everyone please take a min out of your day...

[stecz20]

one of our local lake george runs was kabashed.... take a min and write a letter tell mr young what you think about him taking away from the local shop owners in these wondeful times.....

heres an example of what has been written..... please be kind but to the point.... thanks guys....


To:'info@lgpc.state.ny.us'
Cc: 'emanuel@poststar.com'; 'tingley@poststar.com'; 'info@lakegeorgechamber.com'; 'permits@lgpc.state.ny.us'; 'mpwhite@lgpc.state.ny.us'; 'opdir@lgpc.state.ny.us'; 'pkranger@lgpc.state.ny.us'; 'info@fortwilliamhenry.com'; 'lakegeorgemirror@gmail.com'; 'lgvmayor@nycap.rr.com'; 'apmonlg@nycap.rr.com'; 'diamondcovecotgs@aol.com'; 'reserve@thesagamore.com'; 'info@schohariechamber.com'



Bruce E. Young
Chairman
Lake George Park Commission
75 Fort George Road, PO Box 749
Lake George, New York 12845


Dear Mr. Young:

It is my understanding that the Lake George Park Commission (LGPC) has filed a with the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to revoke the regatta permit for the Poker Run scheduled to take place on Lake George the weekend of October 10th 2009. I can not express enough my disappointed with the decision made by your agency.

We had planned a family trip that weekend to attend and participate in the poker run with three separate boats. My father and mother had planned to run their boat along with my sister and her fiancé who has already purchased a ticket to fly into Albany International Airport for the weekend. My brother was going to do the run in his boat along with his wife and another couple. And finally I was to use my boat along with 3 other crew members on my team. In total we would have had 12 people in my party from out of town, who now feel incredibly let down by your commission’s recent decision.

Aside from the disappointment felt by the members of my party planning to attend, it is the local economy that suffers the most. It is hard for me to put a number on what the 12 members of my party would have injected into the economy (my plan was to stay from Thursday through Monday), but I can assure you that your local business’ would have welcomed our patronage in what is typically a slow time of year.

What is most disappointing is the fact that the organizer(s) and sponsors went through a tremendous amount of trouble to put this event together and, from what I understand, have been more than compliant with the prior requests that your agency has made in order to make this a fun and, most importantly, a safe event. Make no mistake about it, safety is paramount at these events, and with strict rules to follow the speed limit behind a pace boat (as was the case with this event), there is no doubt in my mind that this event would have easily gone of without a hitch as it has in years past.

Make no mistake about it, this event WILL go on! However to the dismay of the local merchants and business owners, it will not be happening on Lake George.

Regards,

Christopher M. Aitkin
__________________
Lucky Duck

[stecz20]

heres another example...


Bruce E. Young, Chairman
Lake George Park Commission
75 Fort George Road, PO Box 749
Lake George, New York 12845

BY EMAIL

Mr. Young,

It is with great regret that I was informed yesterday that your agency had asked to revoke the Regatta Permit issued by the DEC to Poker Run Production LLC for a Poker Run to take place on the Lake weekend of October 10th 2009.

Our team and I have participated in most of these kinds of runs and their different incarnations on Lake George for the past seven years. We participate in multiple Poker Runs around the country every year and have a great time doing so.

Your decision will not affect our enjoyment of these events since I will more than likely send my boat and my crew in another location for that weekend.

A Poker Run weekend as such represents on my end expenses conservatively evaluated at $4,000 to $5,000 of which I can assure you at least 80% goes to the local establishments, namely hotels, restaurants, marinas, souvenir shops & many other local entities.

Seems your actions has deprived the local community of easily $250,000 to $350,000 in spending for what is known as a very calm weekend in your area I have been told. This conservative guess is from our group attending passed events on Lake George where easily 70-80 boats have been present from out of town.

Your area hosts Americade and a national car shows why are you singling out boaters? In these economic times I fail to see the wisdom in your Commission's decision but I am sure you have an ulterior motive that all the businesses who will suffer these losses will greatly appreciate.

As for us rest assure we will go somewhere else far from Lake George and spend those moneys anyway trying to help the country get back on track economically.

Have a great weekend on your sailboat.

Respectfully,

G.L. Harvie, President
Limestone Development LLC, Burlington, VT

[stecz20]

everyone please post your letter cause im gonna copy and send it by mail as well... thank you....

[TCEd]

I'd also send a copy to the Lake George chamber of commerce. They may have a strong opinion regarding the cancellation.
ed

[stecz20]

I'd also send a copy to the Lake George chamber of commerce. They may have a strong opinion regarding the cancellation.
ed

added to the cc list.. thanks...

[catastrophe]

Was there an explanation given for their decision.? Is there history of complaints re noise and speed?

[Slandrew]

:nopity:They suck it was a nice run call local Media!!Make sure they are not a blow boater!!Live and let live that run does not hurt anybody it helps locals out on normally slow time of year!:beatdeadhorse5:

[sellsman11]

Bruce E. Young
Chairman
Lake George Park Commission
75 Fort George Road, PO Box 749
Lake George, New York 12845


Dear Mr. Young:


I can understand your concern with any event that involves such a flamer as Stecz. However, he means no harm. He's gotten in touch with his inner self (as well as the inner self of numerous like him) and it has made such a difference in his life.



Forget the revenue that this event would bring to your area in an otherwise stagnant economic time, you should be more concerned with the added frustration that you have caused Mr. Stecz. I sincerely hope that you arent a farmer or owner of any accessible small animals. I shiver to think of the possible molestation that you have opened them up to.


Frankie McSwain
Concerned Citizen

[Expensive Date]

I sent a letter to the post star.I could not copy and past it for some reason I used the letter to the editors section.Should be up in a few days.
There is a article about it on there website the Mayor hopes we can come next year.........Uhhhh NO

[MahopacMarine]

Bruce E. Young
Chairman
Lake George Park Commission
75 Fort George Road, PO Box 749
Lake George, New York 12845


Dear Mr. Young:


I can understand your concern with any event that involves such a flamer as Stecz. However, he means no harm. He's gotten in touch with his inner self (as well as the inner self of numerous like him) and it has made such a difference in his life.



Forget the revenue that this event would bring to your area in an otherwise stagnant economic time, you should be more concerned with the added frustration that you have caused Mr. Stecz. I sincerely hope that you arent a farmer or owner of any accessible small animals. I shiver to think of the possible molestation that you have opened them up to.


Frankie McSwain
Concerned Citizen

Thanks Frankie. As usual I can see that you support the cause:sifone:

[Expensive Date]

Thanks Frankie. As usual I can see that you support the cause:sifone:

If the thought we were all gay they would have approved the permit.:26:
The first annual Gay and Lesbian Lake George poker run

[DaveP]

Bruce E. Young
Chairman
Lake George Park Commission
75 Fort George Road, PO Box 749
Lake George, New York 12845


Dear Mr. Young:

It is my understanding that the Lake George Park Commission (LGPC) has filed a with the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to revoke the regatta permit for the Poker Run scheduled to take place on Lake George the weekend of October 10th 2009. I can not express enough my disappointed with the decision made by your agency. We had planned for a great trip that weekend to attend and participate in the poker run.

Aside from the disappointment felt by all of the attendees, it is the local economy that suffers the most. It is hard for me to put a number on what the group would have injected into the economy, but I can assure you that your local business’ would have welcomed our patronage in what is typically a slow time of year.

What is most disappointing is the fact that the organizer(s) and sponsors went through a tremendous amount of trouble to put this event together and, from what I understand, have been more than compliant with the prior requests that your agency has made in order to make this a fun and, most importantly, a safe event. Make no mistake about it, safety is paramount at these events, and with strict rules to follow the speed limit behind a pace boat (as was the case with this event), there is no doubt in my mind that this event would have easily gone of without a hitch as it has in years past.

Make no mistake about it, this event WILL go on! However to the dismay of the local merchants and business owners, it will not be happening on Lake George.

Regards,
Best Regards,
Dave Patnaude
President
NJ Performance Powerboat Club
njppc@aol.com
www.njppc.com

[Gladhe8er]

Online article from the local pape, the Post Star. Will be in Tuesday's printed paper.

http://www.poststar.com/articles/2009/09/28/news/local/doc4ac145911d690670272218.txt

[MahopacMarine]

Bruce E. Young
Chairman
Lake George Park Commission
75 Fort George Road, PO Box 749
Lake George, New York 12845


Dear Mr. Young:

It is my understanding that the Lake George Park Commission (LGPC) has filed a with the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to revoke the regatta permit for the Poker Run scheduled to take place on Lake George the weekend of October 10th 2009. I can not express enough my disappointed with the decision made by your agency. We had planned for a great trip that weekend to attend and participate in the poker run.

Aside from the disappointment felt by all of the attendees, it is the local economy that suffers the most. It is hard for me to put a number on what the group would have injected into the economy, but I can assure you that your local business’ would have welcomed our patronage in what is typically a slow time of year.

What is most disappointing is the fact that the organizer(s) and sponsors went through a tremendous amount of trouble to put this event together and, from what I understand, have been more than compliant with the prior requests that your agency has made in order to make this a fun and, most importantly, a safe event. Make no mistake about it, safety is paramount at these events, and with strict rules to follow the speed limit behind a pace boat (as was the case with this event), there is no doubt in my mind that this event would have easily gone of without a hitch as it has in years past.

Make no mistake about it, this event WILL go on! However to the dismay of the local merchants and business owners, it will not be happening on Lake George.

Regards,
Best Regards,
Dave Patnaude
President
NJ Performance Powerboat Club
njppc@aol.com
www.njppc.com


Well put Dave. Thanks

[McGary911]

The article link that Gladhe8er posted. The article allows comments. So far 2 for 2 against the revocation of the permit.

[Ratickle]

It probably would not have been a very good one with a 45 mph speed limit and full noise restrictions......

We've kinda gone through the same thing here in Grand Haven. It used to be a high-performance boaters must go to destination. Now it's a stay away from or you'll get hassled destination.....

[DaveP]

Guys..............just some advice.

Find a great charity to tie the event with (Make a Wish, a Children's Hospital, etc...) and I bet you will not get your permit turned down next year.

Politicians and State lackeys don't like read in the paper "State Parks Department cancels fundraiser for __________ Foundation!"

Shore Dreams For Kids helps us buy alot of credibility with everyone here in NJ. It helps demonstrate that we are not the "Hells Angels" of the water that they originally thought we were.

[RUNNINTHERIVER]

Guys..............just some advice.

Find a great charity to tie the event with (Make a Wish, a Children's Hospital, etc...) and I bet you will not get your permit turned down next year.

Politicians and State lackeys don't like read in the paper "State Parks Department cancels fundraiser for __________ Foundation!"

Shore Dreams For Kids helps us buy alot of credibility with everyone here in NJ. It helps demonstrate that we are not the "Hells Angels" of the water that they originally thought we were.

Thats an odd use to put your charity relationship to.

How about the poker run should never have been pursued on that small lake in the first place. I'm sure it makes no difference to the public that the boat wash and heavy traffic and 40 boats exceeding the speed limit that they live with all year is A-OK because some money is going to a charity.

I dont understand how the organizer was collecting entry fees and having people making hotel reservations when they didnt even have final permission to hold the event.

Given that the speed limit is 45 mph , how much of an increase would an astute person guess they might get, 70mph???

Who wants to go on a poker run with that limit? Especially knowing you had to fight for it all summer. As if the police werent going to be all over everyone all day.

Venue should have been abandon after the first negative letter.

This topic is putting a spotlight on the topic and is precedent setting in NY.

Bad business.

[Ratickle]

I have never really thought of it that way.

If you have to fight too hard for an event, puts a bad spotlight on similar events everywhere?

I hate it when you guys make me think too hard......:sifone:

[Sean Stinson]

Guys..............just some advice.

Find a great charity to tie the event with (Make a Wish, a Children's Hospital, etc...) and I bet you will not get your permit turned down next year.

Politicians and State lackeys don't like read in the paper "State Parks Department cancels fundraiser for __________ Foundation!"

Shore Dreams For Kids helps us buy alot of credibility with everyone here in NJ. It helps demonstrate that we are not the "Hells Angels" of the water that they originally thought we were.

Dave has always been the finest organizer of events that I have come to know!!!! His advice should be well taken!! Anyway good luck next year and I hope it goes off without all the beauracratic bull$h!t.....:cuss::cuss::cuss:

Dave I hijacked your verbage and added some of my own that I sent to them via email.....

Sean

[sy goldberg]

Taking Frankie's scenario to a conclusion I can not begin to calculate the lost summer tourist dollars that would have been generated by creation and exhibiting the many new animal species caused by STECZ'S sexual escapades.:26::26:

[Ratickle]

Lake George looks to be pretty large though. 32 miles long, 3 miles wide at widest point.....

[Sean Stinson]

Taking Frankie's scenario to a conclusion I can not begin to calculate the lost summer tourist dollars that would have been generated by creation and exhibiting the many new animal species caused by STECZ'S sexual escapades.:26::26:

If you use Michigan City as an example the local economy had $6mil injected into the local businesses

[RUNNINTHERIVER]

Lake George looks to be pretty large though. 32 miles long, 3 miles wide at widest point.....


If you use Michigan City as an example the local economy had $6mil injected into the local businesses

The widest point of the lake isnt the measurement that would be brought up in the authorities argument I suspect.

Michigan City is hardly a comparison. THEY wanted the event there.

Government employees dont have the parts to make decisions without plenty of info to back it up. They do nothing more all day than cover their ass. So I bet there is a file someplace that more than justifies their position.

Using charity involvement to promote your position is ignorant.

Instead of just having yourself being scrutinized now its OK to drag the charity's good name into the argument. BS.

I am a member of a large club and I have never heard in one of our meetings, using our charity involvement to push for special exemption status with a venue or any authorities. If it ever happened , whoever made the suggestion would be sent packing.

[T2x]

If you use Michigan City as an example the local economy had $6mil injected into the local businesses

With all due respect Sean...... Horsefeathers.

I doubt if an event like that (20-30 boats with, at most, $2,000-$5,000 of local spending each, plus a limited number of "out of town "fans")added even $1 million to the local economy.

$6 million sounds like something SBI pulled out of its *ss.


T2x

[T2x]

The widest point of the lake isnt the measurement that would be brought up in the authorities argument I suspect.

Michigan City is hardly a comparison. THEY wanted the event there.

Government employees dont have the parts to make decisions without plenty of info to back it up. They do nothing more all day than cover their ass. So I bet there is a file someplace that more than justifies their position.

Using charity involvement to promote your position is ignorant.

Instead of just having yourself being scrutinized now its OK to drag the charity's good name into the argument. BS.

I am a member of a large club and I have never heard in one of our meetings, using our charity involvement to push for special exemption status with a venue or any authorities. If it ever happened , whoever made the suggestion would be sent packing.


I think you may be misinterpreting Dave's suggestion. He was not dragging the charity into anything. He was merely suggesting that a charity be designated as a recipient for whatever proceeds might develop..... and, in so doing, quiet the clamor from the opposing forces (sailboaters). Dave has had great success because of his organization's generosity and his credibility. Perhaps your group could learn a thing or three from him. On the other hand, hurling bricks across the border at him might unleash the power of the Oklahoma National Guard, after they get done straightening out Quebec. :D

T2x

[Sean Stinson]

With all due respect Sean...... Horsefeathers.

I doubt if an event like that (20-30 boats with, at most, $2,000-$5,000 of local spending each, plus a limited number of "out of town "fans")added even $1 million to the local economy.

$6 million sounds like something SBI pulled out of its *ss.


T2x

Thats how I felt at first.....But I asked some of the locals there and they seem to back up the story so.....

[Gladhe8er]

Thats an odd use to put your charity relationship to.

How about the poker run should never have been pursued on that small lake in the first place. I'm sure it makes no difference to the public that the boat wash and heavy traffic and 40 boats exceeding the speed limit that they live with all year is A-OK because some money is going to a charity.

I dont understand how the organizer was collecting entry fees and having people making hotel reservations when they didnt even have final permission to hold the event.

Given that the speed limit is 45 mph , how much of an increase would an astute person guess they might get, 70mph???

Who wants to go on a poker run with that limit? Especially knowing you had to fight for it all summer. As if the police werent going to be all over everyone all day.

Venue should have been abandon after the first negative letter.

This topic is putting a spotlight on the topic and is precedent setting in NY.

Bad business.

The lake is not "small." It is 32 miles long and the course would have covered about 70 miles, which is about average for all the poker runs I have been on. The lake is somewhat narrow so that is why there were going to be groups of 20-25 boats. When we ran this 2 years ago speeds got up to about 60 behind a pace boat, but I would say it was more fun than runs when you can run wide open because you are running side by side with 20 other boats. When you have boats running balls to the wall, everyone gets spread out. Don't get me wrong, I like wringing the boat out sometimes, but I, nor anyone else complained 2 years ago when we had the pace boat led run. BTW, 2 years ago at this run, not one boat got in trouble with the police because of how everything was thought out. It was going to be the same or better this year.

[Ratickle]

With all due respect Sean...... Horsefeathers.

I doubt if an event like that (20-30 boats with, at most, $2,000-$5,000 of local spending each, plus a limited number of "out of town "fans")added even $1 million to the local economy.

$6 million sounds like something SBI pulled out of its *ss.


T2x

In this case he's right Rich. The Michigan City Chamber had an independant survey done for their members. Results were 80,000 additional people and $6 million. I'll find it, I've seen it.

[Ratickle]

The lake is not "small." It is 32 miles long and the course would have covered about 70 miles, which is about average for all the poker runs I have been on. The lake is somewhat narrow so that is why there were going to be groups of 20-25 boats. When we ran this 2 years ago speeds got up to about 60 behind a pace boat, but I would say it was more fun than runs when you can run wide open because you are running side by side with 20 other boats. When you have boats running balls to the wall, everyone gets spread out. Don't get me wrong, I like wringing the boat out sometimes, but I, nor anyone else complained 2 years ago when we had the pace boat led run. BTW, 2 years ago at this run, not one boat got in trouble with the police because of how everything was thought out. It was going to be the same or better this year.

Thanks, nice to know.

[RUNNINTHERIVER]

I think you may be misinterpreting Dave's suggestion. He was not dragging the charity into anything. He was merely suggesting that a charity be designated as a recipient for whatever proceeds might develop..... and, in so doing, quiet the clamor from the opposing forces (sailboaters). Dave has had great success because of his organization's generosity and his credibility. Perhaps your group could learn a thing or three from him. On the other hand, hurling bricks across the border at him might unleash the power of the Oklahoma National Guard, after they get done straightening out Quebec. :D

T2x

Perhaps our club doesnt need any advice. We give to charity and would match any clubs gift giving anywhere. Our last event with 30 entrants raised 23k.

But this is hijacking someones thread and isnt the issue.

Running 20 boats abreast up a lake that doesnt want you and justifying it by using charity status was the point.

Anyway I've said my piece. As Chris said back a few posts. Boat where you are wanted.

[Ratickle]

With all due respect Sean...... Horsefeathers.

I doubt if an event like that (20-30 boats with, at most, $2,000-$5,000 of local spending each, plus a limited number of "out of town "fans")added even $1 million to the local economy.

$6 million sounds like something SBI pulled out of its *ss.


T2x

Here's the newspaper article, I haven't found the Chamber Study yet that is quoted here, but I've seen it.

MICHIGAN CITY - The La Porte County Convention and Visitors Bureau announced Monday that the inaugural 2009 Great Lakes Grand Prix offshore powerboat race injected more than $6 million into the local economy.

A study commissioned by the La Porte County CVB showed that the 80,000-plus spectators who attended the three-day event in early August injected nearly $5 million into the local economy simply through ancillary expenditures like dining and shopping. Add in gaming and lodging revenues and the total rises above $6 million, according to a statement from the bureau.

"We couldn't be happier at the results of this study. The economic impact on Michigan City and La Porte County as a whole is wonderful," La Porte County CVB Executive Director Jack Arnett said. "We knew this event would be huge for the area and we're very glad that assumption was proven through this study."

CVB officials also noted that several out-of-town visitors in the area for the boat race had to secure lodging in Porter and St. Joseph counties in Indiana, and in Berrien County, Mich., as hotel rooms in La Porte County booked full by mid-week. Spectators jammed Washington Park all weekend, causing police to close off traffic on Pine Street between U.S. 12 and Washington Park by 10:30 a.m. Sunday.

"So many of the racers and race officials told us that in all their years in this sport, they've never seen such huge crowds at a first-time event and had never seen so many spectator boats at any event," CVB Sports Development Manager Jason Miller said. "They were really impressed with Michigan City, the people, the facility and race site."

More than 500 spectator boats lined up on the outside of the race course Sunday, lining the back stretch of the course from the Michigan City East Pier Lighthouse to Stop 20.

The La Porte County CVB thanked the Michigan City Parks Department, Michigan City Port Authority, Michigan City Police Department, Michigan City Fire Department and Emergency Management volunteers for their hard work and dedication to the event, as well as Michigan City Mayor Chuck Oberlie and Joe Doyle and the Michigan City Summer Festival Committee.

[Tom A.]

Perhaps our club doesnt need any advice. We give to charity and would match any clubs gift giving anywhere. Our last event with 30 entrants raised 23k.

But this is hijacking someones thread and isnt the issue.

Running 20 boats abreast up a lake that doesnt want you and justifying it by using charity status was the point.

Anyway I've said my piece. As Chris said back a few posts. Boat where you are wanted.

Ok, let me pose this to you.
If we do not keep "fighting" for the areas we love to boat in, eventually we will lose all the areas worth boating in. Contrary to what a few extremist groups (they usually being the loudest) would like people to believe, we as a community are welcome and wanted in these areas. We have had and will continue to have issues throughout the US and Canada. In NJ we proved time and time again that there was nothing wrong with what we were doing. All it takes is a couple of people who do not like our sport who have the right connections and things like this happen. They don't need a big file full of evidence to back it up.
In the last few years, there were proposals to put a speed limit on Barnegat Bay. The local yacht clubs were a major force behind this. We as a powerboat club went to the meetings and defended our right to boat safely at speed and explained that the enforcement of existing laws and no-wake zones was already overburdened. A slide show of pictures was then shown of non performance boats, including the yacht club tenders and support boats, running on plane through designated no-wake zones.
As for the comments on the charity, Dave was in no means implying using a charity as an excuse to get what they wanted. The anti-boating groups use underhanded tactics to get what they want and putting a positive backing to what we are doing not only makes us look better but helps worth while organizations. It creates a win/win situation for everyone.

Tom

[Otis311]

Dave, I have done this in the past...It wouldnt have changed the LGPC decision. They are a bunch of dickheads that have full power over the lake and dont answer to anyone

[Chris]

If 80K people showed up in MI City, they disguised themselves very well.

[T2x]

In this case he's right Rich. The Michigan City Chamber had an independant survey done for their members. Results were 80,000 additional people and $6 million. I'll find it, I've seen it.

80,000 people????????????????????????? For an offshore race????????????

In Indiana??????????????????????????

What does the Indy 500 draw according to the same "survey" people....... 6 billion?

Somebody "cooked" those books.

T2x

[T2x]

Perhaps our club doesnt need any advice. We give to charity and would match any clubs gift giving anywhere. Our last event with 30 entrants raised 23k.

But this is hijacking someones thread and isnt the issue.

Running 20 boats abreast up a lake that doesnt want you and justifying it by using charity status was the point.

Anyway I've said my piece. As Chris said back a few posts. Boat where you are wanted.


With that said I will alert the Commander of the Oklahoma National Guard that he does not have to figure out where Ontario is...... after he gets out of the Jersey swamps.

T2x

[RUNNINTHERIVER]

Ok, let me pose this to you.
If we do not keep "fighting" for the areas we love to boat in, eventually we will lose all the areas worth boating in. Contrary to what a few extremist groups (they usually being the loudest) would like people to believe, we as a community are welcome and wanted in these areas. We have had and will continue to have issues throughout the US and Canada. In NJ we proved time and time again that there was nothing wrong with what we were doing. All it takes is a couple of people who do not like our sport who have the right connections and things like this happen. They don't need a big file full of evidence to back it up.
In the last few years, there were proposals to put a speed limit on Barnegat Bay. The local yacht clubs were a major force behind this. We as a powerboat club went to the meetings and defended our right to boat safely at speed and explained that the enforcement of existing laws and no-wake zones was already overburdened. A slide show of pictures was then shown of non performance boats, including the yacht club tenders and support boats, running on plane through designated no-wake zones.
As for the comments on the charity, Dave was in no means implying using a charity as an excuse to get what they wanted. The anti-boating groups use underhanded tactics to get what they want and putting a positive backing to what we are doing not only makes us look better but helps worth while organizations. It creates a win/win situation for everyone.

Tom


Dave, I have done this in the past...It wouldnt have changed the LGPC decision. They are a bunch of dickheads that have full power over the lake and dont answer to anyone

Second point first.

If that is true then why fight to go where you arent wanted or appreciated.

First Point

How old is the 45mph speed limit ? Since it was inflicted on the people that are on the lake all the time, and given the suggestion that the people on the lake have lots of power, one can conclude that they want a 45mph limit for a reason.

They live with it always.

So why go there??

A 70 mile poker run is 2/3 of a typical poker run.

Why not fight a fight you can win.

The organizers knew all this months ago and wasted their efforts.

Who wants to be anywhere uninvited anyway?

The people on that lake arent anti boating, its the kind of boating they have an issue with.

And I go back to my point that the peeps that denied this have a log of reasons for denying the application. They have their ass covered 10 times over to defend their position to those hotels, bars etc. that would challenge them.

[Big Time]

I cc'd King Neptune's (the local establishment that went out of their way to put together a nice party for us) on my e-mail sent to the LGPC. This is the response I got:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Aitkin:

On behalf of King Neptune’s Pub in Lake George, I want to thank you for copying us on your email to Mr. Young of the Lake George Park Commission. We appreciate you taking the time to so eloquently put into words what I’m sure many people are feeling. It is definitely a loss for businesses in Lake George but more so the participants and the community that would have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the boats.

We were hoping this would be a successful annual event and while we hope this will take place in Lake George in the future, we understand and share your doubt. Should the powers that be see fit to reverse themselves in the years to come, we hope you and your family will try again to visit beautiful Lake George.


Sincerely,

Kevin D. Griswold

Director of Marketing & Sales
King Neptune's Pub · Shoreline Cruises · Shoreline Restaurant
2 Kurosaka Lane
Lake George, NY 12845
(518) 668-4644 or (888) LG-BOATS
Fax: (518) 668-3882
Kevin@kingneptunespub.com | www.kingneptunespub.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not everyone that lives there doesn't want us to come....

[Ratickle]

If 80K people showed up in MI City, they disguised themselves very well.


80,000 people????????????????????????? For an offshore race????????????

In Indiana??????????????????????????

What does the Indy 500 draw according to the same "survey" people....... 6 billion?

Somebody "cooked" those books.

T2x


It was an independant study done for the city. Cooked, maybe - don't know why they would though. My guess was 30,000 people at the event watching the actual race though....

Chris, supposedly the new casino tower was sold out????

[DaveP]

Thats an odd use to put your charity relationship to.

Odd use????????????

It's called......
1) Doing something good (raising money for a charity)
2) Creating an excellent public relations tool

Whats wrong with promoting your organizations good deeds?

[DaveP]

Running 20 boats abreast up a lake that doesnt want you and justifying it by using charity status was the point.

Have you been to the Lake George Event? Are you sure they run 20 boats abreast up the Lake?

Before you start throwing around the "ignorant" word I would get EDUCATED on how the event is run.

[DaveP]

Second point first.
If that is true then why fight to go where you arent wanted or appreciated.


If we followed that school of thought the French would be speaking German and the swastika would be on France's flag :sifone:

[Dude! Sweet!]

It's my recollection that there are a signrificant number of "offshore style" boats that call Lake George home. Saris Racing engines and the performance shop that's affiliated with them for example. I believe there are also several 24 and 28 Panteras that live on or near the lake.

[Gladhe8er]

It's my recollection that there are a signrificant number of "offshore style" boats that call Lake George home. Saris Racing engines and the performance shop that's affiliated with them for example. I believe there are also several 24 and 28 Panteras that live on or near the lake.

Yes this is true. There are still some high performance guys up there. Most run mufflers and watch the speed though. Performance Marine/Saris Racing were one of the main sponsors for this event. The north end of the lake is less populated and less travelled so there is less ball busting going on up there. It's bad overall though. I have been on 3 boats kicked off the lake and fined for noise...and we were idling each time!

[Gladhe8er]

[QUOTE=DaveP;328209]Have you been to the Lake George Event? Are you sure they run 20 boats abreast up the Lake?

QUOTE]

"Runnin'" was probably referring to my earlier comment about groups of 20 boats running together. I would say there were 3-4 "rows" of 5-6 boats. Some guys like to run behind for whatever reason.

[Big Time]

It's my recollection that there are a signrificant number of "offshore style" boats that call Lake George home. Saris Racing engines and the performance shop that's affiliated with them for example. I believe there are also several 24 and 28 Panteras that live on or near the lake.


Donzi, Cigarrette, Fountain, Baja, Skater, and PowerPlay also come to mind. Most are running mufflers which is no doubt the way to go. I'm all for following the local laws (speed limit, no wake zones) and I know the organizers were too! And honestly, this run is such a great time because of the people in attendance and the huge diversity in the type of boat you see. I think we would have seen everything from 18 Ft Donzi's to a full canopy MTI and everything inbetween!!!

I am just disappointed.

[Bobcat]

back in 2002 the city of key West was trying to run the motorcycle poker run(12 million in revenue) out of town with all kinds of new noise laws and parking tickets, then we had four hurricanes in 2004 and four more in 2005, the "other" much sought after tourists quit coming....... now the M/C poker run is welcome with open arms , I think they all got hand jobs in this years run ( I'm glad I don't work for the city:ack2:)

on the same thought I was wondering if a lot of the complainers would not mind so much if some of the establishments catering to the poker would go out of business also.

[Carguy]

http://poststar.com/articles/2009/09/29/news/local/doc4ac145911d690670272218.txt

[T2x]

It was an independant study done for the city. Cooked, maybe - don't know why they would though. My guess was 30,000 people at the event watching the actual race though....

Chris, supposedly the new casino tower was sold out????

In years past I have seen crowds on a beach at numerous race sites enjoying the sun and sand while being unknowingly counted as "spectators and fans". Typically these people would have been there anyway....even without a race. I am interested in the spectator fleet comment. There have been many incidences where people have que'ed up to watch a race in their boats and actually were there only for that reason. I have no problem with a count of 30,000 (including spectator boats)...... but how many of the boats returned to their home harbors afterward and never spent a nickle locally?

If the event actually took in that kind of revenue ($6 million) for the local merchants..... John needs to raise his price next year.


T2x

[Ratickle]

If the event actually took in that kind of revenue ($6 million) for the local merchants..... John needs to raise his price next year.


T2x

I was thinking it was odd they published that number.....:sifone:

[Ratickle]

The lake is not "small." It is 32 miles long and the course would have covered about 70 miles, which is about average for all the poker runs I have been on. The lake is somewhat narrow so that is why there were going to be groups of 20-25 boats. When we ran this 2 years ago speeds got up to about 60 behind a pace boat, but I would say it was more fun than runs when you can run wide open because you are running side by side with 20 other boats. When you have boats running balls to the wall, everyone gets spread out. Don't get me wrong, I like wringing the boat out sometimes, but I, nor anyone else complained 2 years ago when we had the pace boat led run. BTW, 2 years ago at this run, not one boat got in trouble with the police because of how everything was thought out. It was going to be the same or better this year.

He was referring to this I'm sure. That's the way I read it also.

[Scotty B]

It was an independant study done for the city. Cooked, maybe - don't know why they would though. My guess was 30,000 people at the event watching the actual race though....

Chris, supposedly the new casino tower was sold out????

I did my part, ran my credit card up to 1500 for food and drink, stayed in the casino for 4 nights and left a couple thousand at the blackjack table

[Dude! Sweet!]

Yes this is true. There are still some high performance guys up there. Most run mufflers and watch the speed though. Performance Marine/Saris Racing were one of the main sponsors for this event. The north end of the lake is less populated and less travelled so there is less ball busting going on up there. It's bad overall though. I have been on 3 boats kicked off the lake and fined for noise...and we were idling each time!

So the lake is mostly just reserved for drowning elderly tourists in clapped out tour boats these days?

[RUNNINTHERIVER]

Odd use????????????

It's called......
1) Doing something good (raising money for a charity)
2) Creating an excellent public relations tool

Whats wrong with promoting your organizations good deeds?

I can read and understand english and after reading the above, as well as your advice note to the organizers I understand your position.

But there is a vast difference between giving to charity for the right reason as opposed to giving to charity to make yourself look good and/or to get accomadations that you wouldnt otherwise recieve.

Everyone knows who you are and what you do. Its the way you worded it.

Re your buddy there that says he's wasting his time. Tell him I didnt invite him into the conversation, but since he brought up other poker runs I have had a problem with we might as well get into it.

The value of all our boats and the financial sustainability of those people that earn their living from our sport rely on all of us using our boats as much as possible.
The existence of poker runs is very important to all that math.

So if poker runs being well run and staying strong is important to us all it follows that it upsets me to see event organizers getting into pizzing contests with authorities for no reason.
It also bothers me to see PRA advertising drag racing at the 1000 islands event when its common knowledge that the police dont even want the poker run there at all. At the drivers meeting in 2008 the head policeman walked to the front of the room and said straight out that they did not want us there.
In 2009 PRA announces drag racing. For years it has been said loud and clear we are not racing in these public waters.

I ***** in support of the math, so your friend understands.

Regarding your comment about going someplace uninvited and if not the french flag would have a swastika, I agree. Thanks for joining us and Britain who were already there.

[cigdaze]

I don't get it...is $6 million really that inconceivable?...Really?

When I go see a race, I'll typically spend an average of 200 bucks a night on hotel, and easily 150 bucks a day eating, drinking, etc., and If I drive, I'll even fill up before I leave. With just lodging and food/drink, I'll spend 1000-1200 bucks on a weekend trip (Fri/Sat/Sun).

$6M / 1000 = 6000

Is is that hard to believe that ~6000 people came for the weekend, give or take?

Now, if you say 30,000 showed up, and even if only 10,000 did at least one night in town, that figure becomes pretty realistic.

[Ratickle]

I did my part, ran my credit card up to 1500 for food and drink, stayed in the casino for 4 nights and left a couple thousand at the blackjack table

Congrats. What did your promotion group estimate the crowd at? It was certainly well watched...

[Ratickle]

I don't get it...is $6 million really that inconceivable?...Really?

When I go see a race, I'll typically spend an average of 200 bucks a night on hotel, and easily 150 bucks a day eating, drinking, etc., and If I drive, I'll even fill up before I leave. With just lodging and food/drink, I'll spend 1000-1200 bucks on a weekend trip (Fri/Sat/Sun).

$6M / 1000 = 6000

Is is that hard to believe that ~6000 people came for the weekend, give or take?

Now, if you say 30,000 showed up, and even if only 10,000 did at least one night in town, that figure becomes pretty realistic.

We spent over that in LOTO this weekend...

[Ratickle]

So the lake is mostly just reserved for drowning elderly tourists in clapped out tour boats these days?

I forgot about that.....:ack2:

[Ratickle]

I must admit I am considering River's point very closely. For instance, up here. Grand HAven is making it difficult on performance boaters. Some of the guys have moved their boats to other places such as here in Holland, even though they are based out of Grand Haven.

If we were to push for another run or race, would a place like Michigan City where the SBI race was well received by the city and its mangement be the place to go instead of battling the current regime in Grand Haven?????? You'd be welcomed, appreciated, raise more money for charity, get better participation, attract better publicity, etc., etc.

Does that possibly serve our interests better for the long run??????

Or, do we push back, fight for our rights, and attract possible bad publicity to be used against us elsewhere. It is a very legit discussion .....

[Tom A.]

Runnin,
I agree with you on the safety and bad press part of this. Safety is by far my number one concern and all of the events I participate in. I was also at the 2008 1000 Islands drivers meeting and heard the same thing. I retracted my previous post enlight of looking at everything. I still maintain that we need to fight against unjust rules and regulations that are squeezing our sport. If we are self regulating (which we are), focusing on safety first, and working in co-operation with the local authorities, there is no reason we should be banned from doing events like this.
The more the anti-powerboat groups squeeze, the less areas we will have to play. If they are using dirty tactics to do it, then we have to go out of our way to show the good we are doing.
Imagine putting a 30 mph limit through the whole 1000 Islands and along the St. Lawrence Shipping Channel? If we don't stand up for our rights, we will loose them.

[Gladhe8er]

My letter to the morons in Lake George:

Bruce E. Young
Chairman
Lake George Park Commission
75 Fort George Road, PO Box 749
Lake George, New York 12845

Dear Mr. Young,

I know I am not the first and am confident that I will not be the last to write to you expressing the disappointment over the cancellation of this event. My brother already wrote to you about how my family had 3 boats and 12 people lined up to attend this event including my sister’s fiancé who is flying in from Jackson, MS for what was supposed to be his first ride on a high performance powerboat. I guess he will have to wait until next year.

My issue is not so much that you are not allowing this event to happen; it is that you sought to revoke the approved permit 2 weeks before the event was scheduled to occur. If you had shot down the poker run organizers back in June, I’m sure there would have been some minor flack and some “that sucks” comments, but at least people would not have booked their schedules and planned a long weekend on beautiful Lake George. Also, as of today I hear that some people are having a hard time getting their deposits back from some of the hotels up there. That is the last thing anyone wants to deal with at this point.

I am no stranger to Lake George. My family has had a house 5 miles outside of town since the 1970’s and I spend 40-50 nights a year up there mostly in the winter because my boat is not welcome on Lake George, which is fine with me…I boat in Long Island Sound and do not have to worry about noise limits, speed limits, trailering time/expenses, launch passes, season permits, etc. My point is I have seen what is happening up there over the last 10 years as far as the economy goes. I went to a college in Albany which is less than an hour away and my friends and I would head up there from time to time to check out the scene in the late 90’s/early 2000’s. Hotels were sold out and there were $20 covers at some bars with lines around the corner. If a bar in Lake George tried to charge that today, forget it…they would be closed in a month and I do not see many “No Vacancy” signs up either. I do not think that the economy is doing so well that you can turn away the amount of money that this poker run would have brought into the local economy in the form of hotel rooms, fuel, meals, nightlife, souvenirs and apparel.

I know that safety was one of the main reasons for the cancellation. First of all, the speed limit was never raised from 45 MPH, so we were going to abide by that. Secondly, we all know what we are doing behind the wheel of a performance boat. I have no doubt in my mind that we would have been safer as a group than the people who go to Lake George and rent boat. I still can not believe that NYS does not make people get a boating license like they do here in Connecticut. The things I have seen rental boats do in that lake over the years boggles my mind. The LGPC should be more concerned with those people.

Again, this is very disappointing. It is just another incident that is going to push people away from Lake George and leave a bad taste in their mouth.

Submitted respectfully,

Peter Aitkin Jr.

Pete Aitkin
Director, Client Development

21 River Road Suite 2000
Wilton, CT 06897

[Gladhe8er]

So the lake is mostly just reserved for drowning elderly tourists in clapped out tour boats these days?

Can you imagine if that happenned during a poker run on Lake George? I believe that accident was in October of 05. I started going to these runs in October of 06. That boat was overloaded with not enough staff on board.

[catastrophe]

I must admit I am considering River's point very closely. For instance, up here. Grand HAven is making it difficult on performance boaters. Some of the guys have moved their boats to other places such as here in Holland, even though they are based out of Grand Haven.

If we were to push for another run or race, would a place like Michigan City where the SBI race was well received by the city and its mangement be the place to go instead of battling the current regime in Grand Haven?????? You'd be welcomed, appreciated, raise more money for charity, get better participation, attract better publicity, etc., etc.

Does that possibly serve our interests better for the long run??????

Or, do we push back, fight for our rights, and attract possible bad publicity to be used against us elsewhere. It is a very legit discussion .....

You go where you are welcome.
The crowd that wants you become your cheerleaders.

They gladly help you raise money, they gladly help us fight the good fight against authorities.

Out of laziness and good business its the thing to do.

These are our happy times and they should stay that way. Who wants to be somewhere where they arent wanted?Fighting those people is grief and time wasted. There are lots of proper venues to enjoy our sport in and pushing to be elsewhere is very bad business for the boaters, their sponsors, their repair shops , their manufacturers and most importantly the charities that rely on their success and overall sustainability.

[Chris]

It was an independant study done for the city. Cooked, maybe - don't know why they would though. My guess was 30,000 people at the event watching the actual race though....

Chris, supposedly the new casino tower was sold out????

We had no problems walking into anything at the casino and getting seated. The casino itself was very light on people. Don't know if they sold the rooms out but most of the people there on Saturday didn't look like your typical boating crowd. Alot of people very dressed up- like wedding dressed up. You ever bring a suit to a race?

I was back and forth throughout the weekend- never took more than 5 minutes to get into the pits area- and there's just the one access road.

[catastrophe]

Nick is using the right math.