Boats.com story on "Whatever Happened to Offshore Powerboat Racing?"

[Ratickle]

Paul, I have opinions about this, but don't feel like I have the requisite "street cred" to express my opinions on the subject at this point. I am sincerely passionate about boat racing, but I don't feel like that's sufficient background to tell people how I think things "should be done"... I will state a fact, like the fact that the turn out for the Rum Run was poor and that a certain big name local team didn't show up. But, beyond that I'd rather sit and listen to guys like Rich and Pat who've been there and done that...

Promoting a sport is promoting a sport. Doesn't matter what worked, what is working, what may work, etc.

What matters is everyone approaches it with an open mind, uses experience from all, and then make a plan to follow that is a living plan so it can be changed within a pre-set change-plan rules.

Really not that big of a deal, communicating all input into a constructive discussion seems to be the hardest part.

I bet I could get everyone on here to agree on several things that currently aren't working. And on several things that currently are. ie, Marathon, didn't work - St Clair, did. (Probably will get chewed on that generalization).

Like I said, discussing without mayhem seems to be the problem.

[Ted]

You are correct about the racers having a voice. And they are exercising it as evidenced by SBI's boat counts. And OPA's as a matter of fact.

[Ted]

Oh, and BTW, welcome Matt, glad to see you here.

[Ms PatriYacht]

The point of the article has very little to do about the fact that there have been 4 race organizations and fighting and dissension among their members. Unless you are offshore forum regulars or a racer you probably know very little if any about the drama that has taken place. Regardless if there was one happy all get along race group or 4 fragmented fighting groups there still would not be a fan base big enough to put offshore racing into the mainstream. A single race group with more boats would make it better for the fans the sport has now, but for the average person it will still be hard to see, follow, and understand. That's the reason Matt states the following in his article

I completely get why the sport has never flown—and will never fly

[Ratickle]

The point of the article has very little to do about the fact that there have been 4 race organizations and fighting and dissension among their members. Unless you are offshore forum regulars or a racer you probably know very little if any about the drama that has taken place. Regardless if there was one happy all get along race group or 4 fragmented fighting groups there still would not be a fan base big enough to put offshore racing into the mainstream. A single race group with more boats would make it better for the fans the sport has now, but for the average person it will still be hard to see, follow, and understand. That's the reason Matt states the following in his article

I completely get why the sport has never flown—and will never fly

The problem with Matts final determination, there was a time when a race attracted thousands. This weekend, you should have tried to walk around the viewing areas during a race. I have no idea what the number of people watching the race were, but I'd guess over 30,000. And, there were 49 boats there. That's an increase from last year, not a decrease in these tough times.

The main issue to me, every time the sport gets close to "flying". Someone with a determination to make money off it steps in and ruins the growth. The same thing happens in other sports, ie Indy/Formula, IHRA/NHRA, AFL/NFL, World Football League/NFL, NBA/ABA, and on and on......

The difference, it is always close to the bigtime, not quite there yet, when it happens. Sometime review the Unlimiteds and their issues. And then see how they controlled them.....

Look at drag boats, UMI, Class 1, Austrailian Sprint Boats, West Coast River runners, etc.

Like I said, I'll debate it, just needs to be a positive discussion, not a slamming of everything.

[Ratickle]

Having just attended the St. Clair race for about the 6th year, as well as about three times at Key West, New York, Metro Beach in MI and a few other venues, here are my observations.

While St Clair is one of the best venues it is till hard to see much of the race, this year they seemed to move the course even further from the shore line.

Next year bring it closer. How close can it be and be safe for all????

I had binoculars and watched from the St Clair Inn, sadly the don't have speakers set up there so you can't hear the announcer so your really don't know what is going on.

Get speakers up and down the entire viewing area.

Even though I know many of the boats and have seen them up close, when they were racing there were times because of speed and distance that I could not figure out who all the boats were, it was just to hard to read the names and numbers and that was even with binoculars. Also we thought we had a good handle of who was in what class, yet it still was confusing, we often thought a boat was in last place and then would find out they were first in their class. Makes it hard if you are the type that like to cheer a boat on.

Once again, get it closer with anouncer speakers.

I think most people find it confusing to watch a race where you have multiple races being run at the same time, this not something you get in boat racing.

Until the classes get bigger (Old F1 and F2 had too many boats), by having less maybe, I got nothing...


I also don't like races where they tell you how fast you can go and if you go faster by one mile for one second you get disqualified, can't there be some other fair way then setting speed limits, I thought a race was who ran the fastest, not who gets in a better turn position or doesn't break.

The GPS classes are the way to bring in beginners, or people who only run a few races a year with their pleasure/poker run boats in. There is no other way to equalize boats that has worked. So, once again, I got nothing ....


If I did not have an interest in offshore boats as a hobby, attend poker runs, meet racers and friends through these web sites I really can not imagine just attending the race because I like watching the boats go around the course. If you ask me if I like going to the boat races I would say yes but it is because of the whole package, the party atmosphere, meeting up with friends in the dry pits, meeting people face to face that you know from the web sites, being outside on a sunny day and enjoying a beverage while watching the race.

That's a lot of what it is supposed to be. An event, not just a race

Here's part of the answer to the solution, fix it. Most not that hard.

[Ratickle]

The Offshore Super Series is a team owner-controlled group. So the owners must reach consensus for rules to be set. I am not saying that's inherently bad or unworkable, but it is tricky. Because racers are competitive by definition, and if I, as a racer, see a rule on the table that will help my chances, I'll be all for it. And if the new rule will hurt my chances, I'll oppose it.

Onto SBI. Love it, hate it, have no strong feelings about it, SBI has survived because John Carbonell runs it ... anyone? anyone? Bueller? ... as a business. Decisions are made on what's best for SBI, and while that might not always please racers or fans ... it's not their business. It doesn't put food on their tables. SBI is John Carbonell's livelihood.

You don't address OPA, which has the largest boat counts, or the overseas classes which have a huge following and very large purses.

I'll take it a step farther. John is the problem in my opinion. Due to his style of only having one thing in mind, what's best for John, not what's even best for SBI and for sure not what's best for Offshore Racing, the entire offshore group has been shattered over and over. If he truly ran it as what was best for SBI, I believe it would be in a much stronger position.

But, I said I wouldn't get into this until after this weekend.

I ran an almost exclusive OPA race a week ago, a combined OSS/OPA race this past weekend, and will be at the SBI race this weekend (not racing though). Report to follow.

[GENERAL LEE]

To General Lee's point:

Thanks Matt. :coolgleamA:

I just seems like it would be so easy to just have "real" 525, 700, 1075, & unlimited classes? I "think" much of the reason Nascar works, is because they are all running the same essential setup. Obviously this puts more emphasis on the driver, but the team gets more attention as well, making the whole group more marketable. Since the more people or "objects" you can put a logo on, the more sponsor money, have any of the racing groups REALLY tried hiring a marketing firm to present ways to increase interest?

[OldSchool]

To General Lee's point:

In offshore racing sanctioning bodies, you don't have the equivalent of the France family, which rules NASCAR in a fairly autocratic, "my way or the highway" fashion. Sponsors, the real fuel for NASCAR teams, choose "my way" over "the highway" because NASCAR fans have proven to be loyal buyers of NASCAR sponsors' products. So even if a sponsor doesn't like a rule, he's less likely to walk away because it hits him in his own wallet. Pretty simple stuff.

Offshore racing has not proven that it can sell products, much less itself, and it probably can't for any number of reasons. So even if offshore racing had a France-style autocracy, what few sponsors there are would simply take their toys and go home when dissatisfied with a new rule.

However, we don't even get that far. The Offshore Super Series is a team owner-controlled group. So the owners must reach consensus for rules to be set. I am not saying that's inherently bad or unworkable, but it is tricky. Because racers are competitive by definition, and if I, as a racer, see a rule on the table that will help my chances, I'll be all for it. And if the new rule will hurt my chances, I'll oppose it.

It's not right or wrong. It's human nature.

To some degree, we are all self-serving. As someone much smarter than I am once told me: Without special interest, there is no interest.

Onto SBI. Love it, hate it, have no strong feelings about it, SBI has survived because John Carbonell runs it ... anyone? anyone? Bueller? ... as a business. Decisions are made on what's best for SBI, and while that might not always please racers or fans ... it's not their business. It doesn't put food on their tables. SBI is John Carbonell's livelihood.

Now, you might say the racers pay the bills with their entry fees, and indeed they do, and that they should have a voice. In fact, my friends, they have the loudest voice possible. Racing is a product. They can choose not to buy it. Same goes for the fans. They can choose not to attend. There are plenty of other weekend diversions.

It is what it is.

That's got to be one of the best, level-headed responses that I've ever read on an online forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...and that concept works great......as long as personal attacks and keyboard tempers don't flare up! Too many threads on the forums getoff track because people would rather call someone an azzhole instead of debating a subject. I'm not talking about this thread as it's been quite civil!

.....and thanks for having the courage to post Matt!!

Carry on

[OldSchool]

Thanks Matt. :coolgleamA:

I just seems like it would be so easy to just have "real" 525, 700, 1075, & unlimited classes? I "think" much of the reason Nascar works, is because they are all running the same essential setup. Obviously this puts more emphasis on the driver, but the team gets more attention as well, making the whole group more marketable. Since the more people or "objects" you can put a logo on, the more sponsor money, have any of the racing groups REALLY tried hiring a marketing firm to present ways to increase interest?

I think that the concept that you are talking about would give the sport the best chance to thrive. Unfortunately, It's highly unlikely that it will ever happen

[catastrophe]

I think that the concept that you are talking about would give the sport the best chance to thrive. Unfortunately, It's highly unlikely that it will ever happen

You are right. It wont. Until a new autocrat with deep pockets and modern ideas shows up. The series has to be OWNED by someone, not by racers or anyone that doesnt have their own money invested in it.

[Ratickle]

I think that the concept that you are talking about would give the sport the best chance to thrive. Unfortunately, It's highly unlikely that it will ever happen

I also think it is the correct base concept to start with. And that it is extremely unlikely it will ever happen.

Many do not really want to race. They want to put on a demonstration and get a flag. That is fine. Just call it what it is. A race always has more than one competitor. I don't care if it's a foot race, a horse race, a car race, or a ski race.

I can give example after example of things that worked. I can also give the reasons they went away. So, just for discussion and thought. (None of the reasons they went away, think about these first)

Supercat - at least a dozen in Key West in 03 ?
F1 - 20 plus in the late 90's ?
F2 - 30 plus in the late 90's ?
Outboard Cat - Overseas
Class 1 - Overseas
The old Open Class - Rich?

Currently, SVL and outboard cat has the group of racers closest.

ANd the Production/Speed Evened classes. A little outside the intent currently, but still attracting racers, (like me).

And many more.

Start with what worked
Eliminate what did them in
And set sights on the future.

But don't throw up your hands and say it has never worked and never will.

There is a reason the X games get higher ratings than a soccer game here. What is it????? There are certainly more soccer players than skiers.

[ericc]

Like Matt, I am a professional fan of offshore racing, having covered the sport seriously for 9 years at Powerboat. I also raced for about three years before similar spousal pressure and the birth of my son Blake made me decide to hang up the orange helmet. I admit that every time I see a race, part of me yearns to be out there. I tried to cover the sport with an optimistic approach and annually hoped that a coming season would be the year when everyone got together and made the sport as great as it could be. I think that the closest we got was when Gene Whipp was running APBA Offshore and, as much as some didn't like him, Michael Allweiss did a good job of bringing the sport closer to the fans. Matt's assessment is dead-on. It's primarily always been a serious hobby, not a professional sport, but one we can't seem to get enough of.

[Ratickle]

You are right. It wont. Until a new autocrat with deep pockets and modern ideas shows up. The series has to be OWNED by someone, not by racers or anyone that doesnt have their own money invested in it.

Sorry Alec, have to disagree with you there.

The racers I talk to who are currently sitting on the sidelines are doing so for two main reasons. ( SVL is working because they don't allow those things)

1. Rules get changed late in the year, before the season starts, making it too late to do anything to be competitive.

The main suggestion I receive, make it so no rules get changed after Feb 1st, period.

2. Rules get changed making their equipment obsolete.

The main suggestion I receive, make it so 70% minimum of the racers/teams who raced the previous season have to agree to that rules change, otherwise no go.


And many of the racers do have their own money invested in it. Many......

Look at the SVL teams and talk to them. They do everything possible to help each other compete.

[OldSchool]

Like Matt, I am a professional fan of offshore racing, having covered the sport seriously for 9 years at Powerboat. I also raced for about three years before similar spousal pressure and the birth of my son Blake made me decide to hang up the orange helmet. I admit that every time I see a race, part of me yearns to be out there. I tried to cover the sport with an optimistic approach and annually hoped that a coming season would be the year when everyone got together and made the sport as great as it could be. I think that the closest we got was when Gene Whipp was running APBA Offshore and, as much as some didn't like him, Michael Allweiss did a good job of bringing the sport closer to the fans. Matt's assessment is dead-on. It's primarily always been a serious hobby, not a professional sport, but one we can't seem to get enough of.

Ha! It's kind of like what it's like for us die-hard lifelong Redskins fans since little Danny Snyder bought the team. Every year, right about now, everyone is talking about how this will be the year that the 'Skins will return to glory....

... By November, we all realize (again) that another year has gone by that Lil Danny failed at his attempt of buying the best team in football. You have to build it!!!!

[Ratickle]

You have to build it!!!!

Exactly..........

[Ted]

Like Matt, I am a professional fan of offshore racing, having covered the sport seriously for 9 years at Powerboat. I also raced for about three years before similar spousal pressure and the birth of my son Blake made me decide to hang up the orange helmet. I admit that every time I see a race, part of me yearns to be out there. I tried to cover the sport with an optimistic approach and annually hoped that a coming season would be the year when everyone got together and made the sport as great as it could be. I think that the closest we got was when Gene Whipp was running APBA Offshore and, as much as some didn't like him, Michael Allweiss did a good job of bringing the sport closer to the fans. Matt's assessment is dead-on. It's primarily always been a serious hobby, not a professional sport, but one we can't seem to get enough of.

Dead on Eric, and to add to that, Mike A. posted in another thread here (Great Unification) that in order for it ever to truly prosper, the organization should OWN the boats of the premier class. This of course would keep the best funded teams from breaking off and forming their own group ala OPT, OSS, and OPS. Now since that is unlikely to happen I believe a better scenario is a person or persons that can emulate a Gene Whipp or Ed Smith to the racers (respect, understanding, empathy) and also be able to have a business model closer to Mike A. or John C. (although I don't think John C. has had a broad reaching, growth oriented model in place) . Now the question is can one person do that? It would be a monumental task to balance the needs and desires of the participants and the business. It could be done, but so far the stars have not aligned, so here we are.

[Ratickle]

I can't get this to post correctly. But, this is my opinion of problem number 1. If you see any errors, let me know and I'll change/correct them. It's tough to read all the rule books. And there are still a couple of blanks.


Class Org. (s) Hull Size Hull Style Engine Size Engine Qty. Max Speed

1 Extreme/Turbine OPA Any Any Any Any na
2 Unlimited Offshore OSS 40' to 50' Any Turbine Any na
3 Turbine SBI 38' to 50' Cat Turbine Twin na
4 Superboat Unlimited/Cat Ext. SBI/OSS 40' to 50' Cat Any Any na
5 Superboat V Unlimited Ext. SBI 40' to 50' V Any Any na
6 Superboat V Unlimited SBI 40' to 50' V Any Any na
7 Supercharged Cat OSS 37' 2" to 46' Cat Twin na
8 Cat OSS 38' to 40' Cat Twin na
9 Cat Light OSS/OPA 35' to 38' Cat 525's Twin na
10 Vee OSS 33' to 42' V Twin na
11 Super Vee OSS 36' to 43' V Twin na
12 Supercat 850 SBI & OPA 36' to 46' Cat 565 Twin na
13 Supercat 750 SBI & OPA 36' to 46' Cat 510 Twin na
14 Supercat SBI 36' to 40' Cat Twin na
15 Super Vee SBI/OPA 34' to 40' V 525's Twin na
16 Super V Limited/Vee Light SBI/OSS 26' to 32' V 525 Single na
17 Superboat Stock/Cat Outbd SBI/OSS 28' to 32' Cat Any Outbd Twin na
18 P1 SBI Any Any Any Any 117 mph
19 Class 100 OPA Any Any Any Any 115 mph
20 P2 SBI Any Any Any Any 105 mph
21 Pro Am 1 OSS 21' to Any Any Any Any 95 mph
22 Class 300/P3 OPA/SBI Any Any Any Any 95 mph
23 Pro Am 2 OSS 21' to Any Any Any Any 85 mph
24 P4 SBI Any Any Any Any 85 mph
25 Class 400 OPA Any V Any Any 85 mph
26 Pro Am 3 OSS 21' to Any Any Any Any 75 mph
27 Class 500 OPA 0' to 30' V Any Any 75 mph
28 P 5 SBI 0' to 30' Any Any Single 75 mph
29 Class 600 OPA 0' to 26' V Any Any 70 mph
30 Pro Am 4 OSS 24' to 30' Any Any Single In/ Twin Out 65 mph

[BlackJack58]

This has been a very good read and a smart, civil discourse on racing, so far. Thanks for all who have posted.

I've heard a lot of people say that racing needs to be "close to shore" so people can enjoy the races. And I think that will always make sense. But maybe, as some of the old-timers say, the sport also needs to go "back offshore" to some extent...

At first, it didn't make sense to me either - but (sacriledge aside) look at what the blow boaters do with events like the Volvo Ocean Race*, Vendee Globe and Sydney-Hobart races. You can't see those boats from shore, either. But they have point-to-point coverage with cameras on each boat, huge turnouts of fans at cities where they port, MILLIONS of people tracking the racers progress online via satellite mapping, online video and press releases every day on the status of the races. They get a good share of big money, high-end sponsors and lots of run. Companies feature their boat sponsorships in their regular advertising (Rolex, for example). And, of course, they are all controlled by a single, strong entity. Their basic formats are different, and during the current economic downturn, are struggling a little, like everyone else. But certainly there must be some lessons to be learned there.

It's also funny when you consider that sailboat racing is considered to be a "snob sport" (even this is admitted by sailboat racers) to which common people can't relate. Who here doesn't think offshore racing is louder, faster, more exciting, and a lot sexier? It certainly can be just as "upscale" (though SBI's "boat racing of the rich and famous" is a little too blatant a tag line for me--but hey, I'm just an old ad copywriter).

I guess my thought is, all of Matt's comments make perfect sense. But then I see that sail racing:

1) Is hard to follow and relatively far away from shore

2) Is esoteric and hard to watch

3) Is hard for the average guy or gal in the street to relate to, much less understand.

...yet in comparative terms, that sport seems to be doing better. Some will say it's apples-to-oranges, but I think there's enough in common to make it a worthwhile consideration. I hate to say it, but if we're always looking at NASCAR, maybe we're looking in the wrong place.

Just my .02

*Volvo Ocean Race Sponsor Data:

(from website) Key Facts
- Television coverage producing a cumulative audience of 2.0 billion viewers.
- Print media coverage of over 18,000 published articles in 11 territories, creating in excess of 686 million unique readers
- Over three and a half million unique visitors to the official website
- More than a billion listeners to radio race coverage
- 200% - 300% return on investment on media exposure alone for syndicates
- High socio-economic grouping with 37% of those aware of the race categorized as ABC1
- Awareness of competing teams increased by up to 30%
- Proven track record as a business to business and internal engagement tool

[Ratickle]

Look at the coverage of P1/Stock Outboard while you're reviewing things. Same type of scenario.