Old posts about APACHE

[cashbrain]

This is a post from Dan L,who owned 3-41's

Bobby still owns the 36 molds. He stepped the original mold a couple of years ago but it didn't work very well. They need a new bottom. His company is Apache Performance Boats. He's grossly under financed and has had various investors over the years. Mark McManus started building the 41 in 87-88 through around the mid '90s.He still re-furbs boats and built a few 42's under his own name. That company is Apache Powerboats.He sold a set of 41 molds to Saber, but I belive Saber defaulted.
There is a 2nd set of usable molds, but its not my place to address their whereabouts or use. Around 100 41's were built. Bobby and Mark were both on thunderboat row originally, but Mark moved everything across the state to Ft Meyers. Mark built around 8 47 footers, maybe 4 pleasure and 4 full race. There was no deck mold for the 47 so he stretched the 41 deck over it and filled in the middle. There was an investment group that was going to revive the 41 under Heritage or New Era or something like that. They had a web site until recently. Century boats ended up with the 28 foot molds but I've never seen anything popped from them. The 22 Brave molds were for sale last year for $15000. The boat is very similar in length and freeboard to the 21 Team Shadows that run around up here. There are a few i/o's out there but alot had outboards hung in a well. I own 3 41's including a full race carbon fiber/kelvar boat. A few posts elsewhere on this board made a comparison to an Apache riding like an old convertible. Thats just bull. The boats are heavy and need to be driven to work well. Big engines with lots of torque and a good throttle hand gets a ride like no other boat. We just ran the outside from Ft Lauderdale to Miami and back 3-4 times last week and it just couldn't get any better. It you ever see one at the dock, lean on the deck or the gunnel. The boat does not move under your weight

Better Craig?

[cashbrain]

Eric Froberg:

I really wish people would refrain from posting or speaking on subjects they know either little or nothing about. For the past 3 and a half years Bob and myself have worked hard to set straight the confusion surrounding our name. I have posted our phone number several times on this board and the offer is always good; if you want to know just call and ask. Hear it from the horses mouth. 305-493-4999, ask for Bob Saccenti or Eric Froberg.

Bob Saccenti is the founder of "Apache". Ben Kramer was a business associate and a racing partner. Apache Performance Boats (Bob Saccenti) built the 22' Scout, 28' Brave and 36' Warrior. Apache Powerboats (Ben Kramer) built the 41', 45' & 47'. Kramer's financial backing and Saccenti's touch on the trim and sticks put Apache on the map. Together, they were one of the most dominant teams in Offshore Racing. Mark McManus was nothing more than Kramer's employee.

Things started to come apart for Kramer's Apache when he was charged with drug related crimes, followed later with connections to Don Aronow's murder. Kramer's Apache was seized by the federal government and it's assets later sold at auction. Mark McManus was appointed custodian of Kramer's Apache while the government built and presented it's case against Kramer. SO, out of which Cracker Jack Box did McManus get Apache? You do the math. The Federal Government must have a terrific employee of the month program.

The 28' Brave and 28' Brave CC were sold to Cherokee Powerboats (Eric Froberg) in 1993. I hear Baha pulled a skin from one of my old boats and are building it as a 30 footer with a bottom wavier than an American Flag in a 40 MPH breeze. Century did purchase the 22' Scout molds.

The 36' Warrior was originally double stepped a few years back with great results. Through R&D and evolution we have simply eliminated the leading step. Our single step works great. We were at "Lake X" yesterday running the 36' we had at the boat show. Twin 500 EFI's, 9200 pounds of boat, 400 pounds of people, 450 pounds of fuel and spinning 28" Bravo 4 blade's. 10,050 pounds of mass and I saw 81.5 MPH on two seperate GPS units, one hand held - one dash mounted. We would say that is more than respectable. But, what do we know? Bob and I represent only 60 years of experience. Perhaps "DanL" would like to design a new bottom for us.

So, once again. Apache is alive and well in Miami, FL. We are presently building the 24' Eagle, 28' Brave, 28' Brave CC and the 36' Warrior. All models are wood free.

[cashbrain]

Dan L

Easy does it. I am not misstating and appreciate that you are setting the record straight. Nobody seems to ever have the entire story at one time. I am well aware of the founding of the line and the kramer story. I don't know when the first boat was built or when Mark took over production, but Mark has built the majority, wouldn't you say? I like the 36 and like Bobby. Its too bad that we disagree on the bottom design. Do you think that a new design would allow your boat to run faster? I believe you do. 80 is ok, but new generation boats with the same power are much faster. As for the 28, I know that the molds were passed around in the early '90s. Thats when it became Cherokee? So it was the 22 that went to Century. Didn't they take the 28 as well? Oh, and just for the record, even though I own 3 41's, I have never in my life talked to Mark McManus or spent 1 dollar with him. This wasn't a tribute, it was some of the first and offhand information that I gathered over the years. I just happened to be speaking to one of the old partners of Bobs the other day. Real nice Magnum he's running around in. Peace
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[cashbrain]

Tonto:

Hey Guys
Lets just all be thankful that they had the where-abouts to build these great boats! We just took four 47's down to the Keys on the FPC Poker Run and had a blast. I agree with you Dan, that water was great of the coast last weekend. Ain't nothing in the world like flying a 47. They might be a little on the heavy side, but what you get in return in one of the best rides in any offshore boat that was ever built. When people tell me that my boats are slow, I ask them to come play in my element; big offshore water.
I talked to McManus at the Lauderdale show and he told me that there were 28 47's pulled from the molds. That's his words not mine, I was just inquiring on how many were built. He did convert my 47 from a 6-pack to pleasure cockpit back in '95 and put a full cabin in the boat, you gotta love that center steering.
If anyone is looking I know where there are three of the nicest 47's for sale.
Eric,
Good Luck keeping the tribe going. Great job on Austin's interior, by the way.

[OldSchool]

Better Craig?

Yes it is. Thanks. Posting a link to another site does nothing towards what we are trying to accomplish here. If you are so interested in old threads "over there", go over there and bring them back up.:)


But if you are "so over it" as you say....why do you feel the need to keep stirring it all up?? Get over it already.....or better yet, go buy a boat and enjoy boating!!

[cashbrain]

Not stirring anything up...
Dan L and Eric had an interesting perspective...
I have my sights set on a few boats and will do exactly that... :driving:

[Magnum Mark]

not stirring anything up...
Dan l and eric had an interesting perspective...
I have my sights set on a few boats and will do exactly that... :driving:

Get a life. Same crapola over and over and over and over and over.


Billy.

[cashbrain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf_-Hw1MVww&feature=related

[Magnum Mark]

Yes it is. Thanks. Posting a link to another site does nothing towards what we are trying to accomplish here. If you are so interested in old threads "over there", go over there and bring them back up.:)


But if you are "so over it" as you say....why do you feel the need to keep stirring it all up?? Get over it already.....or better yet, go buy a boat and enjoy boating!!

Yo dude send him a couple of KOOSIES and send him on his way.


Billy.

[cashbrain]

Everybody is a critic !! :cuss:

And Mark...who's Billy?

[Sean Stinson]

One of the Dalton Gang from the late 1800's????????

[Magnum Mark]

Everybody is a critic !! :cuss:

And Mark...who's Billy?

a kid from wisc whom turned me onto this site..being that i am almost featherless i took over. whats it to ya.

[DAREDEVIL]

One of the Dalton Gang from the late 1800's????????

HAHAHAAH:willy_nilly::rofl:

[cashbrain]

a kid from wisc whom turned me onto this site..being that i am almost featherless i took over. whats it to ya.


NICE :icon_bs:

[Geronimo36]

"Billy D. believes that each person's life is full of stories, and adventures, that are worthy of being immortalized in song. Billy says "I like to take the ordinary things that happen to us all, shine them up, wrap them in lyrics and music, and put them on display for anybody who will listen." ;)

[cashbrain]

Good for Billy

[fund razor]

I love people with two screen names.
Especially when they discuss things amongst themself. :D

[Magnum Mark]

good for billy

"featherless"...........................BETTER for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Magnum Mark]

i love people with two screen names.
Especially when they discuss things amongst themself. :d

happy i entertained you. It worked for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!film at 11:00.

[ApacheRob]

I love people with two screen names.
Especially when they discuss things amongst themself. :D

ha ,cant we just all get along and play nice in the sand box?

[cashbrain]

Of course..just some friendly bantering...
not to be taken seriously

[BattleCry]

Dan Lanza...from the grave! It has been awhile since Dan Lanza's passing. This site wasn't even created when he was alive. Somethings just amaze me.

If you are over it, Jack, then be over it. If you want to bring up the past...Then Get Ready For It!!!

[cashbrain]

Dan Lanza...from the grave! It has been awhile since Dan Lanza's passing. This site wasn't even created when he was alive. Somethings just amaze me.

If you are over it, Jack, then be over it. If you want to bring up the past...Then Get Ready For It!!!

I knew Dan and Becca...Just happened to find these old posts and thought they were interesting...can't it be that simple without someone making some ridiculous observation?
Nothing personal,but, how am I accountable to you,Andy?

[fund razor]

I knew Dan and Becca...Just happened to find these old posts and thought they were interesting...can't it be that simple without someone making some ridiculous observation?
Nothing personal,but, how am I accountable to you,Andy?

it's called standing behind your post, jack.

btw....it's december, 2009. please make a note of it.

[cashbrain]

Standing by my post that from comments that someone else made a long time ago?
Ok,no problem..I posted them :ack2:

[fund razor]

Standing by my post that from comments that someone else, who is now dead and can't comment further made a long time ago?
Ok,no problem..I posted them :ack2:
I fixed it for you. :)

[Magnum Mark]

standing by my post that from comments that someone else made a long time ago?
Ok,no problem..i posted them :ack2:

thats 2 demerits jack..

[cashbrain]

I'll just go to my 'time out" chair :)
btw...how many merits do I get? Just need to know how bad I can be :kiss:

[cashbrain]

I fixed it for you. :)

Wow...interesting perspective...
How bout looking at content?

[Geronimo36]

Jack, there's no backround info for why it was posted so you have to expect others to question your motive.

While I agree it's an interesting perspective from back in the day but problem is Dan was an enthusiast and Eric was a builder and he is the credible source. No knock on Dan, it just is what it is. Dan knew what he knew because of what he owned and liked (hobby). Eric knew what he knew because he was actually building boats and running a company... He knew the corporate "history" and why the new bottom was the way it was and it wasn't built to be the fastest boats like some of these other new "flat bottom" boats.

Eric and company accomplished their goal so it doesn't matter what Dan's perspective was.... So as said above; "If you want to bring up the past...Then Get Ready For It!!!"

[Geronimo36]

I also agree with Fund, unfortunately Dan can't respond so better left alone.... :(

[cashbrain]

Jack, there's no backround info for why it was posted so you have to expect others to question your motive.

Does there always have to be a motive? Can't we just simply appreciate a perspective from someone else?

While I agree it's an interesting perspective from back in the day but problem is Dan was an enthusiast and Eric was a builder and he is the credible source. No knock on Dan, it just is what it is. Dan knew what he knew because of what he owned and liked (hobby).
Did you know Dan? He was very knowledgable, and I don't think there has been too many people that habe owned 3 APACHES

Eric knew what he knew because he was actually building boats and running a company... He knew the corporate "history" and why the new bottom was the way it was and it wasn't built to be the fastest boats like some of these other new "flat bottom" boats.

Again do you know Eric? He is extremely knowledgable and a very competant boat builder. I'm glad that I helped put the APAPCHE deal for him and Bobby..it worked out well for them

Eric and company accomplished their goal so it doesn't matter what Dan's perspective was.... So as said above; "If you want to bring up the past...Then Get Ready For It!!!"

Here's where you are wrong..Dan's perspective is valid and I would say the same about Magnum Mark

[Geronimo36]

1. Yes, history dictates there is usually a motive on these forums whether or not it is implied or directed.... Give a little background info. up front and you wont be accused.

2. While I did not know Dan personally I have spoke to him numerous times about his boats and projects.

3. I've spoke to Eric numerous times as well... He and Bobby both helped me find a 36'.. Bob introduced me to Eric in/around 2000 timeframe.. Also, last winter him and I had in-depth discussions on how to properly set my X dimension, along with Bobby.... Net results were a 4 mph gain...

4. His perspective has some validity but Eric has more credibility in my eyes.... This is an opinion and it's one that I've formed from 1. being around boats my whole life. 2. Having worked and earned a living in the industry prior to become an "enthusiast".

Carry on Jack!!! :)

[Geronimo36]

Here's where you are wrong..Dan's perspective is valid and I would say the same about Magnum Mark

If that's your belief then heed Marks advice!:cheers2:;)


Get a life. Same crapola over and over and over and over and over.

[cashbrain]

[QUOTE=Geronimo36;380500]If that's your belief then heed Marks advice!:cheers2:;)[/QUOTE

Wow...way too damn serious...
take the posts as they were meant...an opinion

GET OVER IT

[Crash-Box]

Where is the"Magic Button"?

I GONG this thread !!!...

C-Ya

C.B.

[cashbrain]

Me too GONG !!! :icon_bs:

[fund razor]

I always felt that Mark McManus is one of the best. He is a gentleman day in and day out.that's old:sifone:

[fund razor]

I noticed that "The new Apatchee's" website was down the other day!!


What will become of Thad's company....after all, it will be the greatest powerboat ever made!!also old:sifone:

[fund razor]

From what I understand, and anyone can correct me, was that cashbrain (Jack L[edit]) fraudulently sold the "APACHE" name and ALL its rights to Thad, who subsequently sued Mr.McManus for the rights.............................and lost


uh-oh. back to you, jack.:blush5:

[fund razor]

Mr. Saccenti signed over the rights that he owned to me,legitimately...if Mr. McManus wants to challenge me,he'll lose...no fraud, no Bs..just alot of name sayers like Tonto causing a problem and full of BS.....NEXT !!!
i see.
:)

[fund razor]

Not quite the way Bob S tells the story. According to Bobby and this is going from memory so I do not state this as fact, as long as Bobby was building boats he had the right to use the name. No name was sold or rights to it in the Thad deal if that was the case. In order for Thad to win the recent case Bobby would of at least had to be actively involved in building boats with him or for him to even stand a chance in court.

Sounds like the only thing sold was a misunderstanding.

I have enjoyed my conversations with both Bobby and Mark and know that if you sat down with each of them and had a little knowledge of trademarks, you would understand this alot more.

For now, good luck to both Bobby and Mark in their future endeavorshmmmmm:USA::leaving:

[fund razor]

Ike/You gotta get Pam into a 41 for a ride! The Warpaint boats looks really nice! I'd bet she would simply love blowing down the bay at about 60 just casually sipping on the beverage of her choice just enjoying the ride! Have a nice Easter!ike later scored a 41:):):)

[fund razor]

somewhere in here we passed the cig section in posts:D:D:D

[fund razor]

ok, i give up.

[cashbrain]

Originally Posted by tonto in 2004
From what I understand, and anyone can correct me, was that cashbrain (Jack L[edit]) fraudulently sold the "APACHE" name and ALL its rights to Thad, who subsequently sued Mr.McManus for the rights.............................and lost

Total Bullchit..Robert doesn't have a clue

Originally Posted by offshore steve in 2004
Not quite the way Bob S tells the story. According to Bobby and this is going from memory so I do not state this as fact, as long as Bobby was building boats he had the right to use the name. No name was sold or rights to it in the Thad deal if that was the case. In order for Thad to win the recent case Bobby would of at least had to be actively involved in building boats with him or for him to even stand a chance in court.

Sounds like the only thing sold was a misunderstanding.

I have enjoyed my conversations with both Bobby and Mark and know that if you sat down with each of them and had a little knowledge of trademarks, you would understand this alot more.

For now, good luck to both Bobby and Mark in their future endeavors

Also,more Bullchit....all the know-it-alls. Funny thing is that attorneys did this deal,were paid ALOT of money to do it, and they still screwed it up.
Is there a reason that you are posting this stuff up here? Not one of these guys had ANY clue what happened. It is all BS talk out of their AZZES.
Gotta Luv the internet trolls:icon_bs:

[cashbrain]

Hey Fund..You think I need to defend this BS stuff? Hardly...
btw...This one IS true !!

Originally Posted by cashbrain in 2004
Mr. Saccenti signed over the rights that he owned to me,legitimately...if Mr. McManus wants to challenge me,he'll lose...no fraud, no Bs..just alot of name sayers like Tonto causing a problem and full of BS.....NEXT !!!

McManus had zero chance to get the rights until I spoke to his attorney..
What don't you ask him? or better yet, his attorney :bump:

[fund razor]

Is there a reason that you are posting this stuff up here?[/COLOR]i thought that it was a thread about old apache posts and wanted to help. :):cheers2:

[cashbrain]

i thought that it was a thread about old apache posts and wanted to help. :):cheers2:

AWWW...Thanks ! I really appreciate the old BS untrue statements that you were able to dig up...:cheers2:

[fund razor]

AWWW...Thanks ! I really appreciate the old BS untrue statements that you were able to dig up...:cheers2:
i'll stop. sorry found posts looking for posts. we could ask a mod to poof.

[cashbrain]

No prob...they are actually funny..shows how ignorant some people are..:leaving:

[fund razor]

probly not cool to plunder the old site anyway. i'm done.

[cashbrain]

probly not cool to plunder the old site anyway. i'm done.

Darn...just when we were starting to have fun :ack2: :smash:

[Gaffrig]

ApacheCarl here, Jack you are so full of it, the mind boggles. Thads lawsuit against McManus concerning the ownership of the Apache mark was dismissed by a Federal judge many years ago. Thads claim to the Apache mark was your "assignment" of the mark to him. Lets take, for atleast the fifth time, a trip down memory lane. Thad, with your assignment is the Plaintiff. Here's the money quote from the Right Honorable Judge Kenneth L. Ryskamp, thats "Your Honor" to a legal degenerate such as yourself :“Had Plaintiff performed a reasonable inquiry into the “Assignment” itself and the circumstances surrounding its alleged execution, the fraudulent nature of the document would have become evident immediately,” That was 2004, after 5 years I would have thought somebody would have upped your meds and this delusion would have faded. Give it a rest.