Mercury Marine To Close And Move All Production From Fond du Lac, Wisconsin......

[gerritm]

You ever notice that when the union bigwigs negotiate these horseship deals the only ones that suffer are the workers that lose thier jobs. Maybe it's time for the union officials to have some steak in the game. Their negotiations go sour, they lose their jobs right along with the workers. I never understood that. They just move on to screw up the next union job.

[C_Spray]

..I worked for 12 years for a UAW company. Originally spun off GM by Roger Penske in the early 90s...

That would be Detroit Diesel? RP told me about a union negotiation where the union representative asked for a bonus for perfect attendance. RP told him "I thought that I was already paying everyone to come to work every day."

The union rep said nothing for a few seconds, then moved on to the next subject....

[MacGyver]

RP told him "I though that I was already paying everyone to come to work every day."

The union rep said nothing for a few seconds, then moved on to the next subject....

Roger Penske-1, Union rep-0.

[Matt Trulio]

There was a time when unions were absolutely essential in this country. That time has passed. And trust me, I have no faith in "big business" to do the right thing. History has shown, from labor policy to environmental policy, that big business only does the right thing when it is dragged kicking and screaming to it.

Unless doing the right thing is profitable. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But what unions have done, to some extent, is make profitability next to impossible.

On the flip side ... How do you guys feel about CEOs who get who huge bonuses when their companies lose money year after year? Greed, my friends, is greed, and everyone seems to have a reason why his big paycheck is really what he deserves (probably less) but yours or mine is simply greed.

As Ratickle said, there have been (always will be) abuses on both sides, labor and ownership. But at this moment in time, labor is out of control.

[Ratickle]

The biggest problem I see with labor is the "National" giant unions. It used to be, when a union started, the local economy, local job market, etc. dictated the negotiations between thr company and the workers.

They all got together, said this is where we're at, things were discussed, a contract was worked out that was usually, (not always), a decent comprimise for all involved.

Now, some dumbazz in Washington or New York tells a worker in Georgia he has to go on strike because the workers in Michigan are pizzed off at the management there and want more money or guaranteed wages even if they aren't working.

So, an engine assembling plant in some state other than where the beef is at shuts down 20 factories around the country, the employees at every facility other than the one that went on strike get unemployment compensation at the tax payers expense, and the workers at the one plant on strike get paid out of the union strike fund.

So, management settles for some rediculous demand because they can't have 20 facilities shut down, and the union wonders why every one of their jobs goes to an overseas company or non-union facility in a right-to-work state.

Then, the union employees lose their job and the union organizers and and employees keep theirs and go on to somewhere else and promise more money for less work if you pay them. Sweet gig.

[Ratickle]

On the flip side ... How do you guys feel about CEOs who get who huge bonuses when their companies lose money year after year? Greed, my friends, is greed, and everyone seems to have a reason why his big paycheck is really what he deserves (probably less) but yours or mine is simply greed.

Don't know how that ever happened, the only way I can figure it out is they model themselves after politicians and lawyers. Get paid no matter how bad you suck.....

I think I read where the highest paid CEO in America this year managed his company so well it lost 80% of it's value?

[MarylandMark]

[MacGyver]

[db71]

I like the fact that a UAW worker not only wants more (I know they lost this time kind of but only example I could think of) they then want discounts when they buy there cars I think Ford employees get like 4 of the largest discount per year (maybe 2) Lets just say that is $3000 a vehicle average that is $12,000 an employee every year or two. They also have a few more discounts at a leesor value I think.

So in recap I want to charge you as much as possible for my services but want you to provide me with your product at cost.

If you ask a union guy it is the big companies that want to cut costs so they put more in there pocket.

If you ask me it is the consumer or end user wants so much of a discount that the only way to stay profitable is to cut costs or go out of business (which many have).

So now maybe all the union people should go to the car dealership, airline, amtrak, grocery store, mercury dealer, lumber yard, acountant (office buildings which are built mostly union) and everything else that is shipped or built and say they are willing to pay 20% more than what the asking price for that product to help save there jobs then they should not have a leg to stand on.

So the question for union people is are the big companies greedy or are they the ones who want "more for less".

Sorry about the rant but I seem to have this discussion every week with someone here that is losing or lost their job. I used to live in St louis and that was even worse everyone there is losing their job.

[Scarab KV]

I like the fact that a UAW worker not only wants more (I know they lost this time kind of but only example I could think of) they then want discounts when they buy there cars I think Ford employees get like 4 of the largest discount per year (maybe 2) Lets just say that is $3000 a vehicle average that is $12,000 an employee every year or two. They also have a few more discounts at a leesor value I think.

If I remember right, didn't family members also got the discount through GM?

[db71]

Yeah they all have it I just knew the ford situation first hand. I do not know but would assume mercury gives discounts to employees also but who knows. The theory behind it is so they buy the products they make (which they should do anyway). There are old school union employees who do it right but there are probably 1000 to 1 of the ones that take pride in what they make. And they are retiring daily.


I had a conversation with a ford employee when they closed the St Louis plant his options where like $60,000 (a years salary with benifits) and they would pay for a 4 year degree. Or I think like $90,000 complete buyout (2 years salary without benifits) now I am not exact on the numbers it was 3 years ago.

But I will say he was at a loss I said why don't you take the cash and school he said well I have to get certain grades and other things of that sort (you had to pass the classes at a certain level or they would not pay for the class) I said then take the $90,000 and start a business he was like well if it fails I have nothing.

Basically long story short it was the big mean companies fault he was a nice guy but had no actual skills besides put bolt in hole and his ability to think for himself was non existant. He had looked at jobs and he was looking at working at Subway.

I know someone who worked at a grocery store for 10 years she made to much so they fired her ($12.00hr) and she barely got her unemployment of $250 a week. I really have a hard time feeling for this guy but to hear him tell it he had it bad.

[fastlane40]

All i want is an XR upper.:-(
Posted in wanted section.

[rschap1]

That would be Detroit Diesel? .

A supplier to Detroit Diesel. When Penske owned it, it was Diesel Technology Company. Later became Robert Bosch Fuel Systems when they bought it from him.

[Birdog]

You all do understand that these "Press Releases" come from the suits at Corporate dont you ?...,They are not going to mention the $s and perks they all get...When Iacocca asked for cutbacks he started at the TOP and worked down...

[Ratickle]

You all do understand that these "Press Releases" come from the suits at Corporate dont you ?...,They are not going to mention the $s and perks they all get...When Iacocca asked for cutbacks he started at the TOP and worked down...

Do not disagree, there is plenty of blame to go around. Probably number 1 starts with our government. The example they set bleeds down into the productive people, and then they become less productive.

[T2x]

There was a time when unions were absolutely essential in this country. That time has passed. And trust me, I have no faith in "big business" to do the right thing. History has shown, from labor policy to environmental policy, that big business only does the right thing when it is dragged kicking and screaming to it.

Unless doing the right thing is profitable. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But what unions have done, to some extent, is make profitability next to impossible.

On the flip side ... How do you guys feel about CEOs who get who huge bonuses when their companies lose money year after year? Greed, my friends, is greed, and everyone seems to have a reason why his big paycheck is really what he deserves (probably less) but yours or mine is simply greed.

As Ratickle said, there have been (always will be) abuses on both sides, labor and ownership. But at this moment in time, labor is out of control.

As someone who has had his life threatened by the old Teamster thugs, I know first hand how corrupt and worthless the unions are for their constituents. I applaud Mercury for taking a tough stand. I hope they don't blink due to "pressure from above". On the other hand I hope the loyal, hardworking, Fox River Valley Mercury employees do not wind up jobless. The Company has a long and legendary tradition and deserves better than an inglorious end in Oklahoma.

You know it's a funny thing. Most of the overpaid CEO's, etc seem to be cut from the same fabric. These are the guys with close political ties in DC who are in the same rocking chair as the power brokers they back. Some of this may have to do with unholy alliances forced on public companies via strict "government" and SEC supervision, union contract negotiations ( and related liberal "labor" PR impressions...... you scratch my back......). Out here in the "real" business world you are rewarded or penalized for performance and that is true capitalism. The other stuff between the politicians, the government agencies, the unions, and the high level financiers is rapidly becoming uber socialism. If you check out the marxist rantings coming out of George Soros, Warren Buffett, and Bill Gates, one gets the feeling that they are more into power than performance, and believers in extreme social reform, to the extent that they sound like labor leaders. This makes them the darlings of the networks and the Pelosi, Obama, Frank, Reid "circle of trust".

Just my .02, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that there are forces at play in the boardrooms of high finance that the hard working, entrepeneurial taxpayer will never comprehend.

T2x

[Ratickle]

Here's how out of touch they are. They haven't a clue how the real world works. 30 years and out? Seems reeasonable to those who put in 8 or 10 years and get these kind of pensions, not to mention the other huge perks, for the rest of their lives and their spouses lives.


Former Vice President Al Gore’s initial pension in 2001 was approximately $94,810, NTU estimates. Cost of living adjustments bring Gore’s 2009 benefit up to $120,378.

Vice President Dick Cheney will weather the bear market with a pension worth an estimated $132,451 per year. His pension, based on service as a Representative, Vice President, and other executive branch posts, will also be regularly adjusted for the cost of living.

President Bush will get a $196,700 pension this year.

[T2x]

Here's how out of touch they are. They haven't a clue how the real world works. 30 years and out? Seems reeasonable to those who put in 8 or 10 years and get these kind of pensions, not to mention the other huge perks, for the rest of their lives and their spouses lives.


Former Vice President Al Gore’s initial pension in 2001 was approximately $94,810, NTU estimates. Cost of living adjustments bring Gore’s 2009 benefit up to $120,378.

Vice President Dick Cheney will weather the bear market with a pension worth an estimated $132,451 per year. His pension, based on service as a Representative, Vice President, and other executive branch posts, will also be regularly adjusted for the cost of living.

President Bush will get a $196,700 pension this year.

Frankly, that's chicken feed for any of those guys. Their "coupons" are worth far more.

[Ratickle]

Frankly, that's chicken feed for any of those guys. Their "coupons" are worth far more.

I know, I was trying to point out their basis for reference though. What Clinton got from the Chinese as soon as his term was over makes me want to puke. And Obama has already committed for doing a book as soon as he leaves office. Not to mention his wife's.

The deals the politicians worked out with the businesses, and governments, around the world is what caused this recession/depression in my opinion. That is why I believe they are the most culpable, but they are not held acountable. And maybe can't be with the way they pass laws and enforce laws.

[T2x]

The problem with elections is that every time they hold one...a politician wins. This says an awful lot about the lack of curiosity, and knowledge of the American voter.