealers that shotgun bid, 30-40 boats every week just to see what happens

the "high bid" of that monday is presented to bank... sometimes they dont even bother to answer... they r so busy and backed up... so it goes another week

anyways if u r the high bid... u have that week to deal with the bank... new offers come in that next monday and u have to have at least some sort of agreement with the bank by then or they look at other bids( wouldnt u if u were the bank?)

so they accept or counter... then u accept or wait till next week and start over

the way to do it is to accept the counter... and lock the boat up and do your due dilegence... the survey and inspection report that u get "finds some issues" and u use that to lower your offer by a bunch(lot lower than u r willing to pay).. that new "offer" after you "found out it needed work" cause of the survey and pics u take of it being filthy, and missing a ton of stuff... makes the bank nervous cause they have no idea what they repoed and it condition.. they dont survey or inspect the vessels...

So now a "serious" buyer who accepted their #'s and payed upfront for a survey is about to walk away after finding out the "true condition"... that they didnt realize and decide to take a loss greater than they wanted.... and u meet somewhere in the middle of their counter and your counter after "you got it looked at"

u go home happy with a cheap boat... they get there money... then have to pay repo fees, storage fees, "auction" fees... and other $$$ in bonus money if the boat went fast.. or "points" if they refied on the new deal... ( that dont happen anymore since the crash)

dont hate the player... hate the game


now things have changed since the economy took a dump

repo prices ARE retail prices... so repoes have to be had even cheaper... but all the interest in buying "repo" has caused the demand to go up and their volume to go up also... so prices follow...

just because u got the boat at repo prices mean u got a good deal AT ALL... u very well over paid

u guys have no idea what some stuff out there is moving for... if i were to list it u would all thow up.. and i would get a million PMs about how my post is detrimental to the boat market etc etc

well that is my take

ive purchased from them and got a great deal that i made money on in 4 months and i also sold thru them(they also do "brokerage auctions")... i sold a boat that i bought from a private party and sold "auction style" for 30% MORE than i paid 12 months and lots of use later

just do your homework and study the market... and keep your eyes and ears open for deals

[Chris]

Maybe someone can answer this...

In Ohio, the law states that a repossesed motor vehicle must be sold at public auction with a whole list of prescribed practices. Real estate is required to be sold at public auction by the county sheriff. I wonder why a boat would be exempt?

[Dreamer]

define "public auction"

list on web is notification

and bids r submitted

the reason behind the law is to get fair value... and if that is over what is owed balance goes to the person it was repoed from

[DollaBill]

What bothers me Ted is that National promotes itself (and has for years) as "liquidators". And, their method of sale is a "bid" system. These two characteristics lead the buying public to believe they are auctioning these boats off, when in fact, they are not auctioning anything. I do believe they are walking a fine line, legally and ethically, when it comes to their practices.

[Dreamer]

maybe their system satifies the law?

dunno.... just freezing after a week in miami

[sledge]

In FL at least, "public" auctions aren't required for vehicles or vessels.

[Dreamer]

What bothers me Ted is that National promotes itself (and has for years) as "liquidators". And, their method of sale is a "bid" system. These two characteristics lead the buying public to believe they are auctioning these boats off, when in fact, they are not auctioning anything. I do believe they are walking a fine line, legally and ethically, when it comes to their practices.

they act as the middle man in the deal... thats after they do all the work... repo( or there agents) transport and store... its just a service

no it is not a going once twice three time auction but they never say they r...

what gets me is this is the umpteenth thread on here and OSO asking how national works and all the replies... but instead of READING there website everyone just jumps right to the invfentory and looks at the boat porn:cheers2:

NO ONE EVER reads how it works and its spelled out on there site

how would u like to own the four largest boat sales lots in the country and not only pay NO floorplan... but plan on getting paid to put the boats on your floor!!!!!!!!!:willy_nilly: smart business

[Dreamer]

Step One
Review the boats available in this week's auctions on our inventory pages. Each yacht is coded with it's own stock #. The boats are listed by location and then by length for easier selection and viewing. Columns can be sorted by any header simply by clicking on the desired header column (i.e. stock number, length, etc.). We recommend personal inspection of the boats at our location, or call us to arrange a viewing at other locations.

Step Two
It is important that you talk to a broker in the office where the boat is located so that details regarding the particular unit can be reviewed (see company tab on the top for direct dial numbers to our offices). Regardless of whether or not you have worked with one of our brokers in the past all offers must be submitted and faxed on our official offer form. Download our Official offer form (312k PDF) or our Official U.S. Marshals Service seized vessel offer form (312k PDF) complete it and fax it in to the appropriate office. NO OFFERS WILL BE SUBMITTED without talking with a broker first and confirmation of receipt of a signed offer form. Verbal offers, unconfirmed or unsigned offer sheets will be thrown out.

Our Sales Staff is Available
Monday – Saturday from 9:00am - 6:00pm at (800) 633-7172

Florida Office - Hours of Operation
Monday – Friday 9:00 am – 5:00 pm
Saturday 10:00 am – 4:00 pm and
Sunday by appointment only

Ohio and California Offices - Hours of Operation
Monday – Friday 9:00 am – 5:00 pm
Weekends by appointment only

You may use the contact section to enter all of your pertinent contact information (please be sure to indicate phone and cell number) as well as the stock # you are interested in. A broker will promptly return your call to issue you a bidder number.

There is a $20.00 first time bid fee* required at the time the bid is submitted. Additionally, there is a $1000.00 deposit required with all bids submitted. Both the $20.00 fee and $1000.00 deposit can be paid with cash, credit card, certified funds or wire transfer. Your broker of record will discuss these options and deposit requirements with you prior to submitting your bid.

*If the boat or yacht you are bidding on is a U.S. Marshals Service seized vessel (noted in the right column of the inventory list with a Marshals symbol) the $20.00 bid fee is waived.

Step Three
Yacht and boat auction offers are cut off and opened on Monday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. Bids are automatically sorted and the high offer on each vessel is submitted to the bank, U.S. Marshal's Service or vessel owner on Tuesday morning. Responses are typically received within 48 hours. The seller, at his sole option, may accept or reject the offer or make a counter offer. Once the highest offer is responded to (accepted, rejected or countered), we will contact the high bidder immediately to notify them of the response. If an offer is not responded to or not accepted within a particular weekly cycle, it is simply placed back for sale in the next week’s bid cycle. All offers need to be resubmitted weekly (if desired), offers are only good for the one week period in which they were signed and submitted.

Bidder Responsibilities
First time bidders are responsible for the $20.00 non-refundable bid fee. This fee covers the administrative process of entering that bidder into our system for future transactions.

A credit card number must accompany all offers submitted. Upon acceptance of an offer, $1,000 will be charged to the credit card. If the credit card is declined the offer will immediately be voided.

Upon verbal notification of acceptance of an offer, the buyer has 5 working days to complete any “conditions” as set forth and pay the amount due IN FULL via certified funds. Failure to close the transaction within 5 business days after notice of acceptance will result in $1000 deposit being forfeited and the boat placed in the next auction cycle.
The bidder has 24 hours (or one business day) to remove the purchased vessel from our facility or make storage arrangements after closing. Storage charges will accrue on ALL vessels until vessel departs at our standard rates (refer to http://www.yachtauctions.com/services.asp for current rates).
There is a minimum $299.00 buyer's premium* on all vessels charged as an administrative fee for paperwork handling
* If the boat or yacht you are bidding on is a U.S. Marshals Service seized vessel (noted in the right column of the inventory list with a Marshals symbol) the $20.00 bid fee and the $299.00 buyer's premium is waived.






caveat emptor

[Chris]

Reposessed vehicles are sold at live public auctions in Ohio. There's an auctioneer and bids are taken until the higherst bid is received. The seller may place a reserve on the vehicle, but that only means it goes through the process again.

The other way is a seled-bid auction with a public bid opening. Bids are taken and at a certain time and place they're opened publicly.

Listing something, accepting offers and arbitrarily accepting one whenever the mood strikes in no way meets any legal definition of an auction. I can't believe a bank would be willing to let someone else choose who to sell it to- I'd be suspicious that it might get back-doored to a friend- or accomplice. Plus, I would imagine the bank's auditors would frown upon it.

[DollaBill]

they act as the middle man in the deal... thats after they do all the work... repo( or there agents) transport and store... its just a service

no it is not a going once twice three time auction but they never say they r...

what gets me is this is the umpteenth thread on here and OSO asking how national works and all the replies... but instead of READING there website everyone just jumps right to the invfentory and looks at the boat porn:cheers2:

NO ONE EVER reads how it works and its spelled out on there site

how would u like to own the four largest boat sales lots in the country and not only pay NO floorplan... but plan on getting paid to put the boats on your floor!!!!!!!!!:willy_nilly: smart business

I'm not knocking their business model. It works for them. I made ALOT of money repo'ing boats and then selling them for banks.

As far as people being confused about how they do business.. you have to wonder if at some point the gravy train will stop when the banks and buying public says enough is enough.

[2TR]

The story below pretty much says it all:

Edward R. Cozzi
Charter Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 187

You guys need to be very careful dealing with National Liquidators.

A very good friend of mine, Antonio Melero, was bidding on that 36' Apache when it was listed. The salesman, Alex Craig, told him if he slipped him $1,000 under the table that he would see to it that Tony's offer would be the winning bid.

When Tony didn't get the boat, Alex denied ever getting the money. Tony went to Shane and the owner, Mr. Toney, and they both said they would look into it. Today Tony is STILL out his $1,000. They are all lying bull$hitters and crooks.

Don't take my word for it. Call Tony Melero direct and he will confirm what I've said here. (305) 450-5501. They've had ample time to do the right thing and they still refuse to step-up. Alex Craig is STILL working there too!!!
__________________
Focus on what makes you win, not what your opponent has to make you lose. [/I][/B]




I Had a similar thing happen to me. When I went to look at boats I would bring a gift card from McDonald's or Speedway to give the salesman while we were walking out to check the boat. I looked at it as a "tip", It did not cost much and they seemed to appreciate it.

Plus I figured if they had some inside info on the boat they may be more willing to share it. Well one person said for a couple bucks he would make sure I got the boat I wanted, I said sure.. will you take a check? Needless to say he said no he wanted cash, I said Nope.

I than told him if I win I'll double his "fee", he than questioned my integrity saying "How can I trust You" ??? I said How can I trust you ??

He said ok.. But I never won, so I never paid him. :toetap05:



But I have bought boats from Harrison Marine and those guys have always been on the Up-and-Up, so I would recommend them 100%

[sledge]

Listing something, accepting offers and arbitrarily accepting one whenever the mood strikes in no way meets any legal definition of an auction. I can't believe a bank would be willing to let someone else choose who to sell it to- I'd be suspicious that it might get back-doored to a friend- or accomplice. Plus, I would imagine the bank's auditors would frown upon it.

Remember it's in the liquidator's best interest to get the highest price, so they're aren't highly motivated to give things away. Plus the lenders can reject bids.

From what Ted described, it seems a bidder may actually be able to game the system more so than the liquidator. Bid retail to lock it up, then knock it down with a survey/inspection - as long as you get that in the bid/contract.

[Skullkrusher]

That process has more holes in it than a ton of Swiss Cheese. The bank should require all of the offers to go directly to them. NYL can pass along selectively only the ones they want to or relay a bid price to someone else. $20 bucks to "put you in the system"? Even the airlines haven't thought of that one.

[jet]

A good freind of mine got a screeming deal on a 1980 something 30 scarab big blocks trs trailer ....no prob in ohio, we took it apart for the parts and filled it with concret to sink at the cory for a dive reef

[MarylandMark]

the bank should require all of the offers to go directly to them.

+1

[Shane Hunt]

Just FYI the bank does and can see every bid in the system, everyone thinks we write this stuff on a paper and then fax the ones we want to the banks, Funny!!

It is a sealed bid system that the banks have a back door to and they can view all if they like.

[Dreamer]

shane share this thread with Matt he will find it halarious

[DollaBill]

I"m simply going to point something out here that maybe won't be found all that funny. (And I'm not kicking you in the nuts Dreamer b/c we are good friends)

It's obvious that MANY buyers have a VERY negative perception of NYL. They may have sold lots of boats over the years but it would take them another 20 years to repair their credibility. It will catch up some day....

[mosi]

Just FYI the bank does and can see every bid in the system, everyone thinks we write this stuff on a paper and then fax the ones we want to the banks, Funny!!

It is a sealed bid system that the banks have a back door to and they can view all if they like.





" if they like".........
.
.
.
....the Bank EE's don't give two ****s about that.


.:rolleyes: