Let's try a different approach

[MarylandMark]

Racing with "speed limits" is the great equalizer.

Water, testing, setup, experience, etc should do that. Match the machines- HP/LB ratio, LOA/HP or whatever. I don't know what works or doesn't in this realm. I don't know boat racing so I'll say cars- watching a ZR1 Vette run 55MPH is boring after 5 minutes even if the the chick behind the wheel is naked. Watching a dude running the same car 168MPH is exciting even if he looks like Catmando.

20 year old resin bucket? You may win OC, MD since it is an ocean race.

Brand new Fountain? You may win Cambridge, MD since it is a protected water race.

[Top Banana]

Thought I would share this with you. This is a letter from Betty Cook to me, back in the 70's. She is writing about the problems we are having in offshore racing and some possible solutions.

Betty and Howard Arneson and I, tried to get something really radical going back then.......we actually thought there might be some merit in having a doctor on a helicopter over the racers...just in case. We were voted down.

Everything wasn't as sunny and glory filled as you might believe, back in the day.

[Tague]

It is my understanding that p-class racing was started so that the poker run guy or the weekend warrior had a place to race. Because as I said before it is not for everyone. P class allows you to get your start and see if you like racing with basically a pleasure boat. And when your ready to made the investment to not gps race then you can pick the class or group that you want to race with. Or stick to P-Class for some it is a lot more fun.

As for the cost of a boat...I found a p-boat for sale for $4500.00
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/boa/1239900646.html

[Ratickle]

It is my understanding that p-class racing was started so that the poker run guy or the weekend warrior had a place to race. Because as I said before it is not for everyone. P class allows you to get your start and see if you like racing with basically a pleasure boat. And when your ready to made the investment to not gps race then you can pick the class or group that you want to race with. Or stick to P-Class for some it is a lot more fun.

As for the cost of a boat...I found a p-boat for sale for $4500.00
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/boa/1239900646.html

I agree with P class as it pertains to someone who is not going to travel much and can really race their "pleasure" boat two or three times a year. But, as I said, we can't even get those rules identical. Or is my shortened version of the rules wrong?

If we want boat count, (and why the heck wouldn't we), we need to standardize the rules. This year, not next after the changes, I could have raced OSS in Cumberland, Oss in LOTO, OPA in St Clair, OPA in Harrison, and SBI in Michigan City within an 10 hour drive. Plus grabbed a couple more OPA races, and 1 more SBI race, if I were willing to drive 12 hours.

Then made the long haul to the worlds.

But only if the rules had been standardized.

[sbracing]

Water, testing, setup, experience, etc should do that. Match the machines- HP/LB ratio, LOA/HP or whatever. I don't know what works or doesn't in this realm. I don't know boat racing so I'll say cars- watching a ZR1 Vette run 55MPH is boring after 5 minutes even if the the chick behind the wheel is naked. Watching a dude running the same car 168MPH is exciting even if he looks like Catmando.

20 year old resin bucket? You may win OC, MD since it is an ocean race.

Brand new Fountain? You may win Cambridge, MD since it is a protected water race.

Two observations:

1 - matching the machines involves more officials ,inspections and teardowns.

2 - if you have ever been to any car race, it is the door to door racing that
makes it exciting (as a fan or racer), not necessarily the top speed.

[Chris]

Water, testing, setup, experience, etc should do that. Match the machines- HP/LB ratio, LOA/HP or whatever. I don't know what works or doesn't in this realm. I don't know boat racing so I'll say cars- watching a ZR1 Vette run 55MPH is boring after 5 minutes even if the the chick behind the wheel is naked. Watching a dude running the same car 168MPH is exciting even if he looks like Catmando.

20 year old resin bucket? You may win OC, MD since it is an ocean race.

Brand new Fountain? You may win Cambridge, MD since it is a protected water race.

Billy Martin won last year's Cambridge race with a 30-year-old Cigarette with a back seat, chrome horns on the deck and rod holders in the gunwhales. Then he buzzed the dock.
I've seen alot of racing and it ranks up there as one of my favorite moments.

Back to the topic- that has been a major issue with class racing- one manufacturer comes up with something and instantly makes everyone else obsolete. So everyone else either needs a new $400K boat or thet get used to losing- and losing sponsors.

[Chris]

Two observations:

1 - matching the machines involves more officials ,inspections and teardowns.

.

That puts you firmly back where the guy with the thick wallet will always win. Especially when that wallet supports not only his own racing activities but the sanctioning body as well.

[phragle]

he put on a hell of a show at OC this year too....

[Ratickle]

Back to the topic- that has been a major issue with class racing- one manufacturer comes up with something and instantly makes everyone else obsolete. So everyone else either needs a new $400K boat or thet get used to losing- and losing sponsors.

They do it with weight restrictions, plate restrictions, or wing restrictions in autos.

They used to do it, maybe still do?, with weight restrictions in Factory Classes.

[rchevelle71]

They do it with weight restrictions, plate restrictions, or wing restrictions in autos.

They used to do it, maybe still do?, with weight restrictions in Factory Classes.

what factory classes??? F-1 and 2 have no boats??

[Ratickle]

what factory classes??? F-1 and 2 have no boats??

They used to.

And I think they were slowed by weight, (The 39 Skater? Anyone?).

[Chris]

Sure, there are lots of ways to match up the boats. But the GPS is the easiest way to do it AND it tosses expensive tech inspections, protests and many avenues of cheating right out the window.

I've heard repetitive knocks against the GPS classes over the years, but not one time have I ever heard a reasonable explanation why people would be opposed to it. Most times I hear "that's not real racing". But I'm not sure what that means.

[skaterdave]

If we want boat count, (and why the heck wouldn't we), we need to standardize the rules. This year, not next after the changes, I could have raced OSS in Cumberland, Oss in LOTO, OPA in St Clair, OPA in Harrison, and SBI in Michigan City within an 10 hour drive. Plus grabbed a couple more OPA races, and 1 more SBI race, if I were willing to drive 12 hours.

Then made the long haul to the worlds.

But only if the rules had been standardized.[/QUOTE]



what P-class rules need to be standardized? they are pretty much all the same, both sbi and opa. are you saying that since sbi and opa are alittle different this is why you don't race??

the only major difference is the type of gps. sbi uses a garmin which most boaters have and is not a big deal to purchase and it is also a good piece of equipment to have aboard.

opa's version of gps is something that is used in trucking and costs a few hundred $$$$s. agian no big deal and smitty has 1 or 2 avialible as loaners if you just wanna run a single race to try it out.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Sure, there are lots of ways to match up the boats. But the GPS is the easiest way to do it AND it tosses expensive tech inspections, protests and many avenues of cheating right out the window.

I've heard repetitive knocks against the GPS classes over the years, but not one time have I ever heard a reasonable explanation why people would be opposed to it. Most times I hear "that's not real racing". But I'm not sure what that means.

No doubt GPS is the easiest way and it opens the door to all boats.

I enjoy the process of finding everything a boat has. In years past you chose boats, power and drive options to come up with the best contender.

I find it satisfying to work on set up and better the boat with in a defined set of rules.

To each his own. Neither way satisfies everyone. Together they fill the program.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

That puts you firmly back where the guy with the thick wallet will always win.

It is possible to surmise the thick wallet still wins in bracket racing. The bigger boat with the biggest power limited to a given speed will usually have an advantage.

[Ratickle]

If we want boat count, (and why the heck wouldn't we), we need to standardize the rules. This year, not next after the changes, I could have raced OSS in Cumberland, Oss in LOTO, OPA in St Clair, OPA in Harrison, and SBI in Michigan City within an 10 hour drive. Plus grabbed a couple more OPA races, and 1 more SBI race, if I were willing to drive 12 hours.

Then made the long haul to the worlds.

But only if the rules had been standardized.

what P-class rules need to be standardized? they are pretty much all the same, both sbi and opa. are you saying that since sbi and opa are alittle different this is why you don't race??

the only major difference is the type of gps. sbi uses a garmin which most boaters have and is not a big deal to purchase and it is also a good piece of equipment to have aboard.

opa's version of gps is something that is used in trucking and costs a few hundred $$$$s. agian no big deal and smitty has 1 or 2 avialible as loaners if you just wanna run a single race to try it out.[/QUOTE]

Look at the classes. Some V only, Some average speed, Some twins, Some singles only, Some Maximum speed, etc.

Biut I don't really want to race bracket classes. I want to run an SVL or Stock Outboard. And in Stock outboard, you can't even run it except in SBI. You're back in P classes elsewhere.

[Ratickle]

It is possible to surmise the thick wallet still wins in bracket racing. The bigger boat with the biggest power limited to a given speed will usually have an advantage.

And as in Drag brackets. He who can afford the best computer system....

[Ratickle]

Here's what I have.

Class 500 OPA, 75mph maximum speed GPS, 30' maximum size, Vees only
Class 400 OPA, 85mph maximum speed GPS, Vees only


SBI P5, 75mph maximum speed GPS, 30' and under single engine
SBI P4, 85mph maximun speed GPS, no limitations


Class 4 OSS, 65mph average calculated plus timed, single engine only or twin outboard 24' to 30'
Class 3 OSS, 75mph average calculated plus timed, no limitations
Class 2 OSS, 85mph average calculated plus timed, no limitations


Have I read the rules wrong?

I hate quoting myself, but here is the way the rules read to me.

[WHEELMAN]

Its called offshore racing. A real ocean race and a lot of people would be suprised how old and new boats are competive in the same class. Not about who gets to the turn first.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Its called offshore racing. A real ocean race and a lot of people would be suprised how old and new boats are competive in the same class. Not about who gets to the turn first.

The open water races are better. I wish we would move back to longer courses in open water.