At wits end...what would Jim do?

[Tony]

So I fired theese new engiens last Tuesday and had a ticking exhaust leak on the stbd engine. My builder used GM performance blocks with the oil dipstick tube journals at deck height...Sooo I had to use half inch aluminum spacers between the heads and the manifolds with a gasket on each side of the spacer. When I pulled the riser off there was water in the manifold, I wrote it off as carelessly pulling off the manifold to riser hose.

Today I glued a new set of gaskets to each side of the spacer with copper based RTV Permatex and let it set up under weight, I doubled up the thick flat washers on the manifold heads becase I originally thought the bolts may have bottomed out. Fired the engine and it still ticked severley, I brought it up to temp to see if the tick went away with heat expansion and it never totally did.

The #1 and #3 cylinder are showing carbon marks between the head and spacer, I checked everything with a straight edge and all is well, I double checked the bolt length and its fine too.
I carefully pulled it appart and the inside of the manifold was plasterd with water droplets and again there was water pooled in the bottom of the manifold. I pulled the oposite riser and it had water in it too.

Seems like I've got a few different problems here but for the life of me, I can't figure out the lack of seal or the reversion, these are long risers with an anti reversion tab welded into the elbow on a mild camshaft....WTF?!

[Ratickle]

I know someones gonna ask overlap......

[Tony]

more pictures

[Ratickle]

Have the manifolds been pressure tested? They look new, but???

[Tony]

long riser

[Tony]

Every last part on theese engines are brand spankin new.

[inbetween]

more pictures

Either that head or spacer isn't flat. I guess it could've been under torqued in those spots too, but I'd go with spacer not flat as a guess from this perspective. That doesn't account for the water though.

[insanity]

Are the spacers all one piece or three pieces to go around each of the ports? (obviously the middle spacer would go around both ports). Did you check the thickness of the spacer in addition to the flatness? For example, mic the spacer where one of the obvious leaks is and compare it to the thickness of a spot that wasn't leaking?

Any way to change out the dipstick to route to the front of the head and get rid of the spacers all together?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Damn Tony, I am sorry it is giving you trouble. What is the that on the head between 1 and 3? I plug or something. Is that holding the manifold out on the bottom?

If you stick a straight edge across both flame arresters is it the same as across the two manifolds from port to starboard engines. I missing or leaking cylinder will sometimes draw water back. Where does the water mix in the tail piece. Flow water through it and look with a flash light. Also just for grins flow water through the motor with the manifold off and pressure check or fill the manifold with water. Bark the motor dry to dry out the cylinders. Then sleep on it.

It really sucks but, you can't assume anything when you have a problem with new parts. You need to check everything.

I hope the problem shows its ugly face soon.

[J-Bonz]

It really sucks but, you can't assume anything when you have a problem with new parts. You need to check everything.

Jim,
That is the best advice I have heard in a long time! 100% Totally True!! Tony, Sorry about you problem. I hope you get that figured out and get on the water soon. This must be driving you nuts!
Jr.

[TMS1155]

If you can get to the drain plugs in the oil pan maybe you could put dipstick tubes there. I know OMC and Volvo both had them that way for a while. If you can then remove the other tubes and plug the holes. The exhaust leaking may be creating a vacum in the manifolds pulling the water back in.(just a guess)

[Tony]

Damn Tony, I am sorry it is giving you trouble. What is the that on the head between 1 and 3? I plug or something. Is that holding the manifold out on the bottom?

.

Now that you pointed that out I had the spacer in there ass backwards and that plug was probbaly the culprit.

The water dumps into the risers at the very end where it takes a jump down in O.D. which is why I cant belive the cam alone would be reverting water.

[Ratickle]

I looked at those pics up close last night and did not spot that the v in the spacer did not line up with the v in the gasket.

Duh

Nice catch Jim......

[Airpacker]

Tony. if you still have it all apart, hook the hose to the manifold inlet adn plug the outlet. Leave it sitting under full garden hose pressure for a while and check for leaks. Repeat on all four. Do the same with the risers.

As for the exhaust leak,I'm with Jim, the pipe plug in the head is interfering with the spacer.

[MERPerformance]

I wish my troubleshooting on the problem I had was as simple as that, I'll trade you even up now. TOP GUN COOLING PROBLEM

[Ratickle]

One thing, two of you said an exhaust leak will cause water reversion because it draws a vacuum.

Correct????

And just a small leak will do that ????

[MERPerformance]

One thing, two of you said an exhaust leak will cause water reversion because it draws a vacuum.

Correct????

And just a small leak will do that ????

Those exhaust will draw water with any exhaust leak. If it's at the manifold and tail ,I believe 3&5 would have water If it's leaking at the manifold port the velocity is going to be higher pulling the water in to those two cylinders that are leaking, thoughts coming from intake port design and flow.

[MERPerformance]

Thought you said water was on cylinders 1&3 sorry, anyways if the port is leaking the velocity will be higher than at the manifold / tailpipe, they do want you to use hi temp sealer at those areas.

[inbetween]

I looked at those pics up close last night and did not spot that the v in the spacer did not line up with the v in the gasket.

Duh

Nice catch Jim......

Yea what he said...

[phragle]

I say pull em', toss em' and go twin turbines..stop wussing around. with the wedding comming up, just tell Donzi's family your registerd with Aruda...