The Great Unification

[Mike A.]

racers should not make the rules as i have said.

if offshore racing is not heavily supported with tv...you have to bring it closer to the fans...we have neither in the usa! how can we entertain??????....it's the only question that needs to get answered right now!

Joe,

Yours is an easy question to answer, but it requires large amounts of money. Like it or not, there is no magical idea or change that will get you TV, large crowds, or an entertaining product that will attract sponsors, etc. Either develop a business plan and secure substantial capital to implement that plan or forget about it. Stated another way: The sport cannot be fixed for free.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

we run as many cameras as 8 at a time and have all kinds of cool techno stuff. but, no ones buying it, then what good is it?

"With todays technology utilizing numerous cameras on boats and flying a great show could be produced."....we could but, we don't...so now what?

i want to do what i want...i want to do it when i feel like it...i don't want to have to test...i want to be part of making the rules....and by the way i want to win and get paid for it! lol

All I am saying is for years we have been making it spectator friendly. What for really. You can't charge admission. You can't count on ticket sales.

Racing was better when it was racing. Before the concessions for spectators.

X cat has the biggest fleets currently and from What I have read they are few spectators.

Joey, I am not talking about You and all your cameras. I am talking about the whole fleet of cameras used to produced as a show of the race. Not the individual highlight reals.

[audacity]

us and aqua mania have been working on developing systems....for everyone.

"All I am saying is for years we have been making it spectator friendly. What for really. You can't charge admission. You can't count on ticket sales." well, they figured out a way to take my money to see airplanes race this weekend! lol....imagine that, airplanes flying and you gotta pay to watch...

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Imagine that. Someone like Red Bull put up a lot of money.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Joey, I have heard the Red Bull air races are pretty cool. I have never been or seen one on TV. Do they let jets compete with the prop planes?

[Mike A.]

Imagine that. Someone like Red Bull put up a lot of money.

It is not a question of "Red Bull" or some large company like that putting up money. Red Bull is a sponsor. Sponsor money is used for many things: prize purse, promotions, etc. That is not the same as the investment capital required to build the product. Rather, sponsor money is used to grow the sport. Big difference. Like it or not, however, there is no product right now. None can be built from what exists now. This conversation about cameras, offshore vs. inshore, etc. is fun, but if anyone thinks picking one of these ideas and running with it is the answer, you are wrong.

Business plan + investment capital + execution of plan = (hopefully) profitable product. If you cannot figure out a way for your capital supplier to actually get an acceptable rate of return (i.e. MAKE MONEY$$$$$$) on that investment then fogeddaboutit. No free fix, magic elixir, turd polish...

[Sean Stinson]

I'll take a shot at it for F1...alot of these guys were in it from 2000 to 2004

Team BRE Bofamonta (son) went back to racing cars...and took Dad with him
Team Volocity...Steve K and Bob race the VR1 in select races
Volocity....they race in P5 in SBI in select races...
Activator...BJ no longer racers and Mark S dose not either
Activator...Mark K races in J.D. Byrider in SC and I move to my Dragon
Activator...Tiquila...both racers retired....
Warlock.....retired Scotty B is in Gieco...
Warlock...Richey Rich not racing anymore Ryan also race in some F1 races..now in SS
Warlock..Allen C moved to SVL and now SS driver dose not race anymore
Fountain..Trent still runs
Fountain...Frank S runs in SV
Fountain from Oh. retired
Fountain from OH husband and wife...retired
Fountain...Lute D. dose not race anymore..
Fountain...Benny R is running in SV and Mitch M. retired
Kryptonite...Randy move to SVL and Glenn races in Class 5 in OPA
Formula...both racers retired
Formula...both racers retired
Pantara...Joey dose not race more

There are more out there...that I just can't remember...

I'm sure there is more but from what I can remember today there are about 17 - 19 F1 racers from 2000 to 2004 that still race today...

You forgot all the West Coast guys De La Torre, the showbiz boat, Tom Brunner ran an F1 I ran a F1 as well as a F2 as well as other stuff

[audacity]

Joey, I have heard the Red Bull air races are pretty cool. I have never been or seen one on TV. Do they let jets compete with the prop planes?

i'm sure they don't...lol

mike a. hit it on the head...we need a product to sell...

[Heatwave]

Business plan + investment capital + execution of plan = (hopefully) profitable product. If you cannot figure out a way for your capital supplier to actually get an acceptable rate of return (i.e. MAKE MONEY$$$$$$) on that investment then fogeddaboutit. No free fix, magic elixir, turd polish...[/QUOTE]

Maybe this will happen one day, but in the meantime....wouldn't it be nice if the racers could take some positive steps forward, forget the past problems, compromise a little here and there and turn these events that the producers work hard and long to put together into something of substance...start with SIB and then Sarasota...and move on from there...just showing up seems to me to be half the battle.

[Sean Stinson]

i'm sure they don't...lol

mike a. hit it on the head...we need a product to sell...

Until you learn how to play in the same sandbox you don't have anything but the same thing that isn't doing anything!!!

[audacity]

as offshore racers we should be looking to martin sanborn and or charlie haimes to ask how we can make it better with what we have to work with in the usa.

[Steve Miklos]

we run as many cameras as 8 at a time and have all kinds of cool techno stuff. but, no ones buying it, then what good is it?

"With todays technology utilizing numerous cameras on boats and flying a great show could be produced."....we could but, we don't...so now what?

i want to do what i want...i want to do it when i feel like it...i don't want to have to test...i want to be part of making the rules....and by the way i want to win and get paid for it! lol

That's pretty accurate!
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

as offshore racers we should be looking to martin sanborn and or charlie haimes to ask how we can make it better with what we have to work with in the usa.

Whenever Martin and I speak he, Mike A and I are on the same page.
Steve

[Steve Miklos]

A member of LLC
,was given that "OPTION " If you want to make rules and safety options ,get out of you're boat and make rules not race ) ,
he took the offer ,for the betterment of his class .They still revolted .

No matter ,you are still correct .Run it ,or race it ,NOT both .

That is a double edge sword.

I watched for years as current racers bamboozled old racers/nice guys who were officials to get what they wanted and chased away the bulk of the racers.
I remember Mike A. and I botching the restart in Sarasota P class race because we were working on new protocols for cautions periods during the yellow flag period. You need someone non biased current on equipment and racing in a technical position. If not you have old guys (with their allegiances) who raced 10-15 years ago or Mercury Racing to consult to make decisions. Do you want an official taking your competitors word on how things should be done? Not eveyone is political enough to get their say many times the nice guys just leave the sport.

The job Mike A. and the LLC conned me into was to be 90 days while we found a permanent candidate. It became clear by the amount of BS the racers and manufacturers were feeding us that it was a hard job. We talked to many people no one wanted the job and I was and have always been a racer.

The classes we made live on today in a somewhat tortured no longer commercially viable means.

Think of this Super V and Super V lite alone generated 400k per year in cash an international press pool and additional cash prize money/tangiable purchase incentives. in 2002/2003

While some cannot figure out why Mike and I bring up the past others know. I was around to witness John Kenyon's A and B class that were as big as Factory class destroyed by allowing a few key events (dragon lady in B class Fabio Buzzi in A class) This combined 40+ boat fleet was reduced to 8 boats. Sound familiar? Gene told us this had happened before and he put some base control in place before Factory got launched. Truth be told Gene wanted an X dimension rule from day one and insisted on the homologation rule. He also was quick to show us the picture of the 1st 24 Skater taken with 4 decks (to look like 5 complete boats) to circumvent the 5 hull and deck homologation rule.

Live and learn or repeat and fail

SIB and Sarasota are a great start to getting ontrack.
Steve

[THEJOKER]

I am sure Brian will correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think he is referring to is what is better known as A class

Nope SVL. Ask Miklos....it was the last year before the smaller motors.

[Moving2Miami]

It is not a question of "Red Bull" or some large company like that putting up money. Red Bull is a sponsor. Sponsor money is used for many things: prize purse, promotions, etc. That is not the same as the investment capital required to build the product. Rather, sponsor money is used to grow the sport. Big difference. Like it or not, however, there is no product right now. None can be built from what exists now. This conversation about cameras, offshore vs. inshore, etc. is fun, but if anyone thinks picking one of these ideas and running with it is the answer, you are wrong.

Business plan + investment capital + execution of plan = (hopefully) profitable product. If you cannot figure out a way for your capital supplier to actually get an acceptable rate of return (i.e. MAKE MONEY$$$$$$) on that investment then fogeddaboutit. No free fix, magic elixir, turd polish...

Actually, Red Bull owns the series...

[Scotty B]

yours is an easy question to answer, but it requires large amounts of money. Like it or not, there is no magical idea or change that will get you tv, large crowds, or an entertaining product that will attract sponsors, etc. Either develop a business plan and secure substantial capital to implement that plan or forget about it. Stated another way: The sport cannot be fixed for free.

bingo!!!

[Steve Miklos]

A member of LLC
,was given that "OPTION " If you want to make rules and safety options ,get out of youre boat and make rules not race ) ,
he took the offer ,for the betterment of his class .They still revolted .

No matter ,you are still correct .Run it ,or race it ,NOT both .

Actually the original demand was for me to leave the sport in any capacity for 10 years. I agreed (to protect the LLC cash outlay) and Mike made every concession they asked for even giving up full control of the rules.

Mob mentality being just that they did not take their own deal/offer/demands and started OSS.
When Bob Bull took over the LLC with everything still in place less Mike and Steve they boycotted him.

Clearly the racers have made Offshore racings bed. It is their turn to fix it. Start supporting anyone silly enough to offer you a place to race immediately or cut the lid off your boat/planter.
Steve

[Sean Stinson]

Clearly the racers have made Offshore racings bed. It is their turn to fix it. Start supporting anyone silly enough to offer you a place to race immediately or cut the lid off your boat/planter.
Steve

I think that is the route racing is going down if something doesn't change!!! Those are some expensive planters!!!!

[SVL66]

I think that is the route racing is going down if something doesn't change!!! Those are some expensive planters!!!!

Just need expensive plants..if you know what I mean