EPA in 2010 whats gunna happen

[Powerabout]

Whats the story with the new sterndrive and inboard regs for gas engines in just over 2 months....
Have many engines pass the law?
How hard to build a new one and get compliance?
Must be a thread somewhere?

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/marinesi.htm

OK engines delayed one year
what about the fuel tank systems for evaporation

[schnydo]

Epa can regulate our breath,ya think our boats have a chance

[jmbtile]

looked into this for Randy at Cobra. It appears that this effects all marine engine manufacturers that sell more that 50 engines per year. At least thats the way I read thru all the pages of BS.

[Shah Mat]

And you thought boats were expensive before....Wait til you have to repair/replace a marine emission component. I can't imagine what a marine catalytic converter costs.
Would it be too much in this struggling economy to ask the manufactures to give an extended warranty on emissions components like the auto manufactures do?

Oh well, sooner or later it was coming... Lawn mowers, chainsaws and weed eaters are next. Can't complain though, because pollution left un-checked can't be a good thing.

[Powerabout]

The cat conv are delayed for a year although Volvo Merc and Indmar each have a model out there to see what happens I guess?
How big will a cat conv be for a 1200hp engine???

I dont read the the evaporative emission stuff has been delayed so does that mean pressurised fuel tanks and charcoal cannisters very soon?
That could help the ethanol stuff as it will stop the fuel absorbing water from the air?

[Indy]

Liberals

What's fair is fair, they mandate pollution controls on boats which are just a blip in the internal combustion arena, but trucks are free to spew their black clouds without penalty because of lobby efforts.

[Tony]

Liberals

but trucks are free to spew their black clouds without penalty because of lobby efforts.

Not really, Back in 07 the commercial truck industry got a set of strict new regulations rammed down its throat. The price of an 06 v.s 07 identical truck was outrageous due to the converters.

[Indy]

Not really, Back in 07 the commercial truck industry got a set of strict new regulations rammed down its throat.

Could have fooled me the last time I was on I-95.

[C_Spray]

Like everything, there are plenty of old clunkers out there. Bear in mind that a million miles is nothing in a truck; they can have 20-year lifespans, so it takes a long time to clear the roads of the older models. The 07 and later trucks have all sorts of new technology, including what amounts to a particle-burner to keep pollution levels down.

As far as boats go, most of use as much gas in one month in our boats as we do in all our cars in a year, so it's hard to protest too much. It will get even more expensive, especially due to the smaller production volumes. Mercury and Volvo will get it done, but the intermediate-level suppliers will have a harder time unless they can piggyback off of the big guys' technology.

A lot of people complained when pollution regulations forced the auto industry to convert fuel injection and electronic ignition, but I'd never go back to caburetors and points. My current cars run LOTS better than my 1970's cars ever did!

[Ratickle]

A lot of people complained when pollution regulations forced the auto industry to convert fuel injection and electronic ignition, but I'd never go back to caburetors and points. My current cars run LOTS better than my 1970's cars ever did!

Remember the original smog motors in like 1974 though....:ack2:

[Matt Trulio]

I've written a little bit about this. For sure, it's complicated. I'll have to look back at the two pieces I did on the subject to try and give you guys a shorter, simpler version, though nothing about this is short and simple.

If you get a chance, check out the latest issue of Powerboat. I did a small article on the 8.2-litre engine replacing the 8.1 litre engine. The nut of it is ... the new engines, at least as marinized in the MerCruiser line, only make 5 hp more in the base and HO setups, but they do it as fully catalyzed models.

That's pretty cool considering that not all that long ago some of the biggest voices in the marine engine business were saying, categorically, that catalytic converters would "never" work in a marine application. Wrong.

But will they work in a big-horsepower marine engine? The people I've spoken with in the top two leading production high-performance engine companies are not optimistic. So where does that leave the big-horsepower engines? Well, as someone here stated, a builder's annual engine output does leave some wiggle room.

Not mentioned is averaging emissions, also part of the current CARB and EPA requirements, across an entire builder's line. That also leaves some wiggle room for engine models that don't meet emissions standards..

This certainly doesn't answer the question originally posed in this thread, but I hope it sheds some light.

[Powerabout]

I've written a little bit about this. For sure, it's complicated. I'll have to look back at the two pieces I did on the subject to try and give you guys a shorter, simpler version, though nothing about this is short and simple.

If you get a chance, check out the latest issue of Powerboat. I did a small article on the 8.2-litre engine replacing the 8.1 litre engine. The nut of it is ... the new engines, at least as marinized in the MerCruiser line, only make 5 hp more in the base and HO setups, but they do it as fully catalyzed models.

That's pretty cool considering that not all that long ago some of the biggest voices in the marine engine business were saying, categorically, that catalytic converters would "never" work in a marine application. Wrong.

But will they work in a big-horsepower marine engine? The people I've spoken with in the top two leading production high-performance engine companies are not optimistic. So where does that leave the big-horsepower engines? Well, as someone here stated, a builder's annual engine output does leave some wiggle room.

Not mentioned is averaging emissions, also part of the current CARB and EPA requirements, across an entire builder's line. That also leaves some wiggle room for engine models that don't meet emissions standards..

This certainly doesn't answer the question originally posed in this thread, but I hope it sheds some light.
Turbines and diesels?

[MikeyFIN]

The cat conv are delayed for a year although Volvo Merc and Indmar each have a model out there to see what happens I guess?
How big will a cat conv be for a 1200hp engine???

I dont read the the evaporative emission stuff has been delayed so does that mean pressurised fuel tanks and charcoal cannisters very soon?
That could help the ethanol stuff as it will stop the fuel absorbing water from the air?

In Fact a friend of mine and classmate designed the new cats for Volvos that ain´t on the market yet, small cheap and recyclable and asked him ABOUT THE QUESTION.. said not a problem even with 1200hp.

But thenagain he stated it would be easier and cleaner to convert to E85...
I reminded about the water absorbtion issue and he thought also not a problem unless the boat sits a lot...

[MikeyFIN]

Turbines and diesels?



Naahhh.. Alcohol.

[Powerabout]

The absorbtion problem should go away as boats will also need to address evap emissions in 2010.
The industry could do itself a favour in the eyes of the public by using E100+ only
maybe...
( just dont tell anyone you will use 30%+ more of it)

[SKATIN]

Naahhh.. Alcohol.

That would be cool but straight Alky consumes twice as much as gas and is extremely corrosive

[MikeyFIN]

That would be cool but straight Alky consumes twice as much as gas and is extremely corrosive


I Think I know that... I got a Kinsler Alchol stack laying around....and something else.

Actually it consumes 30% more not 50%... simple chemistry also why.
Regarding corrosion ..yes It burns my throat every time I down a liter or two...

[MikeyFIN]

The absorbtion problem should go away as boats will also need to address evap emissions in 2010.
The industry could do itself a favour in the eyes of the public by using E100+ only
maybe...
( just dont tell anyone you will use 30%+ more fo it


E100 don´t work... you cant fire it up with a sparkplug when the engine is cold.
But put a glowplug in the mix... and presto!

[SKATIN]

I Think I know that... I got a Kinsler Alchol stack laying around....and something else.

Actually it consumes 30% more not 50%... simple chemistry also why.
Regarding corrosion ..yes It burns my throat every time I down a liter or two...

I'm glad you know that. Just my experience with drag motors guy.... :chillpill:

[YoungPerformance]

I guess I'll have to stick to building 49 engines a year:biggrinjester:

[MikeyFIN]

I'm glad you know that. Just my experience with drag motors guy.... :chillpill:

Well the Stack is of one.. and the Alu Donovan beneath it, your ok, no temp risen here.