Supercharging an Ilmor

[truckwrench1]

on the turbo thought ive always loved turbos w/ the proper impellor and wast gate peak power can be made anywhere you want to set it and a small amount of lag in a boat could be a good think to get your props good and hooked up

[Uncle Dave]

thanks uncle dave for the reply and i totally agree w/ the maint. aspect and was not trying to offend anyone just a little more curious at this time.

Always glad to help!

(and if possible learn from some of the really smart guys here that spend even more ridiculous sums of money than me)

I dont know why you would think you may be offending anyone though.
Im certainly not and cant see anything you said that appears offensive.

Nothing but a turbine (or a drag car on nitro with an 18-71) can run with a properly built turbo, but they are incredibly expensive and complicated to do right and thats why until now you only see a few repeat turbo guys that have been successful in the long run.

as Steve 1 mentioned - its been done wrong, a lot.

Its going to take big money R&D (Merc/Ilmor) guys to commoditize this technology to a level where the average boater can enjoy it. Looks like even Merc when outside to the germans for their latest piece which tells you what were really talking about.

Thats a relatively LOW output level for that much technology which is probably why they can warranty it, but I really wonder about the maintenance schedule.

While were on that subject to me Mercs quad cammed DOCH 9 litre turbo should make 1300 HP easily. We've been making 1000 plus HP with comparatively ancient cam in block turbo'd small block chevies for decades now.

You mentioned "good and hooked up"- thats the new weak spot - the drive, not the engines ability to twist the planet if you could find a way to hook it up.

Ilmor with its access to modern metallurgy and tech could really change the game on the engine and looks like it stands to do so in the drive front.


Me personally- I prefer a really strong running injected/NA engine over all the air pushing stuff. Simpler, easier on parts, and if done right incredibly powerfull and long lasting.

I have permanent scars on my body from changing out force fed small and big blocks over the last 2 decades im just done with all of that. I hear the new whipple stuff is really great, but Im just done with all that.... for now anyway.


UD

[KiloKat]

wasn't that in addition to a couple "bottles"?

Yeah - 150hp nitrous powershot - you musta seen it in KW

One of the best improvements to go with the Paxton was a larger throttle body though. Really helped it in the upper gears. Also removed the cats, installed 4:88's and a competition shifter.

It has been a blast on the street.

[Jassman]

should I put 2 725's in the newly designed 39 Active Thunder..or 2 semi-stagged in a modified 43 NorTech coming out soon...or 2 staggged in the new 41 Pantera.MMMMMMMMMMMM

[MarylandMark]

You avatar is Active Thunder so I'm going to guess...

[Uncle Dave]

should I put 2 725's in the newly designed 39 Active Thunder..or 2 semi-stagged in a modified 43 NorTech coming out soon...or 2 staggged in the new 41 Pantera.MMMMMMMMMMMM

Congrats on any of them- its good to be the Jassman.

Curious- you had 700 and nxt's on your previous Nor Tech right?

What has convinced you to switch?


UD

[AIR TIME]

Congrats on any of them- its good to be the Jassman.

Curious- you had 700 and nxt's on your previous Nor Tech right?

What has convinced you to switch?


UD

he has been reading your posts for a while, like you said na 725 hp better mileage than the nxt 700 merc, minus the blower you have me sold and plus the drive looks like it will have less drag. it would be sweet to see a turbo or whipple on the Ilmor with about 1100hp to say 1500hp. or a na 900 hp or 1000hp. jass the ATs are nice riding didn't you have a 37 a few yrs ago?? art

[Jassman]

You avatar is Active Thunder so I'm going to guess...

It was Pantera last week...

[Jassman]

he has been reading your posts for a while, like you said na 725 hp better mileage than the nxt 700 merc, minus the blower you have me sold and plus the drive looks like it will have less drag. it would be sweet to see a turbo or whipple on the Ilmor with about 1100hp to say 1500hp. or a na 900 hp or 1000hp. jass the ATs are nice riding didn't you have a 37 a few yrs ago?? art

correct..all of the above.. I had No problems with the 700 Merc..put a little over 100 hrs on her..actually miss the boat..It will be a while till I get another...working on getting involved in the Marine Industry for my last phase or 20 years of work...

[MarylandMark]

working on getting involved in the Marine Industry for my last phase or 20 years of work...

Leverage?

[Jassman]

Leverage?

No.........................................One of the boating manufactures

[Matt Trulio]

This thread caught my interest, so I have an interview scheduled tomorrow with Paul Ray, the president of Ilmor Marine, on exactly this subject. I'll write about it in my blog tomorrow or Friday, and I'll let you know when it posts.

We chatted briefly today and the takeaway from our conversation was this: There are a bunch of reasons why you wouldn't want to supercharge an Ilmor 725.

Stay tuned.

[Uncle Dave]

This thread caught my interest, so I have an interview scheduled tomorrow with Paul Ray, the president of Ilmor Marine, on exactly this subject. I'll write about it in my blog tomorrow or Friday, and I'll let you know when it posts.

We chatted briefly today and the takeaway from our conversation was this: There are a bunch of reasons why you wouldn't want to supercharge an Ilmor 725.

Stay tuned.

Looking forward to it Matt- thanks!


UD

[C_Spray]

This thread caught my interest, so I have an interview scheduled tomorrow with Paul Ray...

Ask him to show you the shrouds they're making for my 725 package...

[Uncle Dave]

Saw the article Matt. Thanks. I enjoy your work.

I cant imagine anyone trying to simply bolt a blower on top of a stock Ilmor engine- although that happens all the time with marine V8's with predictably disastrous results. (I love the blower bolt on threads- hilarious)

It was very cool of them to let you quote them, and work with them.
Paul didn't give you much Ilmor specific info though.

Paul Ray is right - 10.3:1 engine needs to come down in compression to see any boost. This is the same for 350, 454, 502, or a 632 chevie as it is for a 505 Cubic inch v10.

You need to be down at About 8:5 unless running race gas or less to run any real boost, and using inconell exhaust valves is a good idea additionally.

Parts wise to do it right adds up fast ....This means not only new slugs, add a new balance job on a crank already balanced for heavier slugs- which MAY mean a new crank, and who knows what else other parts and the big bummer is you are going to have to buy 10 instead of 8 of them.

Then machining..

I was more interested to hear about what other more exotic problems might be like a supposed oil problem issue with rod# 5 , and what is required to fix it (I think that was #5) I heard about it from Sahagians guy at boostpower when discussing an 800 upgrade package ,or a potential weakness in the block preventing sustained higher output.

Viper engines have been putting out 1-1500hp in short bursts for a long time with very few reported block problems, but I dont know what lower end work this entails.

Alexi charges serious money to get 800 n/a and 850+ blown out of these engines so I imagine its a complete internal redo and head & maybe blockwork.

I was advised this is really only a viable way to get here is when your engine is at rebuild time. Considering the money is spent on top of the already premium priced engine Alexi's associate questioned the logic of messing with it at all vs. starting with a BBC when shooting for 800+ from the beginning.

Sounds like every other high perf toy to me.

Only a few can do it right and when done right is awesome
- with a price tag to match that will make even the loaded guys wince.


UD

[Matt Trulio]

Hey Uncle Dave,

Thanks back at you. During our phone conversation (Paul Ray and I were both behind the wheels of our respective vehicles, so I couldn't take notes) before he sent he that email to me, Paul also mentioned that even the pistons in the Ilmor 725 would have to be replaced. So I think your point on pricing that would make even the rich guys "wince" is spot on.

My guess would be that for all the trouble and expense it would take to supercharge an Ilmor, you'd be better off buying a new supercharged engine specifically designed and built for the application.

But I am so far from being an engine guy.

Have a great weekend.

[cowisl]

No.........................................One of the boating manufactures

38 Powerplay...lets bring it back

[Jassman]

38 Powerplay...lets bring it back

it will be coming back..give it about a year...the first boat has to be finshed off the mold..then possibly the 38 resurection with a very slightly modified Blueprinted bottom..and a few changes to make it better than the original PP's..which were an awesome platform to start with.

[baja27]

Jassman could you please expand on the bringing back of the 38 , that would be so sweet , would have to get rid of the 33 for the 38. All the 38 needs is a little updating on the dash and interior.

[cowisl]

it will be coming back..give it about a year...the first boat has to be finshed off the mold..then possibly the 38 resurection with a very slightly modified Blueprinted bottom..and a few changes to make it better than the original PP's..which were an awesome platform to start with.

I have a bunch of ideas....