Why are Apache's so great?

[PARADOX]

Thanks Charley..
I was reading a bunch of the Avanti's history but nothing was really "concrete".

This hull is 33'-3" (pulled from the mold in 07+-) and I thought it was from the original Coyote hulls, and it does have one less strake, but the lines are very similar.
Some of the current hulls/boats are faster.. but in serious seas.. I can handle it where as some of the "faster" hulls do ease back a bit. You guys did great with the design.. and I'm happy to have this history.. and own a part of it..

Thanks for the narrative.. (now I just have to find the marine equal of AKC and get the bloodline registered.)

[NJgr8ful]

I got this Avanti.,... I did some research on the hull and it seems to be a modified "coyote- Beep-Beep" hull.
Any one you have any history on the Avanti hulls? Some of the history on the Avanti hulls going back to Arronow.

I would be interested to find out the real scoop.

What I did found.. you are correct.. I'm not sure on this,, thus my question to the "Icons".. but I think JCS designed the deck. There is some history going to the Banana's, but it's sketchy at best.. I would love to know the exact history of this thing. I love it.. it goes through anythnig..

Thanks Charley..
I was reading a bunch of the Avanti's history but nothing was really "concrete".

This hull is 33'-3" (pulled from the mold in 07+-) and I thought it was from the original Coyote hulls, and it does have one less strake, but the lines are very similar.
Some of the current hulls/boats are faster.. but in serious seas.. I can handle it where as some of the "faster" hulls do ease back a bit. You guys did great with the design.. and I'm happy to have this history.. and own a part of it..

Thanks for the narrative.. (now I just have to find the marine equal of AKC and get the bloodline registered.)

So is the Avanti mold actually a Banana/Coyote mold ... or??? I've seen the roots from Cig to Apache. From Gara, MSV, Cobra, Banana, Coyote, to Sonic's purchase, but do not see Avanti mentioned? I do know it was Jersey built hull

[Top Banana]

Please post a photo of an Avanti, so we can see what you have there. Maybe we can figure out where it came from.

Clarification: Spoke to Bobby a little while ago and we agree that our memories are foggy but not dead, so this is the progression of the 37.6 that became the 41.

First there was the 35, then that was stretched to a 39 with a little flare in the freeboard aft.

That mold for the 39 was then blocked down to 37.6 and the Top Gun came from that.

The 37.6 was then stretched to a 41 and became the Apache 41.

So, it goes like this....35 to 39 / 39 down to 37.6 / 37.6 to 41

[PARADOX]

What I found out so far,, but I'm not really sure.. that Sonic bought some of the molds.. Once they started their step.. they sold it to Dennis Freedmen. ( an a$$hole.. but the hulls are great) Avanti started the 33'+ and also a 40' something.
Some pics.

[Top Banana]

If he bought the old Sonic molds, then that is my old boat.

Forget the sizes, we built a 38 and a 33 which was actually a 34 foot boat. Banana sold them as 33's and Coyote sold them as 34's and they were exactly the same.

The slab sides vs the knuckle sides that a Cigarette has, leans more toward the old Banana. The Banana strakes were 5 inches wide at the chine and 4 inches wide on the next strake in and the bottom strake was 3 inches. (It is really scary that I remember this stuff at all)

So, check out the width of the strakes and that may tell us all once and for all if they match the 5 / 4 / 3 scenario.

[PARADOX]

Don't have one of the bottem area of the hull.. but I'll take one.

[PARADOX]

If he bought the old Sonic molds, then that is my old boat.

Forget the sizes, we built a 38 and a 33 which was actually a 34 foot boat. Banana sold them as 33's and Coyote sold them as 34's and they were exactly the same.

The slab sides vs the knuckle sides that a Cigarette has, leans more toward the old Banana. The Banana strakes were 5 inches wide at the chine and 4 inches wide on the next strake in and the bottom strake was 3 inches. (It is really scary that I remember this stuff at all)

So, check out the width of the strakes and that may tell us all once and for all if they match the 5 / 4 / 3 scenario.

I appologize for hijacking this thread a bit.. I'm going measuring in a few minutes.
I see the "Mr Coyote" boat. (no. M-37 ) the transom curve, looks very similar to the Avanti curve.. as well as the deck.

[PARADOX]

Charley..


Please check out new thread about the Avanti..
I stole this thread long enough.. sorry.. (and thanks)

http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forum...ted=1#post7241


BTW, it is a 5, 4, 3.. strakes...

[Geronimo36]

No Comment

Bobby, were there any 36's that were built with a notched transom?

[Bobby Saccenti]

Bobby, were there any 36's that were built with a notched transom?

Yes Frank

I remember a few with the short staggered speedmaster III application.. It allowed us to raise the drives higher.. We also tried one with extension boxes.. That was not a good idea … The boat ran a little too transom heavy and needed some tab to keep the bow in check..

[Geronimo36]

Cool! Thanks for the info on the extension boxes, in another thread it was suggested to add boxes so it does not look like that would be a good idea.

Thanks again for all your help the past couple years and even before I bought the boat!

[Ratickle]

Damn, I love reading this stuff.

[Bobby Saccenti]

Once upon a time three young men, Bobby Saccenti, Sonny Miller and Jon Varese wanted to go racing. They remembered the boat built by GARA and called Impossible Dream....they liked what they saw there. They designed a 44 foot boat that had a very narrow foot and many strakes on the bottom. The boat originally had a round V at the stern because they intended to use shafts and inboards rather than sterndrives......fast forward, cause it didn't work....they changed the bottom to a real V, installed sterndrives and brought the boat to New Jersey for a newly sponsored race called...The Benihana.

It wasn't the fastest boat in the race, but boy could it eat up rough water. End of race and a lot of people couldn't navigate and some others couldn't find the right side of the checkpoints and the new 44 foot MSV, named La Tortuga won the race.

Of course, the crew of La Tortuga couldn't believe it...... and when the helicopters came over them close and gave them the one finger for first place, our boy Bob gave them the finger back.

Well the boat just didn't have the power back then to move all 44 feet very quick, but it beat everything in rough water and left no doubt that our trio was on to something. A Frenchman by the name of Jean Claude Simon comes along now and rents the mold from them and blocks it at 38 feet...but puts on a deck design that he copied from Paolo Caluiri...and voila....the 38 foot Cobra Open class racer of Joel Halpern is born....named Beep Beep.

This boat now goes out and wins US1 for the next two years and runs, really runs, in rough water. So during this time Joel and JC Simon have a falling out and JC is out in the cold so to speak. But a new opportunity comes his way......Mr Top Banana wants to move up to Open Class after too many years in smaller boats and is looking for a fresh design, so he and JC Simon hook up to build a newer version of the old favorite.....the new 38 Banana has one less strake on the bottom, but the remaining strakes are wider and the foot of the boat remains narrow. Once again a magic wand is waved, dollars change hands and ...Top Banana is born.

We trailer out to California for the Bushmills race and lead from start to finish, with the exception of Bill Elswick in Longshot, getting ahead for 30 seconds or so, while I tried to drive and throttle as I always did in the smaller classes....couldn't do it. Second boat in that race was Ajac Hawk, throttled by our friend Mr Bob S. Third place was Betty Cook in KAAMA.

Back to JC Simon...remember the falling out he and Halpern had? Well, JC wants to build boats out of my mold and call them Coyotes....remember how the Coyote always was after the Road Runner who said (Beep Beep)? So for a while Bananas and Coyotes are made from the same mold...both 38's and we blocked the mold for 34's too. Some like Gone Bananas in the photo below ran with both names on it, Coyote and Banana.

Fast forward again....Banana is out, Coyote is out.... and the molds now are sold to Sonic, where with the addition of a swim platform, they become the Sonic 42 footer. It all started with a 44 footer at the Benihana race.

So there you have the bloodline.....Gara, MSV, Cobra, Banana, Coyote, Sonic.

44' MSV
Grand Daddy of them all...

The 44’ MSV was ahead of its time for a super class boat.. At that time, the American Powerboat Racing Association ( The one and only racing organization at that time) only allowed us to use under UIM rules 500 cubic inch carbureted or fuel injected engines .. Just for the record the Gara was a totally different hull than the MSV and built several years later.

[jayboat]

Great thread. Gone Bananas is such a bad azz boat- looks like it's all business, serious business.

[Top Banana]

Great thread. Gone Bananas is such a bad azz boat- looks like it's all business, serious business.

Those guys were very bad azz. The two partners in the boat were just back from 'Nam and they were both Green Berets that served on the assasination teams behind the lines.

Thought a lot of their stories were BS, until one day in Newport RI after a wet lunch, one of my customers ran into them leaving a local bar heading for their car in the lot....on the way they all passed a building with a chained-in lot that had a Doberman Pinscher in it.

The dog started barking at them and one of the Gone Banana's guys says to the dog..."Shut up". The dog doesn't shut up and the next thing the guy has climbed the fence and jumped into the yard.

My customer told me that the dog took one look at this guy's eyes and ran off into the building to hide. After the war, they said that offshore racing was the closest thing they got to that same adreneline rush.

[JnT]

Thanks Bob S. for all the info you sent via email a few years back. The 21 is running good and we have had a blast with it.
It gets more attention than a lot of bigger boats.
Jim

[Top Banana]

44' MSV
Grand Daddy of them all...

Just for the record the Gara was a totally different hull than the MSV and built several years later.

Bobby and I spoke today and yes...he is right, the GARA was something that Paul Hagerty and Sandy Satullo did in 75 or so. Had the same look, but it wasn't part of that bloodline that is described here.

[Bobby Saccenti]

Thanks Bob S. for all the info you sent via email a few years back. The 21 is running good and we have had a blast with it.
It gets more attention than a lot of bigger boats.
Jim

Jim

Happy to hear that, as I mentioned to you before, the 21' Scouts was always my favorite..

[JnT]

"Why are Apaches so great?"
I guess it all comes down to build quality and customer service. I bought a 21 year old boat and the man that built it is still accesible and willing to help! The mechanic that rigged my outboard stated "I haven't heard a crack,pop or felt a soft spot after crawling all over this boat and I'm a big boy". He is a BIG fellow. The original rigging is phenominal. We had to change a few things from OMC to Yamaha but tried to mimic the original pattern.

Thats my little brother playing guitar in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XUQm66-l6c

Thanks again,
Jim

[NJgr8ful]

"Why are Apaches so great?"
I guess it all comes down to build quality and customer service. I bought a 21 year old boat and the man that built it is still accesible and willing to help! The mechanic that rigged my outboard stated "I haven't heard a crack,pop or felt a soft spot after crawling all over this boat and I'm a big boy". He is a BIG fellow. The original rigging is phenominal. We had to change a few things from OMC to Yamaha but tried to mimic the original pattern.

Thats my little brother playing guitar in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XUQm66-l6c

Thanks again,
Jim

Jim,
Love the Scouts. I want to get a 21-24' Apache, Cig, Pantera or something in that range as a second boat.

Dude your brother is Mark Lee of Third Day????:coolgleamA: