Let's try a different approach

[skaterdave]

I really love this different approach idea. Why don't we try this: Limit the contributors to a racing forum to folks designated as competitors. When those of us who spend the money and take the risks to keep this sport alive have to read drivel written by people with specific agendas and little factual knowledge it's disheartening. When people who might otherwise be racing read it, it is incredibly detrimental. If a forum were "competitors only" we could have dialog between those who put their lives and money on the line and have had a say in where we now find ourselves.

steve if they did that it would be just you and beckley talking on here.

also, i race smaller boats and have raced offshore. i'm just pointing out facts that make no sense to me.

you and the few others really nned to come to grips with reality and look at the "sport of offshore racing" and see that something major has to change.

since you decided to jump on my post , i'll start be fixing whats wrong with your class.first off theres nothing stock about superstock boats, yea yea thats why there called "super" stock, i know. but the 2.5 has nothing to do with an stock outboard and last i checked you cant even buy one as a regular boater. the 2.5 is a specific race outboard that need alot of maintence to be competive you probably gotta rebuild every 2-3 races and go thru the gear cases every other race? you'd be spending more than a cat lite guy.

why not switch to a real production outboard such as the 300xs, and this way you could have a motor that could be used outside of racing with the risk of putting hrs on a race only 2.5? also open the door to other production outboards which might bring in one of the other maunfactures.

ps hope the "stevequikjewerly".com on cbs goes good for ya????

[Tague]

My feeling is if you truely want change in the sport. And are serious about it, then the only way to do it is by getting involved. And by involved I mean putting your time and money on the line. I once again ask the question I did in an earlier post. What would it take for you to spend the money, buy a race boat and participate? Not what you think is needed for others to do it, but YOU.

[Ratickle]

I don't always elaborate correctly, I know that. I also never take anything personal, unless it is. Debating my message/opinion is no way personal. So;


There are those of us who raced long ago and would like to race again. The expense, to me, is not that big of deal In The Right Classes Scenario.

I can get a gas sponsorship easily. They are local and the expense to them is minor compared to the bang for the buck on TV/Internet/Magazines and in the local papers. Especially this year with three races within a 3 hour drive. This is a major boating area.

Buying the boat, that's just a trade-off between a couple we have now and one race boat, that would also be used for fun/pleasure. So two boats instead of four.

Bracket/GPPS racing, that is the hardest one to find sponsors for. To get $5000 from 10 different entities to cover half the years expense, they want the exposure the non-GPS classes get in the magazines/on the internet. I don't blame them.

Safety, must be a canopy boat because with my wife and I racing together, I will not subject her to any more danger than is absolutely necessary.

So, looking at all of that, SVL makes the most sense, there are currently 3 competitive boats for sale I know of, but the rules/classes in all orgs do not support the expenditure to me for something that may be out of contention the following year. And, can't be raced in it's designed class in OPA,OSS, and SBI all three, currently. It's value would plummet. I don't live in Florida where there are several races within a days drive (12hrs max to me is a day).

Second most sense, outboard cat. Same issues, and as Quick pointed out a while back, not the best beginning class for some dumbazz who's never owned a cat......

Hope that clears some stuff up, if not, as I said, let me know or ask. That's what this forum is all about. I'm not the only one who wants to race but doesn't because of the time constraint.

[Tague]

steve if they did that it would be just you and beckley talking on here.

also, i race smaller boats and have raced offshore. i'm just pointing out facts that make no sense to me.

you and the few others really nned to come to grips with reality and look at the "sport of offshore racing" and see that something major has to change.

since you decided to jump on my post , i'll start be fixing whats wrong with your class.first off theres nothing stock about superstock boats, yea yea thats why there called "super" stock, i know. but the 2.5 has nothing to do with an stock outboard and last i checked you cant even buy one as a regular boater. the 2.5 is a specific race outboard that need alot of maintence to be competive you probably gotta rebuild every 2-3 races and go thru the gear cases every other race? you'd be spending more than a cat lite guy.

why not switch to a real production outboard such as the 300xs, and this way you could have a motor that could be used outside of racing with the risk of putting hrs on a race only 2.5? also open the door to other production outboards which might bring in one of the other maunfactures.

ps hope the "stevequikjewerly".com on cbs goes good for ya????

This is the funniest thing that I have ever seen.
Let me give you some facts about SS

In 2007 I had fresh powerheads on my boat. I raced the whole year and never rebuilt one. The year before I raced 10 races on 2.5's that had 50 hours on them when I got them. Never rebuilt them.

Gear cases Diamond opened them up after every race and inspected them. I put new gears in half way through the season.

Why not switch to 300's or any other production motor?

It wouldn't bring one more boat into the class? But I would bet (and Steve correct me if i'm wrong). If Honda, Suzuki, Evenrude or Yamaha said "hay guys buy motors from us with warrenty, and we'll give you help, a killer deal on parts, have factory people there to work with you." If it was cheaper for the racers we would be all for it. So the boat only goes 100mph....I can only speak for myself but if it was cheaper to run, I'd be all for it.

[Chris]

My feeling is if you truely want change in the sport. And are serious about it, then the only way to do it is by getting involved. And by involved I mean putting your time and money on the line. I once again ask the question I did in an earlier post. What would it take for you to spend the money, buy a race boat and participate? Not what you think is needed for others to do it, but YOU.

That's a very good question.

What the sport seems to lack is a clear conduit for people to travel that leads them into a seat in a raceboat. The concept of a guy showing up with a raceboat without prior involvement is slim, so how do you get them in? I would think it would be by having an organized program of out-of-boat involvement, then the opportunity to participate in an incremental fashion- like the Batboat program.

In most motorsports, there's a clear developmental path. I suppose there could be that same thing in boat racing. In auto racing, you can go from carts to legends to dirt tracks to local speedways and if you have the talent and resources, to the big show. Is anyone at the organization level doing anything to expose the kneel-to-drive hydro kids to the sport? That's the more likely candidate. The typical performance boater is likely to be more drawn to poker runs. It's unusual to hit your late 30's or upwards and suddenly discover you have a desire for competition.

[Tague]

I don't always elaborate correctly, I know that. I also never take anything personal, unless it is. Debating my message/opinion is no way personal. So;


There are those of us who raced long ago and would like to race again. The expense, to me, is not that big of deal In The Right Classes Scenario.

I can get a gas sponsorship easily. They are local and the expense to them is minor compared to the bang for the buck on TV/Internet/Magazines and in the local papers. Especially this year with three races within a 3 hour drive. This is a major boating area.

Buying the boat, that's just a trade-off between a couple we have now and one race boat, that would also be used for fun/pleasure. So two boats instead of four.

Bracket/GPPS racing, that is the hardest one to find sponsors for. To get $5000 from 10 different entities to cover half the years expense, they want the exposure the non-GPS classes get in the magazines/on the internet. I don't blame them.

Safety, must be a canopy boat because with my wife and I racing together, I will not subject her to any more danger than is absolutely necessary.

So, looking at all of that, SVL makes the most sense, there are currently 3 competitive boats for sale I know of, but the rules/classes in all orgs do not support the expenditure to me for something that may be out of contention the following year. And, can't be raced in it's designed class in OPA,OSS, and SBI all three, currently. It's value would plummet. I don't live in Florida where there are several races within a days drive (12hrs max to me is a day).

Second most sense, outboard cat. Same issues, and as Quick pointed out a while back, not the best beginning class for some dumbazz who's never owned a cat......

Hope that clears some stuff up, if not, as I said, let me know or ask. That's what this forum is all about. I'm not the only one who wants to race but doesn't because of the time constraint.

I think if I was in your shoe's I would buy a canopied cat with a set of stock 2.5 200 carb motors, 2.4's anything that you could get some seat time in and at a low cost. P class race it and when you get ready sell it and go into Stock with that boat or buy another.



here is one option, this is the another Deep Vee Cat that would make a safe entry level boat for someone.

Give Lee a call and make a deal.

[Ratickle]

Is anyone at the organization level doing anything to expose the kneel-to-drive hydro kids to the sport?

Loved/hated those things. But we had a real large circuit out on the west coast. Knees still kill me, but I blame motocross/desert racing.....

[Phantom1]

My feeling is if you truely want change in the sport. And are serious about it, then the only way to do it is by getting involved. And by involved I mean putting your time and money on the line. I once again ask the question I did in an earlier post. What would it take for you to spend the money, buy a race boat and participate? Not what you think is needed for others to do it, but YOU.

I agree with you for the most part. I first raced my pleasure boat Thoroughbred/Velocity in 1995 - Run What Ya Brung class in Sarasota. I was hooked....

It took me awhile, but ended up with a 30 Phantom running A class in 1999, which soon became SVL. My first race was in Kissimmee and I remember asking a veteran racer why there weren't more boats. He said "most people race for three years and give it up - the three year rule". I thought to myself that it made no sense, and I was going to race forever. Guess what - I raced for 3 years and then sold the boat. The politics, personal agendas, egos and rule changes wore me out.

I have no interest in racing again, but I do feel that there is a lot to be learned from ex-racers. Are they a better target to get back in the game than recruiting new racers? I don't know, but there is a big pool of ex-racers to recruit from.

[skaterdave]

[QUOTE=Tague;264966]This is the funniest thing that I have ever seen.
Let me give you some facts about SS



Gear cases Diamond opened them up after every race and inspected them. I put new gears in half way through the season.


isn't this what i just said???? did diamond open them up and work on them for free???
and as far as motors go talk to the top guys and ask them how often the motors get rebuilt??

i know of 2 people that would jump on a super stock race boat but the idea of the 2.5 scares them away.

[Ryan Beckley]

A couple of seasons ago we ran 9 races on a set of powerheads and gearcases without going through them & no break downs. You also can still by motors, powerheads, & gearcases from Mercury. We base our SS race program around $5,000.00 +/- per race FYI.

If you actually throttle the boat (IE not just hold it wide open) the motors and gearcases are very reliable. The big guys rebuild the motors after 5 races and gearcases alittle more often. If you change the gearcase oil it is a pretty good indicator wether they need to be rebuilt of not.

Bottom line is most of todays performance boater are afraid of cats & outboards.......I just had an SVL guy drive my boat at a race and he is HOOKED now.....

[Ratickle]

A couple of seasons ago we ran 9 races on a set of powerheads and gearcases without going through them & no break downs. You also can still by motors, powerheads, & gearcases from Mercury. We base our SS race program around $5,000.00 +/- per race FYI.

Is that total expenditure average, or your out of pocket after sponsorship assistance? I was figuring $100,000 for the season with no boat payment for a 10 race season, plus the worlds.

[Ratickle]

Bottom line is most of todays performance boater are afraid of cats & outboards.........

I'm not skeered, just can't justify the insurace hit vs. a performance Vee.

[Ryan Beckley]

NO the $5000.00 is total.....per race then subtract out your sponsorship, prize money, & other income.

[Tague]

Ryan, we were the same $5000 a race is right on the money.

and I don't remember but I think Diamond charged me like $175.00 a gear case to open up, inspect and re-assemble. I can do that 10 times before I spend the money on a blown up one.

[stevequick]

[QUOTE=skaterdave;264947]steve if they did that it would be just you and beckley talking on here.
And then you would have people who actually have the desire and ba*$$ to do it discussing what it is REALLY all about. Not what it was (was it?) what it could be (could it?) or what it should be in the fantasies of a few Wanna Be's who have no intention of ever doing anything that takes them away from a keyboard.
To the Wanna Be's who really want to race or engage in substantive dialog (and many do) your input is welcome and interesting, and you will find nothing but assistance from Ryan and Team Throttle Up to help you get up to speed.
SQ

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Nice Steve, I too am willing to help. I took a different path. I worked from the the bilge to the driver seat. Money is one way. Willingness to work and help with experience is another.

[DIRTY DUCK]

I believe complete motor inspections that are a open book would help the sport. I have watched several boats get away with alot. When that is repeated over and over it leaves a bad taste. Some classes have been destroyed by cheating, but nodody wants to call out the cheater. The people in charge are afraid they might lose that boat at their next race. What happens instead is that boat shows up and the other boats start dropping out little by little. There is alot of improvment that could happen here, One of the best inspections I seen in years was at St. Clair with a inspector named Anthony Smith and that was several years ago.

Just my 2 cents
ALVIN

[phragle]

[QUOTE=stevequick;265429]

steve if they did that it would be just you and beckley talking on here.
And then you would have people who actually have the desire and ba*$$ to do it discussing what it is REALLY all about. Not what it was (was it?) what it could be (could it?) or what it should be in the fantasies of a few Wanna Be's who have no intention of ever doing anything that takes them away from a keyboard.
To the Wanna Be's who really want to race or engage in substantive dialog (and many do) your input is welcome and interesting, and you will find nothing but assistance from Ryan and Team Throttle Up to help you get up to speed.
SQ

yes...as of now I probably fit the wanabe catagory, but with a vested interest. Working as a medic with OPA I am getting as much exposure to the sport as I can at the present time. When I finish school, I would like to race. I do however have a lot of time racing motorcycles, atv's, carsand other types of boats. I have seen how many different orginizations run various types of events... from time to time I have talked about the safety side boats. I am not a boat builder, but I volunteer my time for your safety. I spend what little money I have to go to races to do it. My years as a medic, firefighter, and medical director for a race orgination have taught me a LOT about the kenetics of crashes and the related injuries. My only goal in that arena is to see you step onto the dock and greet your family and friends after the race.

[stevequick]

[QUOTE=phragle;265501]

yes...as of now I probably fit the wanabe catagory, but with a vested interest. Working as a medic with OPA I am getting as much exposure to the sport as I can at the present time. When I finish school, I would like to race. I do however have a lot of time racing motorcycles, atv's, carsand other types of boats. I have seen how many different orginizations run various types of events... from time to time I have talked about the safety side boats. I am not a boat builder, but I volunteer my time for your safety. I spend what little money I have to go to races to do it. My years as a medic, firefighter, and medical director for a race orgination have taught me a LOT about the kenetics of crashes and the related injuries. My only goal in that arena is to see you step onto the dock and greet your family and friends after the race.

We are all indebted to you and all the people who do what you do. You are NEVER taken for granted.
SQ

[Tague]

I believe complete motor inspections that are a open book would help the sport. I have watched several boats get away with alot. When that is repeated over and over it leaves a bad taste. Some classes have been destroyed by cheating, but nodody wants to call out the cheater. The people in charge are afraid they might lose that boat at their next race. What happens instead is that boat shows up and the other boats start dropping out little by little. There is alot of improvment that could happen here, One of the best inspections I seen in years was at St. Clair with a inspector named Anthony Smith and that was several years ago.

Just my 2 cents
ALVIN

Cheating goes on, there is no question about it. There are rules in the book on protests,teardowns and penalty's. If I knew for a fact that one of the other teams in my class was cheating. I would spend the money and tear them down in a second. Most teams that I have seen get there butt's handed to them and can't take loosing. There afraid to tear the winner down because how would that look if nothing is found. That's why the best way to handle possible cheating is within the class.