Splashing a hull and deck

[sledge]

What kind of effort is involved? Say 15' long x 6' wide?

[Excalibur Racing]

I doubt if anyone here is going to help you steal someone elses design.

[Chris]

If it's the latest Skater or something like that, I'd say there would be an issue. If it's an MFG tri-hull, I don't think there's a problem. Virtually everything produced in an offshore boat in the last 30 years is based on a pop of the Magnum 27, including virtually all of the Cigarettes. If it's an existing production model, I'd say it's unethical- unless you're using it as the basis for a plug that you're doing substantial modifications to. And if you're just making one for yourself, all bets are off.

To make a mold from an existing hull requires alot of work. First, you have to fix whatever issue the hull has. If it's twisted or hooked, that needs to be addressed. Then it has to be flawless. Imperfections transfer to the mold and everything you pull will have to be worked. Then you need to wax it down and get the proper amount of mold release on it. Too little and you'll never get them apart. Too much and you'll have a funky mold that produces funky parts. Then you cover in tooling gel, then start glassing it up. You'd probably want two to three times the thickness of the boat you're constructing. Coring is also a possibility. Then you have to box it- either with pipe or wooden forms. The hull is going to be easier than the deck mold, especially if it's a bucket style with an integral cockpit.

Short version- it's a big, difficult and expensive deal.

[sledge]

I doubt if anyone here is going to help you steal someone elses design.

Thanks for the ****** reponse. Take the attitude back to another forum.

Original hull/deck design dates back to the '60s.

Am I the only one who can see the part where I said the boat is 15 feet long with 6 foot beam?

[glassdave]

Michael can you give us a little more info on what you are trying to accomplish? As Chris said the effort involved can vary widely. If its just a one shot deal you could do a quick an dirty mold that would require more finish work on the pulled parts but would be more cost prohibitive than doing a full production type set molds.

[sledge]

C'mon Chris, could've at least left a few letters in there...

Hey Dave...I found a hull and deck. Couldn't talk the owner out of it, he's thinking about making a mold. I know nothing of splashing a mold other than how many times it's been done. I really wanted the original hull but I'm wondering if it would be "worth it" to have a copy. While I think there might be some very small interest in it, my intentions weren't to go into production. I'm "educating" the current owner as to what he's got to make sure he doesn't go and ruin it, but I have no idea what his plans will be.

[Geronimo36]

Just my opinion... Splashing for sale is a no-no.. splashing for personal consumption, no beef with me.

I made my first surfboard by "splashing" it from one of my favorite boards. From there I had a starting point and incorporated many changes in the 20 other boards I made afterwards.

[glassdave]

cool, sounds more like preservation rather than a splash/production issue, I dont see much harm in that if its an out of production out of date piece. Are you able/willing to disclose what hull? If you dont intend to produce them and it may be your only way to obtain one should be no biggie. hell look how many Shelby Cobras there are running around the streets, probably a hundred times more than Carrol ever made lol. Yea splashing does bring up some ethical and moral issues. Personally i'm not a big fan but theres a lot of gray areas that surround it. My only reservation is when its a blatant rip off for the sole purpose of production but i dont think thats what we have here.

You can build a decent mold without getting to carried away if you just take your time on it and use you head. you could probably keep it under a couple grand in materials.

[sledge]

Thanks Dave. Able-yes, willing-I'll let the cat out of the bag soon enough I suppose...

Am I the only one who sees a little irony in the idea that our "legend" Don gained his reputation by carrying the same design between brands yet we're so vigilant these days to pounce on anybody who thinks about replicating his methods? Boy could we go sideways with the whole intellectual property and patent law discussion...but that's not what I was trying to do here.

Alright, alright already, I'm busted....I want to take a 15' boat to China and make millions of copies.

[glassdave]

Thanks Dave. Able-yes, willing-I'll let the cat out of the bag soon enough I suppose...

Am I the only one who sees a little irony in the idea that our "legend" Don gained his reputation by carrying the same design between brands yet we're so vigilant these days to pounce on anybody who thinks about replicating his methods? Boy could we go sideways with the whole intellectual property and patent law discussion...but that's not what I was trying to do here.

Alright, alright already, I'm busted....I want to take a 15' boat to China and make millions of copies.

lol AHH HAAA!! so its a cat! . . . millions huh . . .sell 'em cheap at Wal Mart?

yea if you know what your lookin at you can easily see the progressions in design. There was a time when builders actually helped each other out in design and build techniques to better the sport. Ya know its funny though, theres only so many shapes a boat can take. I mean we know what works so its really hard to improve on those older designs, there were some good thinkers that got the whole thing rolling (or floating). Hell every car on the road today has four round wheels for a reason

[Chris]

Damn near all the 24 foot boats out there are splashes of the Cig 24. And virtually everything else is a splash of the Magnum 27, including at it's fullest extension the Apache 41. There's only so many ways to tweak the strakes on a straight-bottomed 24 degree hull. Length is length. So where does that leave you? There are some technical innovations out there but they're mostly fine adjustments on designs of years or decades previous. We've traced steps back to race boats from the 30's and even amphibious aircraft pontoons. So what idea or design is unique? In some cases where you're popping someone's latest design, that's wrong. But how many diferent ways is there to design a coal shovel? And the Cobra anaogy is pretty close- at some point you're building a homage. Especially when the original builder is years or decades gone.

[Offshore Ginger]

hell build the dam thing its a walk in the park nothing really hard about it !

[Dude! Sweet!]

Damn near all the 24 foot boats out there are splashes of the Cig 24. And virtually everything else is a splash of the Magnum 27, including at it's fullest extension the Apache 41. There's only so many ways to tweak the strakes on a straight-bottomed 24 degree hull. Length is length. So where does that leave you? There are some technical innovations out there but they're mostly fine adjustments on designs of years or decades previous. We've traced steps back to race boats from the 30's and even amphibious aircraft pontoons. So what idea or design is unique? In some cases where you're popping someone's latest design, that's wrong. But how many diferent ways is there to design a coal shovel? And the Cobra anaogy is pretty close- at some point you're building a homage. Especially when the original builder is years or decades gone.

Except that Shelby is suing everyone he can get his hands on these days...

[Chris]

Hadn't heard that. I'm wondering under what basis- they were sold by Ford and originally produced by AC in England. Shelby was a hotrodder that stuck a v-8 and a jag rear in them under contract for Ford.

[Geronimo36]

OT: The AC brings more cash than the Shelby's from what I'm told.

[Tony]

So, your building a Cougar Cub, or OE mini.....talk to Sparky at Vicious.

[Dude! Sweet!]

He's been doing it for a couple of years. Memory is fuzzy on the grounds (Cobra trade name/copy right was the first round as I recall, but I think one of the FFR guys told me he's back again for a second round of suits). I'll ask tomorrow if I think of it.

[sledge]

Trademarks/Copyrights have different lives than patents. I used to work for a generic drug company so I've got just a partial clue there.

Before everyone goes nuts, consider where NAPA, Year One, those Alpha & now Bravo replacements would be if patents hadn't expired. Hell, can't you pretty much build an "original" replica of a '60s Camaro now?

Now if you tried to pawn off that made in China crap as a true original OEM part, THAT would be illegal. But once a patent has expired, if one ever even existed, it's fair game.

[Ratickle]

Trademarks/Copyrights have different lives than patents. I used to work for a generic drug company so I've got just a partial clue there.

Before everyone goes nuts, consider where NAPA, Year One, those Alpha & now Bravo replacements would be if patents hadn't expired. Hell, can't you pretty much build an "original" replica of a '60s Camaro now?

Now if you tried to pawn off that made in China crap as a true original OEM part, THAT would be illegal. But once a patent has expired, if one ever even existed, it's fair game.

I doubt many of those designs ever had patents. To get one is pretty expensive and the proof is required for it to be unique in some way.

As far as I know most were probably patent pending. Which would be a protection device for anyone with less money to spend on legal fees than them.....

[glassdave]

I dont think we're talking patents here and besides those replica Camaro bodies are licensed by GM. Besides i dont think you really have an issue with what you are trying to accomplish. The unethical side of splashing comes into play when a newer current run product/hull is blatantly copied and resold. I am assuming you are looking to do a short run to preserve an older unique boat model nearing extinction. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. If thats the case we should steer this thread back to answering you original question.