It's good to be King........

[Fast Shafts]

T2X,
I agree with the above post. There are always "inequities" with racing. A four engine 50' Cougar racing against a 36 Cigarette in Open I was not very fair-which caused teams either buy two boats (a cat and a V) or choose venues that suited their boat.

I would love to race "heads up" unfortunately, there are so many different types of hulls/engines/drives that the rules of earlier days won't work today.

The principle behind bracket racing is great-set up your boat for MAXIMUM speed, then race in that bracket. If all races were in the Ocean, boats should not break out, there have been very few breakouts in the ocean races. I don't think I've ever seen a breakout in Class 6 in the Ocean. I realize class 6 isn't the premire class, however it is the most affordable racing which makes this class successfull. As in other forms of racing, (drag racing) there are dozens of classes. Most don't want to watch the "unlimited VW class". Just because one may be in the smallest class doesn't deminish the fact that they are racers. We may not be in the premire class, however, we have the hearts of the premire class.

[Fast Shafts]

"Offshore" racing moved "inshore" years ago. Remember Sammy James stating he didn't want to race on a "Mid Western mud puddle" (lake Erie). Other race venues that were flat in the late 1970's-Tampa Bay Fl, Detroit Mich., Ft. Myers Fl, Lake St. Claire Mich, and Sandusky Ohio. Offshore racing in calm water is not new!!

[Sean Stinson]

I dont remember a Superboat being able to race an open boat other than they ran at the sametime. But Kaiser's Systems boat ran against Copelands boat more than once......Can I get a witness Rich

[Sean Stinson]

Sarasota, Ft Myers, Chicago, and other lake races have been known to be very rough!!!!

[Fast Shafts]

Sean,
I believe the rules (Open Class I) stated that any boat over 45' had no engine restrictions. This was the rule that Copeland exploited for his benefit.
On OCCASSION those venues could be rough. Just as any lake.

[smokeybandit]

T2X,
I agree with the above post. There are always "inequities" with racing. A four engine 50' Cougar racing against a 36 Cigarette in Open I was not very fair-which caused teams either buy two boats (a cat and a V) or choose venues that suited their boat.

I would love to race "heads up" unfortunately, there are so many different types of hulls/engines/drives that the rules of earlier days won't work today.

The principle behind bracket racing is great-set up your boat for MAXIMUM speed, then race in that bracket. If all races were in the Ocean, boats should not break out, there have been very few breakouts in the ocean races. I don't think I've ever seen a breakout in Class 6 in the Ocean. I realize class 6 isn't the premire class, however it is the most affordable racing which makes this class successfull. As in other forms of racing, (drag racing) there are dozens of classes. Most don't want to watch the "unlimited VW class". Just because one may be in the smallest class doesn't deminish the fact that they are racers. We may not be in the premire class, however, we have the hearts of the premire class.

I have to jump in on this one. The ocean should be the equalizer, not some pre-determined maximum speed. If you go ocean racing you rarely have to worry about maximum speed. The old stock classes usually drew the most entrants and were the most competitive. There were quite a few races where we had 20+ boats starting in the stock classes. We were all racers and all respected each other for going out there and beating the crap out of ourselves.

[Fast Shafts]

Smokey,
I agree. Lets only race in the Ocean!!!

[Sean Stinson]

Sean,
I believe the rules (Open Class I) stated that any boat over 45' had no engine restrictions. This was the rule that Copleland manipulated for his benefit.
On OCCASSION those venues could be rough. Just as any lake.

Thats not the case Superboat could run with no restrictions. Open class was limited to 1000 cubic inches normally aspirated.... If you super/charged or turbo/charged there was a penalty assessed to you wich knocked the cubic inches down to 714 cubic inches....hence the 355 cubic inch Gentry Turbo...I may be off a bit in the specs but very close

[Sean Stinson]

Also I believe Open Class was limited to 42'....Rich or Brownie could verify this or I can dig up an old UIM/APBA rule book from back in the day. Intially I think OPT used pretty much the same rules as well.....

[Fast Shafts]

Sean,
I'm at work so I dont have access to check now. I believe that the Superboat class was created after all the Open class boats bit*hed this wasn't fair. I think the rule was boats under 45' were restricted to 1000 CID.

[Sean Stinson]

I have to jump in on this one. The ocean should be the equalizer, not some pre-determined maximum speed. If you go ocean racing you rarely have to worry about maximum speed. The old stock classes usually drew the most entrants and were the most competitive. There were quite a few races where we had 20+ boats starting in the stock classes. We were all racers and all respected each other for going out there and beating the crap out of ourselves.

That was real racing....busted ribs, fat lips, and compressed spines were a common occurence back then as well.

Also the boats took a beating as well and submerges or sinkings also happened to the big as well as the small boats....

[Sean Stinson]

Sean,
I'm at work so I dont have access to check now. I believe that the Superboat class was created after all the Open class boats bit*hed this wasn't fair. I think the rule was boats under 45' were restricted to 1000 CID.

I am getting old so I might be off just a bit in specs so I will see if I can find an old rule book....As I stated earlier I thought 42' was the cutoff but I do know the CID limits were 1000 and approx 714 for Turbo-Super/Charged applications...

[Fast Shafts]

I'm getting old too, but I think it was 734 CID. It's all good-I love the sport!!

[Sean Stinson]

I'm getting old too, but I think it was 734 CID. It's all good-I love the sport!!

You could be right there I know it was cubic inch penalty assessment to level the playing field.....And if memory serves me correctly Superboat was born in 1983 and Al Copeland poured copius amounts of fundulation into that class!!!

[Dude! Sweet!]

Seems like the power/weight ratio equalizer is working for P1 right now (if one is to believe the press releases). I've seen some sucess with similar formulas work in various auto-racing venues as well.

The painful reality is the '80s and '90s unchecked spending and technology ultimately had an adverse impact on motorsports. Whether you're talking about superboats or a Williams full-active F1 car... The speed, the cost and the technological curve scared sanctioning bodies into legislating this stuff out of existence (often at the behest of competitors that couldn't keep up) and now in may respects and at many levels we're left with "spec racing" of one form or anther (I'll argue that F1 is really a spec class at this point, but built by different constructors and then there's the travesty that Indy has become).

The shame of it is the spending really hasn't come down, it's just burned up in refinement of existing tech rather than expansion into new tech (NASCAR's "lipstick on a pig" approach to car development with "truck arm, big spring" technology and pushrod, carbed engines for example)...

OK, I've gotten completely off course here (something that's apparently hard to do in short track "offshore racing"). Ultimately, my point is the sactioning bodies need to be responsible enough to do what's right for the sport rather than what's right for one or two "competitors". People need to learn that if you can't afford to compete with someone, you should drop down a class and find someone you can compete with, rather than demand a rules change in a fast class...

Oh and T2x, thanks for upping the ante on the "Dennis v Don" thread found elsewhere... You're credibility and insight really helped take the joke to the next level and also accidentally helped make that discussion interesting and entertaining.

[Brownie]

Unlike cells dividing, each split diminishes both parties. Up until the Indy split, I could name every Indy car and driver. Now I don't give a flying f**k. I was US delegate to the UIM Offshore Commission for 3 years, back in the 60's, and my job was keeping harmony in the rules, so that we could race over here, and over there and vice versa. Now look at it.... For that matter, I am against the split with OSO. I guess I was born without an ego. Good news, though, I met a guy the other day who was NOT an offshore world champ.......

[Sean Stinson]

Unlike cells dividing, each split diminishes both parties. Up until the Indy split, I could name every Indy car and driver. Now I don't give a flying f**k. I was US delegate to the UIM Offshore Commission for 3 years, back in the 60's, and my job was keeping harmony in the rules, so that we could race over here, and over there and vice versa. Now look at it.... For that matter, I am against the split with OSO. I guess I was born without an ego. Good news, though, I met a guy the other day who was NOT an offshore world champ.......

So I guess you saw my old bald headed boss a few times over the indy years

[T2x]

Unlike cells dividing, each split diminishes both parties. Up until the Indy split, I could name every Indy car and driver. Now I don't give a flying f**k. I was US delegate to the UIM Offshore Commission for 3 years, back in the 60's, and my job was keeping harmony in the rules, so that we could race over here, and over there and vice versa. Now look at it.... For that matter, I am against the split with OSO. I guess I was born without an ego. Good news, though, I met a guy the other day who was NOT an offshore world champ.......

Amen........

On the other hand, I can name every Indy car driver.

Danica Patrick

Is anybody else racing?

T2x

[T2x]

Oh and T2x, thanks for upping the ante on the "Dennis v Don" thread found elsewhere... You're credibility and insight really helped take the joke to the next level and also accidentally helped make that discussion interesting and entertaining.

What makes you think it was "Accidently"...?

[Dude! Sweet!]

It's funny, I was looking at a (free from the LA Boat show) issue of Performance Boats yesterday (yes in the crapper) and I noticed that Sunsation has the "Offshore World Champion" in their logo. It occured to me that one of these days when I'm really committed to procrastinating on something very important, I need to go through and see how many boat companies advertise themselves (primarily in their logos) as the Offshore World Champion (and yes, I'm feeling pretty parenthetical today)...

Indy meant a lot to me growing up. It represented a special bond that I had with my father and grandfather. It had a sense of history and direction that connected one generation to the next. Currently, it's most profound meaning is it gives Robin Miller a foil to say hilariously derisive things about people who consider themselves motorsporst professionals.