What year did Jesse James 48 Race?

[Sean Stinson]

McLaren did the motor program at first for the System boat and Merc supplied the 5 drive which didnt hold up to the power of the engines.....It would turn the gears and bearings in the drive to rubber hence the switch to the Arnesons

[OneBadInjun]

He died after they stuffed the boat from a basil skull fracture.....To date I only know of one person that has survived a basil skull fracture and that would be Mr. Bobby Saccenti

The 48 Conquest was the JJ boat that stuffed?

[NNRT]

The 48 Conquest was the JJ boat that stuffed?

NO - it was the smaller one - 30 some odd feet long- i forgot the actual length

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

no - it was the smaller one - 30 some odd feet long- i forgot the actual length

35'

[chewiekw]

Considering the boat is the same size as a Mystic (not sure about the weight difference)

How do you think the boat would do today with 4 1500 HP Sterlings or twin Turbines?

[Ryan Beckley]

I would guess that the JJ 48 would weigh TWICE as much as they Mystic.....for what that is worth.

[chewiekw]

If i am not mistaken the full rigged weight for Jesse James was 16,000Lbs with 4 motors weighing about 1,200lbs each..take that away 11,200lbs

The dry weight (with out motors) of a mystic is 10,000lbs?

Or my numbers could be way off....You hear weight numbers for boats but never now if they are without without motors and rigging...

T2x can you share some numbers on the JJ boat without motors and rigging and with?

[Ryan Beckley]

I would bet that the Mystic with 2 motors would be faster than the JJ with 4....I was a HUGE JJ fan and would LOVE to see it back on the water but in all honestly someone would have to spend a FORTUNE on it to get it back in the water much less to dream of making it reach 200MPH....

[Sean Stinson]

And how!!!! I wouldn't even want to guesstimate that bill.....HUGE comes to mind though!

[chewiekw]

cost aside what if you through two turbines in JJ...

I guess i am trying to compare designs from back then to today...If weight and power are close then it comes down to design well and rigging...

What if you built JJ out of today's materials, or better yet just update the power and run two types of races. Today's inshore and a true offshore race and distance....Then boat design would really come into play...

[Sean Stinson]

Yes you're correct but you need to compare apples to apples.....I am not saying the designs are not comparable but technology has come along way in the way of materials to construct them

[T2x]

Big JJ weighed 17000 lbs full of fuel and a bit over 14000 rigged and ready to go. Do I think she would be as fast as a Mystic..... probably not...... but I think 200 is more than possible with turbines.....and in a collision or rough water I know which hull I'd rather be in..... Remember she had identical rudder systems to today's boats, better drives, and gear boxes...and BIG props.

You can talk about today's materials...... but the smaller 35 JJ took a back seat to NO ONE in top speed.....and the 32' outboard Conquests were comparable in speed to the early 32 Skaters...and weighed within 10-15%.

I'm not quite sure how Ryan got to be an "expert" on this subject given the fact that I think he was 5 years old when these boats raced...... Younger for the earlier ones

T2x

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I'm not quite sure how Ryan got to be an "expert" on this subject given the fact that I think he was 5 years old when these boats raced...... Younger for the early ones

T2x

He was in High school in Key West in mid '80's.

Few can match Ryan's knowledge and love of the sport.

[Brownie]

The original superboat, 4 engine Popeyes aluminum weighed 8,010 pounds no machinery, no paint, but with fuel cells. It got heavier and heavier as it was beefed up.

[T2x]

He was in High school in Key West in mid '80's.

Few can match Ryan's knowledge and love of the sport.

Interesting....I thought he was younger....seems like he was a small child when he rode on the deck of our 35' JJ in Key West in '86. He seems more than 20 years younger than me today.....

I can relate.

When I was in High School (4000 BC ) I recall reading (and re-reading) everything I could get my hands on about boat racing in magazines, books, etc (especially stuff from Hank Bowman who I idolized... and whose death I witnessed....My oldest son's middle name is Bowman). I went to every boat show, boat race, boat dealer, and marina just to check out every detail I could find. I was fortunate to start racing as a pre teen, but it never seemed to be enough. My school work had more boat doodles than words or numbers..... and I day dreamed about twin engine outboard cats (almost) as much as about girls....... Come to think of it both have "tunnels" of a sort...

T2x

[Sean Stinson]

You can talk about today's materials...... but the smaller 35 JJ took a back seat to NO ONE in top speed.....and the 32' outboard Conquests were comparable in speed to the early 32 Skaters...and weighed within 10-15%.


I didn't mean anything Rich other than the fact that if you built both boats side by side of the same materials you would have an even platform for comparison, that being said that would be a shootout I would pay money to see!!!!!! Sometimes my fingers don't type everything I am thinking as I am typing it if that makes sense!!!!!

[Ryan Beckley]

Sorry, but I don't claim to be an EXPERT on this subject. I was born in 75 actually so I was alittle older than 5. I actually spent a lot of time with the Lavin's when they came to the Keys every year. In 1985 when the won the Modified class worlds I was with Mark, Francine, & Miles in the boat parade. Mark is one of my heros, & I have a picture of the 35' hanging in my livingroom to this day.....

[Ryan Beckley]

I wasn't in KW in 86' when Mark was killed. I remember crying when my dad called me and told me what happened. I rode on the truck the following year in 1987 because the boat was partially tilted up for the parade.

[T2x]

The original superboat, 4 engine Popeyes aluminum weighed 8,010 pounds no machinery, no paint, but with fuel cells. It got heavier and heavier as it was beefed up.

That hull topped out at about 125-130 with 4 x725's.......... Now reduce the drives to 2 from 4......update the props dramatically........ and double the HP...

Another example would be the 4 engine Dirty Laundry CUV which went over 160 with 4 x 900's......... add 66% more HP and better props.........and what do you get?

Do the math....those 4 engine behemoths were nothing to sneeze at....and they weren't so heavy that the speed loss would be more than 10-15 mph below today's featherweights IMHO.

Bottom line aside from great styling and improved materials, there has been very little in the way of significant hull improvements since the early 80's.

T2x

[fobes]

I also tried to get my hands on everything I could find about racing and hi-po hulls. I grew up during the '80's and consider that to be the "glory days" of racing what with all the emerging technology and interesting characters. I remember an excellent article in "Wooden Boats" magazine about the Lavins and the construction of the Conquest cat. I will try and dig it out and get it scanned. I have several videotapes and most recently the excellent "Big Seas" dvd's and still cannot get enough. Back in the day I designed and ran several offshore boats constructed of Legos in my parents pool, none of which won any significant races. I also could fill reams of paper with my doodles/designs. Does anyone have any pics from the '80's they could share?
Thanks: Matt