The Great Unification

[Top Banana]

Rich....just for the sake of pushing this to the breaking point.......One Class.

If we make it too exotic, 50 foot cats with turbines, you rule out almost everyone, if we make it too simple, 20 foot deep vees with 100HP outboards, who will get excited from either a competitors or sponsors point of view?

So One Class...just like F1..... or Winston Cup ......(Sprint Cup means dirt cars to me)

What size and design of boat is allowed?

What kind of engine and drive system, so no one gets it all locked up?

If they are all equal and fast enough to be challenging, but not fast enough to get a fatality a season....and if everyone could leave their egos on the dock....it MIGHT, just might have a chance.

[stevequick]

Random thoughts:

This is exactly what the TV producers faced in every race for the past 25 years. Each race boat team and class are convinced that they are more exciting than anyone else. Please consider the following:

1.Each helicopter/camera team costs quite a bit of money, since the sport can't afford more than 2 or 3 at an event, the odds are that most of your "money shots" will occur with no camera pointed in your direction. While you can certainly increase the number of cameras that cost to cover every boat for the entire race is prohibitive. On boards help but there is a cost there as well in editing and shot sheets.

2. The concept of showing "The most exciting parts" when dealing with 8-10-12 classes is NOT good television for the average viewer and only confuses him or her. Bottom line the only thing better than showing two classes...is showing one class.

3. You may think that you are down right amazing after vaulting 15-20 feet in the air.... but without a competition context it means nothing to the average snook (not to mention the fact that your props are out of the water and therefore your horsepower is not pushing you forward). In addition video flattens waves and also the height of your air unless the pilot and camera man get into some hairy NNRT like positions. At the end of the day nothing you could do with an F-1 boat comes close to those Extreme Motorcycle jumping guys anyway. The point is, to misquote a political pundit "It's about the racing, stupid!".

4. Interviews and personality development is a major piece as well. For a number of years (20) I had the role of conducting most of the pre and post race interviews for the various networks (pretty good feat considering I also flew all of the races to create the story, and had to race to and from the airport). The problem was always the same.... bland vanilla comments or over the top screaming. Very few people gave good candid comments or referred to other racers with anything but platitudes. "I love good ol' Ralph...He's a great competitor" is something that nobody wants to watch or hear. "Ralph is crafty and I wonder if his lower units will pass inspection"...is LOT more interesting...but nobody said it. Watch Tony Stewart...He's a genius at creating interest. .... or Michael Waltrip, who has low talent but high fan appeal. The point is neither of these guys are constantly shouting "In your face" nonsense, but both of them glue people to the tube and speak candidly to the camera. The sport needs good guys and bad guys but most of all it needs people who consistently race each other and who become familiar to the viewer. Again, you can't develop those relationships with a bunch of classes separating the key players.

As I read this thread I see the same old issue. Guys in 12 classes all talking about getting sponsorships based on TV coverage..... This why you have burned through so many corporate backers....... Because there is not enough bang for the buck if you don't solve the competition model....before....you do anything else.


This is not the first time that Offshore has been on TV in fact it has been on for almost 30 years and on at least 8 networks..........Something has to change because doing the same things will yield the same result.

T2x

Now we are getting somewhere. Let's make sure the people who need to hear this, hear it.
SQ

[Ratickle]

I'm trying to stay out of your thread but,

if we want to make it work well, Rich has a very good point. One of the things I've always wondered from a production standpoint. Why doesn't every chopper out there have a roaming TV guy on it with a live link to a big screen back at the dock/pit area.

The choppers are there anyway. The technology certainly exists. What has been the sticking point and would the boat owners allow camera men in their rigs for these events?

You give Rich that much to work with and I guarantee good results for a TV show. Hell, he can add the voice later.....

Just have to find someone to argue with him.. Any volunteers???

[XtremeRacing]

From what i understand CBS will have their own talent doing the play by play, not sure who yet. We hope to find out more in Marathin, stay tune.

[Sean Stinson]

I am going to try and make it to Marathon....That week is very tough for me but I will try to be there!!!!

[MANITIE]

Random thoughts:

This is exactly what the TV producers faced in every race for the past 25 years. Each race boat team and class are convinced that they are more exciting than anyone else. Please consider the following:

1.Each helicopter/camera team costs quite a bit of money, since the sport can't afford more than 2 or 3 at an event, the odds are that most of your "money shots" will occur with no camera pointed in your direction. While you can certainly increase the number of cameras that cost to cover every boat for the entire race is prohibitive. On boards help but there is a cost there as well in editing and shot sheets.

2. The concept of showing "The most exciting parts" when dealing with 8-10-12 classes is NOT good television for the average viewer and only confuses him or her. Bottom line the only thing better than showing two classes...is showing one class.

3. You may think that you are down right amazing after vaulting 15-20 feet in the air.... but without a competition context it means nothing to the average snook (not to mention the fact that your props are out of the water and therefore your horsepower is not pushing you forward). In addition video flattens waves and also the height of your air unless the pilot and camera man get into some hairy NNRT like positions. At the end of the day nothing you could do with an F-1 boat comes close to those Extreme Motorcycle jumping guys anyway. The point is, to misquote a political pundit "It's about the racing, stupid!".

4. Interviews and personality development is a major piece as well. For a number of years (20) I had the role of conducting most of the pre and post race interviews for the various networks (pretty good feat considering I also flew all of the races to create the story, and had to race to and from the airport). The problem was always the same.... bland vanilla comments or over the top screaming. Very few people gave good candid comments or referred to other racers with anything but platitudes. "I love good ol' Ralph...He's a great competitor" is something that nobody wants to watch or hear. "Ralph is crafty and I wonder if his lower units will pass inspection"...is LOT more interesting...but nobody said it. Watch Tony Stewart...He's a genius at creating interest. .... or Michael Waltrip, who has low talent but high fan appeal. The point is neither of these guys are constantly shouting "In your face" nonsense, but both of them glue people to the tube and speak candidly to the camera. The sport needs good guys and bad guys but most of all it needs people who consistently race each other and who become familiar to the viewer. Again, you can't develop those relationships with a bunch of classes separating the key players.

As I read this thread I see the same old issue. Guys in 12 classes all talking about getting sponsorships based on TV coverage..... This why you have burned through so many corporate backers....... Because there is not enough bang for the buck if you don't solve the competition model....before....you do anything else.


This is not the first time that Offshore has been on TV in fact it has been on for almost 30 years and on at least 8 networks..........Something has to change because doing the same things will yield the same result.

T2x

Rich....in the perfect world that would be great...maybe 3 or 4 classes...but you have been around this sport for a long time and have seen a lot......no Org can get the 10 -15 boat count in 3 to 4 classes.... We all agree with you, that less class's and more boats per class is the answer for compitition and the sport....but as you can see...this has not had much success over the years....for that to happen...the racers would have to committ to building a boat to fit one of the 3 classes only...most teams with money are building the big cats...big HP or Turbines....the small guys can't afford to buy a new boat....not to mention would have to sell there current boat in this crazy market....I don't see any Org thats going to abanded there current teams that have been supporting there org to take there class away from them....

There is no good answer to this...other then to work at what we have here in todays Offshore...personally...all we can do is show up an race...and remember to put on a show for the fans and promote our team and sport the best we can...

[stevequick]

I am going to try and make it to Marathon....That week is very tough for me but I will try to be there!!!!

Sean,
No pressure, but it sure would be great to have an unbiased appraisal of the TV situation. It's looking a lot like a duck. I'm sure many SO'ers would like to know if you think it is quacking like one. I hear what's up and what's next will be discussed.
SQ

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Hey Guys,

Here is some food for thought. Have been having some discussions with friends who run the WPPA (oversee Class 1 and X Cat) as well as some other overseas groups about where and when to maybe have a true world champs event.

Even though Ron Poli and I have our differences my thoughs are that it would be in the best interest of the parties I am chatting to that OSS/OPA are the preferred series of choice to team up with. Now Class 1 and X Cat boats are meant for Jersey water, so is it possible to hold an event in Jersey somewhere in November time frame (allowing time for boats to race and get back to Dubai for the rest of their series).

I know that Smitty and Augie and crew would show the intl teams some great hospitality and the water could be nice and demanding for the boats and spectators. Now can someone provide some realistic venues and time frames that I can pass on so we can try and make something work.

From the conversations I have had with friends in Australia and NZ there are a number of teams who would be keen to come and race if it was a proper world champs. I know many people who have had run in's with Carbonell and because of that it is a major reason why I am suggesting to friends in Dubai that an SBI event is not an option.

So bottom line guys, whats your thoughts.

Ned

Well Ned,

I raced in the World Championships in Atlantic City, New Jersey in October, 1989 .


1st thing came to my mind was Hyperthermia should something go wrong. In fact I wore a Wetsuit just in case...
October was pushing it. The year before was 3rd week in Sept which was not bad.
As Pete B said, Jupitor, Fl is already in the works and it is warm there.
I would expect some kind of seas there as well during the fall months.
I am sure the winds will always be blowing.

Just a thought !

[Ratickle]

From what i understand CBS will have their own talent doing the play by play, not sure who yet. We hope to find out more in Marathin, stay tune.

But what about having the team helicopters also have a cameraman? Possible? A lot more footage to choose from and edit.

[XtremeRacing]

They r also talking about on boards, all good ideas and options.

[Coach]

I helped Orange Beach get the first two races established... the APBA Offshore race in the fall of 2003 was a racing in paradise experience for everyone!

Ray

[H2O Full Throttle]

Hey Guys,

How about having Orange Beach as a location for a unified Class 1, X Cat, OSS, OPA worlds event.

Thoughts on this.

Ned

[TYPHOON]

Ned its already happening except its in Jupitor Florida. Havent you heard?
MD

[TYPHOON]

And Geico is sponsoring it and after all they have done for us who wouldnt show there apreaciation and suport his race. I would hate to be the team on the list that didnt show. After all they have sponsored a number of boat and feed many of our teams and family and oh yeh given out jackets and shirts and much ,much more. Jupitor worlds be there!!!!!
MD

[Coach]

Good point... noted.

[Ratickle]

Ned its already happening except its in Jupitor Florida. Havent you heard?
MD

The orgs have agreed? It fits into the open time frame for Wppa and OPA?

[Sean Stinson]

Well well well what a day I have had...and I feel like everyone to day had a very positive attitude for a TRUE unified Worlds....Stay tuned as I am a bit hesitant until after a couple more talks and a sitdown with parties that I met with TODAY to post anything that might be construed as an announcement....All I will say is that the people that I conversed with today all want the same thing....An unified Worlds!!!! Ned I will send you an email later today!!! I am bushed, I need a drink, and I need to relax for a moment!!! I feel like we took the first babystep today!!!!!

[ThrottleUp Props]

[QUOTE=Ratickle;217928]The orgs have agreed? It fits into the open time frame for Wppa and OPA?[/QUOTE

What class of the WPPA boats are being referred to? Class one races thru the weekend of Dec 12th. X-Cat may be racing in December as well after racing in Italy in Sept. What is the time frame your looking at Ned? Shipping boats to the US is a tall order (time).

Julie

[DPT MOTORSPORTS]

I most definately like where this is heading. Not everyone may be happy with the final result but it is for the sport in general and what may help to take it back to where it needs to be.

I DEEPLY COMMEND ALL THE PARTIES WHO HAVE BEEN LOOKING A WORKING TO MAKE THIS A REALITY!!!!

KEEP UP THE HARD WORK,

DPT

[Sean Stinson]

[QUOTE=ThrottleUp Props;217947]

The orgs have agreed? It fits into the open time frame for Wppa and OPA?[/QUOTE

What class of the WPPA boats are being referred to? Class one races thru the weekend of Dec 12th. X-Cat may be racing in December as well after racing in Italy in Sept. What is the time frame your looking at Ned? Shipping boats to the US is a tall order (time).

Julie

I can step in just a bit here Julie.....Lines of communication are being opened with Class 1 and X Cat to do a true unified worlds....No dates have been tossed around as of yet but just lines of communication!!! Ned correct me if I have anything wrong or if you have any new updates as of yesterday!!!