Wow...almost 12 boats race in Miami!

[Sean H]

I hear an intellectual p3nis measuring contest coming up.

I was just wondering if he had actually seen what had happened yet before he started stating a boat was 'swiss cheese'...

I already know the answer, but its fun watching others grasp for straws.

[Big Time]

I was just wondering if he had actually seen what had happened yet before he started stating a boat was 'swiss cheese'...

I already know the answer, but its fun watching others grasp for straws.

So what did happen? Or what caused the damage to the baot?

[Chris]

Why, in a boat designed to go 200+ is there water intrusion from a hull breach? when you consider the damage and shrapnel of a 180-200 crash, one would think the cockpit would be a thick cf tub impervious from the top as well as the bottom. what good is a canopy with roll cage, small windows with thick plastic etc, when a crash at that speed the boat is coming apart and the bottom of the cockpit is swiss cheese.

And you would think a 2.5 million dollar F-1 car could handle some bouncing off of an occasional wall...

You can break anything. Bang it hard enough, enough times and it'll bust. Tom Gentry was running 50 MPH slower with about double the power about 20 years ago- and that boat is still around. I think it's even in the classifieds.

The laws of physics have not been repealed. And we really don't have any new materials or techniques in the last decade or so. So faster means lighter and that means more breakable.

[phragle]

I hear an intellectual p3nis measuring contest coming up.

and I wasn't speculating as to the damage why's and how comes.. only that in my opinion..it is possible to afford much greater protection to the occupants... an indy car hits the wall at 200, car desinegrates, driver in carbon fiber tub bounces along hopefully in one piece. drag boat wipes out at 200, boat is obliterated, driver in carbon capsule floats untill rescue gets there. the technology is there,just needs to be adapted. the desire to pay the weight and dollar penalties isn't

[Ratickle]

Rob did ask a very good question I'm waiting to hear about. Just because the hull sponson delaminated, why would water get into the cockpit?

[RPM]

Rob did ask a very good question I'm waiting to hear about. Just because the hull sponson delaminated, why would water get into the cockpit?

I'm no expert by all means but I have been in the JBS Mystic. The hull has no bulkheads.. Well it does but it's a bunch of cross bracing...almost like an aircraft. The delamination on the JBS hull was half as long as the boat and severe. I'd speculate the water just fed itself through the hull and into the cockpit. I've got a pic of the inside of the boat and you can see into the sponsons from the drivers seat. I'll look for the photo...

[Sean H]

I'm no expert by all means but I have been in the JBS Mystic. The hull has no bulkheads.. Well it does but it's a bunch of cross bracing...almost like an aircraft. The delamination on the JBS hull was half as long as the boat and severe. I'd speculate the water just fed itself through the hull and into the cockpit. I've got a pic of the inside of the boat and you can see into the sponsons from the drivers seat. I'll look for the photo...

actually that boat isn't x-braced like the others.... its different.

[Sean H]

Rob did ask a very good question I'm waiting to hear about. Just because the hull sponson delaminated, why would water get into the cockpit?

vents, blowers, rigging tubes, a ton of electronic equipment... various places.

[RPM]

actually that boat isn't x-braced... it's a traditional stringer/bulkhead system, all the other mystics are X'd.

I stand corrected..... How ya doing Sean.. Whens your next race..

[Sean H]

I stand corrected..... How ya doing Sean.. Whens your next race..

Cumberland.

[Sean H]

and I wasn't speculating as to the damage why's and how comes.. only that in my opinion..it is possible to afford much greater protection to the occupants... an indy car hits the wall at 200, car desinegrates, driver in carbon fiber tub bounces along hopefully in one piece. drag boat wipes out at 200, boat is obliterated, driver in carbon capsule floats untill rescue gets there. the technology is there,just needs to be adapted. the desire to pay the weight and dollar penalties isn't

You are just translating that water got into the cockpit into the boat is "swiss cheese" without knowing how much or where the water came from... just found it interesting.

and CF isn't the ultimate cockpit liner, the properties of carbon are limited in that scenario, kevlar is much better suited to that.

[T2x]

At first was considering a 28 Batboat with a canopy mod. Then, come to find out, they're not legal for anything except the bracket classes which make it kind of moot.

So, most likely a SVL with a four man canopy. However, I do want to figure out how to make it detachable. So, if we want to use it for pleasure between races, we can. I'd back down to just two boats most likely, but you never know.

So, anytime canopy comes up, I pay close attention.

Probably not a good idea to have a removable canopy..... As odd as it may seem...you probably are better off pleasure boating with the canopy. At single engine vee speeds a properly installed, reinforced F-16 canopy is acceptable. I suggest in line seating and a single canopy with a top hatch. You will have good visibility and if the rear seat is mounted a bit higher than the front each member of the crew can look forward.

I have never seen a removable system that works with the possible exception of the units used on Unlimiteds.

T2x

[T2x]

I'm no expert by all means but I have been in the JBS Mystic. The hull has no bulkheads.. Well it does but it's a bunch of cross bracing...almost like an aircraft. The delamination on the JBS hull was half as long as the boat and severe. I'd speculate the water just fed itself through the hull and into the cockpit. I've got a pic of the inside of the boat and you can see into the sponsons from the drivers seat. I'll look for the photo...

If you are correct the boat had no business in a race or using turbines for that matter. The whole point of a safety cockpit, as has been correctly pointed out previously on this thread, is to completely protect the crew from any water intrusion from any direction during an accident. At least two fatalities have occurred in past years from blasts of water coming from under the dashboard in a stuff scenario. The builder is supposed to create a complete cocoon..not simply a sturdy roof. In fact the entire hull should be built to shred away and still leave the cockpit (bottom, sides and top) intact. This is exactly why the Lavin cockpit standards are so complex...and so often ignored.

I hope this is not the actual case with this hull.

T2x

[Sean Stinson]

I have seen so many canopy systems fail....why??? The answer is exactly as T2x has stated over and over again the guidelines are ignored!!!!! The Lavin system is an extremely complex system and I am sure there is an added cost to build it to these guidelines BUT at the end of the day isnt it better to spend a little more and have an added sense of comfort that you're probably going to come home at the end of the day....As Rich stated a break away cockpit is probably the answer but if you get hydrauliced at 200 or for that matter even 150+ suffice it to say you are going to be having a very bad day....And in my case if it were to ever happen I would probably be pleading my case to St Pete at the pearly gates telling him to "Check again I have always been on the list, what do you mean I ain't on the list? Ok just let me grease you to get into the VIP room!!!"

Thats my brand of humor added to shed a bit of light on an extremely dangerous and life threatening situation!!!

[Sean H]

If you are correct the boat had no business in a race or using turbines for that matter. The whole point of a safety cockpit, as has been correctly pointed out previously on this thread, is to completely protect the crew from any water intrusion from any direction during an accident. At least two fatalities have occurred in past years from blasts of water coming from under the dashboard in a stuff scenario. The builder is supposed to create a complete cocoon..not simply a sturdy roof. In fact the entire hull should be built to shred away and still leave the cockpit (bottom, sides and top) intact. This is exactly why the Lavin cockpit standards are so complex...and so often ignored.

I hope this is not the actual case with this hull.

T2x

this is the inside of JBS, I am not sure what Rob meant when he said he could see into the sponsons.

[Sean H]

the two different bulkhead systems while we are at it.....

[phragle]

If you are correct the boat had no business in a race or using turbines for that matter. The whole point of a safety cockpit, as has been correctly pointed out previously on this thread, is to completely protect the crew from any water intrusion from any direction during an accident. At least two fatalities have occurred in past years from blasts of water coming from under the dashboard in a stuff scenario. The builder is supposed to create a complete cocoon..not simply a sturdy roof. In fact the entire hull should be built to shred away and still leave the cockpit (bottom, sides and top) intact. This is exactly why the Lavin cockpit standards are so complex...and so often ignored.

I hope this is not the actual case with this hull.

T2x

thats what I was trying to say, except you said it much better. The point I was attempting to make was that with a delam, there is much less kenetic energy than say a hard trip and stuff at 190. If they are getting hosed with a delam, what is going to happen when the ante is upped? with chuncks of steak knife sharp carbon mixed in with the firehose enema?

[BUIZILLA]

12 boats?

why bother?

[Steve Miklos]

I agree Acrylic is generally cosidered too brittle for a boat or aircraft window. The Linder window is 1/2" Polycarbonate with 1/8" Acrylic front and back so it can be polished to remove scratches. In an impact the structure and window can change shapes if the rate of change is much different the window will fail. The more brittle the window the greater chance of failure. Going thick 1" is a start but you would need some testing which is very difficult to change materials with any confidence.

With the speeds and weights of the turbine boats in calm water if the windows and structure hold you will need a HANS device or similar to keep your neck and skull base intact.
Steve

[RPM]

the two different bulkhead systems while we are at it.....

As I said I am no expert and it's very possible I am mistaken. Thanks for the shots and clearing that up Sean.