The Great Unification

[Ratickle]

The only thing I can relate it to is allowing Formula 1 suspensions, chassis, and tires in NASCAR. Somewhere there have to be rules to keep the competition close. Otherwise the biggest wallet wins every time.

The problem everyone faces, what are those rules. And, can they be discussed and tweaked without everyone wanting to kill each other. Pat and Rik have valid points. However, you're never gonna see a Bravo in the turbine class......

[Ratickle]

One of the points that have to be made because of the past, Mercury put a very large chunk of money into Offshore racing to get many of the advantages they received rules wise. The same thing is true with things like Hoosier tires or Goodyear tires etc for their respective sports..........


I personally do not know what the answer is...

I do know, Offshore cannot afford to obsolete teams like they have in the past with rules changes that all of a sudden make almost every boat in a class obsolete because of a new technical improvement.

Once again, what if NASCAR all of a sudden allowed the latest Formula 1 technology?

[Rik]

Rik, I see and understand your point.

The best I can tell out of 20 some odd classes I believe there are only a few spec classes left in which you are not welcome. 850's, Cat light, SVL. Yes they are primarily OSS based but, they have run in all three series. Well not sure that is true for 850. Anyway there seems to be plenty of opportunity to me.

I agree. OSS just seems (in the past) a more promoted series than the others. Be that good or be that bad, I'm not involved either way. When people ask about race boats, they automatically see what is most popular and follow the leader so to speak and thus "when" one group has a lock it thwarts others attempts to enter other classes automatically. It's just the nature of the beast.

[Rik]

One of the points that have to be made because of the past, Mercury put a very large chunk of money into Offshore racing to get many of the advantages they received rules wise. The same thing is true with things like Hoosier tires or Goodyear tires etc for their respective sports..........


I personally do not know what the answer is...

I do know, Offshore cannot afford to obsolete teams like they have in the past with rules changes that all of a sudden make almost every boat in a class obsolete because of a new technical improvement.

Once again, what if NASCAR all of a sudden allowed the latest Formula 1 technology?

I'm talking outdrives here, (that last and offer lower cost of ownership) not computers, hulls and engines. Having a choice is not making it exclusive.

[Ratickle]

I'm talking outdrives here, (that last and offer lower cost of ownership) not computers, hulls and engines. Having a choice is not making it exclusive.

I understand that Rik. What I'm saying is Mercury spent an extremely large chunk of money in the past to get the advantage they enjoyed in the rules. It was not just drives, but complete propulsion packages.

Now, obviously they do not. But, if the rules are changed for a spec class and it makes a particular boat dominant, that also is not a good thing.

I've seen the demise of F1, F2, Supercat, etc. just because of that. It can't continue to be that way or there will never be an Offshore sport which can support race teams monetarily.

[Ratickle]

By the way. Has anyone driven identical boats except for Arnesons or Wisemans on one and Number 6's on the other????

Just curious.

[Wahoo 214]

Rik,
Our SV is Bravo only because it protects the value of our boats and assures equal boats and performance. The Bravos are also the weak link in the boats. Since Mercury has never showered OPA with $$$, I'm sure our class would listen to a plan that would move us to a more practical and economical drive.

[Wahoo 214]

Plus I have to dump about $6000 in my Bravo's before spring

[Ratickle]

Plus I have to dump about $6000 in my Bravo's before spring

. .

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Plus I have to dump about $6000 in my Bravo's before spring

[Wazzup Racing]

Other drives are not allowed.

One of the biggest problems in race boats is keeping costs down, and therefore competition at a high level. A number 6 boat, even though it is a Merc, will beat an identical Bravo boat every time because of its turning capabilities.

I have no idea about an Arneson in the same situation, but I suspect the same is true.

I honestly feel if the #6 boats were limited to the same gear ratio as the bravos, the racing would be very close. When the first 40's were built with #6's we beat them. It wasn't until they explored gear ratio's that are not available to the bravos, that they became dominate. I would welcome a heads up race, with the same ratio's.

[Bilgerat]

Maybe you should try turning around the corners instead of drifting, its not a nissan.

[Ratickle]

I honestly feel if the #6 boats were limited to the same gear ratio as the bravos, the racing would be very close. When the first 40's were built with #6's we beat them. It wasn't until they explored gear ratio's that are not available to the bravos, that they became dominate. I would welcome a heads up race, with the same ratio's.

You and Jim should discuss it. I always understood that the 6 boats would take turns much faster without spinning out. If you are correct, seems as if a simple rules change fixes the issue and the class is open to more boats.

Any idea on the surface drives?

Abd a goofy sort of question maybe. Anyone know why the drive height is limited to 1 inch above the boat bottom on Bravo's in SBI but no limitations on 6's?

[Bilgerat]

By the way is a Max Machine Worx, "bravo" drive allowed in OPA SV class definition? Skeg and bullet etc. are different than your IMCO or Merc.?

[Ratickle]

Maybe you should try turning around the corners instead of drifting, its not a nissan.

Welcome.

And what's the fun in that??????

Have you been watching the Fast and Furious Offshore version?????

[Wazzup Racing]

You and Jim should discuss it. I always understood that the 6 boats would take turns much faster without spinning out. If you are correct, seems as if a simple rules change fixes the issue and the class is open to more boats.

Any idea on the surface drives?

Abd a goofy sort of question maybe. Anyone know why the drive height is limited to 1 inch above the boat bottom on Bravo's in SBI but no limitations on 6's?

The 40 0n a #6 wants to dig the bow and spin. The 38 is faster in tight turns. The 40 needs wide sweeps, I think various race coarses would favor either boats.

[Rik]

I understand that Rik. What I'm saying is Mercury spent an extremely large chunk of money in the past to get the advantage they enjoyed in the rules. It was not just drives, but complete propulsion packages.

Now, obviously they do not. But, if the rules are changed for a spec class and it makes a particular boat dominant, that also is not a good thing.

I've seen the demise of F1, F2, Supercat, etc. just because of that. It can't continue to be that way or there will never be an Offshore sport which can support race teams monetarily.

The size of the chunk is debatable since it started with a rumored back door agreement with APBA and was grandfathered into OSS but belive me, the racers paid it not Mercury. It was rumor'd to be $50K over 3 yrs but was only paid for two. Merc sat back and collected all the way.

The demise of those classes have several external factors. Saftey played a large role in F2 when the SV's were far safer and faster with the same power. Then the $$ of running Bravo's put a lot of F2 teams in a pinch just as it did SCL before they all switched as it was less expensive to race a 6 than a Bravo. It was less expensive to purchase a Merc 750/6 package than it was to purchase a 525/6 package.. Go figure.

Then the state of the economy

[Rik]

Rik,
Our SV is Bravo only because it protects the value of our boats and assures equal boats and performance. The Bravos are also the weak link in the boats. Since Mercury has never showered OPA with $$$, I'm sure our class would listen to a plan that would move us to a more practical and economical drive.

Talk to me.

[Sean Stinson]

Damn an educational debate is actually taking place let me mark calendar!!!! The time is coming!!!!!

[Ratickle]

The size of the chunk is debatable since it started with a rumored back door agreement with APBA and was grandfathered into OSS but belive me, the racers paid it not Mercury. It was rumor'd to be $50K over 3 yrs but was only paid for two. Merc sat back and collected all the way.

The demise of those classes have several external factors. Saftey played a large role in F2 when the SV's were far safer and faster with the same power. Then the $$ of running Bravo's put a lot of F2 teams in a pinch just as it did SCL before they all switched as it was less expensive to race a 6 than a Bravo. It was less expensive to purchase a Merc 750/6 package than it was to purchase a 525/6 package.. Go figure.

Then the state of the economy

I would love to debate the demise of Supercat, F2, and F1. Those were premium classes that were growing by leaps and bounds but a few changes, not just one change granted, saw them disappear. You guys know most of it, I think I know some of it, but I am fearful the same thing will happen unless it is learned from and remembered......