Pensions used to be compensation for a low paying, crappy job like city trash guys/factory workers etc but now those jobs pay decent and most of the people in them are seeking out these jobs simply for the long term benefits.
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08-14-2009 08:56 AM
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08-14-2009 11:16 AM
Enough blame to go around. Just like the Automakers. I worked for 12 years for a UAW company. Originally spun off GM by Roger Penske in the early 90s. Things went real well for 5 years or so. As the business grew EVERYONE wanted more. New hires got lazier with their union protection, managment wanted more since company was profitting, the union demanded more for itself. Bosch bought in as a way to eliminate their competition. They recognized the abuses and moved from our state and country. Now everyone loses. Workers get lazy and want more, managment makes bad decisions but still want more, and the union hierarchy get corrupt and want more. I feel bad for the hardworker that does his job everyday and is a victim of this stuff!!!!!
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08-14-2009 12:23 PMI know the state of Oklahoma is offering Mercury some very nice incentives to move it all to the Stillwater Okla. plant, looks as this might happen.
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08-14-2009 01:27 PMWorking in a UAW plant really opens up your eyes to how F'd Up Unions are.
I remember my first day, some guy showed up to work drunk (I was told not the first occasion), wrecks a forklift and damages a ton of product, the supervisor fires him. The guy is back to work less than 2wks later because the union got his job back.
5 yrs later the company asked the union to freeze wages for existing employees and new hires got a lower base rate. Union said absolutely not, now you have 1k union members w/out jobs crying that the company treated them poorly. Just amazing.
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08-14-2009 03:40 PM
But, it is not looking great in OK either. Very sad!!!!
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/4...fs-in-oklahoma
JulieWhen you feel the need for speed...Throttle Up!
GO FAST or GO HOME!
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08-14-2009 07:10 PMLatest on the news tonight......still no agreement between the union and Mercury. They have until Monday, then Mercury will decide if its wants to stay in Fond du Lac anymore.
I hope and pray they stay.•_•_•_▬_▬_▬_•_•_•
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08-15-2009 03:22 AM
My family moved to Muncie Indiana when I was ten. The town lived and died with the auto industry- Borg Warner and New Venture gear. About five years back the management of NVG goes to the union and tells them the only way they can keep the plant open is if they merge with Borg Warner (located right down the street) but it will mean like a $1.50 an hour pay cut to the NVG employees. The union leadership advises them to turn it down. The union votes NO and sure enough the plant closes and takes 1500+ $20+ an hour jobs with it.
A couple years go by and Ford is in big time trouble so they go to the union at Borg Warner with a similar offer. Ratify a new contract and take a $2 an hour pay cut and we'll guarantee your jobs for the next 15 years, but if the union doesn't agree then they can't afford their product and they will move the work to a different facility out of state. It's the unions choice. So after the lesson of NVG that had shut it's doors just a few years prior, what does the Union workforce at Borg Warner do? Of course they vote down the new contract. Ford says FU and takes their business to a different plant out of state and 1000+ more high paying union jobs bite the dust in Muncie.
If that isn't bad enough here's the kicker. You talk to these unemployed union guys who were making $20+ an hour about their decision to vote down the contract and they will tell you that they did the right thing - that there was just no way they could accept that pay cut!
They lost their high paying jobs, lost their benefits, lost their future but they still think they made the right decision because they couldn't let management get away with that b.s pay cut. I just don't get the union mindset - thankfully.
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08-15-2009 08:57 AM
Its real simple: I want more for doing less while I walk all over the company I work for. At least for the shop unions.
I have a buddy, used to be great friend but his shop union mentality has demoted him to just "buddy status". This guy is a real peice of work and listening to him talk about his job makes me want to puke.
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08-15-2009 11:18 AMI used to play cards with the VP of Eastern Airlines, during the period when they were tring to save the company. When the machinists union turned down the last offer, the company closed. The head of the local union said "We won"!
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08-15-2009 11:34 AMI think it was an old head of the UAW who said, "I'd rather have 10 union members making $10000 an hour than 10000 union members making $10 per hour." May have been one of the other union heads though. I'll try to find it. Was in the 70's I believe.
They still seem to follow that practice at all the national unions.Getting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!
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08-15-2009 11:34 AM
Lee Iacocco said it best many years ago while he was trying to save Chrysler.Not sure of the $ amounts,but he told the union"I have plenty of jobs at $25/hour,but no jobs at $35/hour." He won.
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08-15-2009 01:24 PMI was a contractor at Cat in Peoria. The union walked and cat said, no problem, don't let door hit you in arse on the way out.
They took management and put them back on the assembly lines where they came from.
Quality went way up. In fact the area where they used to park the big Cat's for rework was empty and was turned into a indoor basketball court.
A few yrs later a judge told Cat that they had to take back the uniun guys.
Quality went down, the basketball area was turned back into a rework area.
Guess what ? Yep the union screamed. You can't take away the backetball court !!!!
Last time I was in Peoria that whole facility was an empty lot.