750 Reliable HP

[jeff1000man]

So what is the best heads in your opinion without going to another design? Or do you think it's worth the added money for the change.

It's up to you. I use out of the box Merlins and Darts all the time with minor upgrades. With modern technology, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on iron darts or merlins, when you can get nice AFR's, or similar with upgraded springs, valves, etc, for between 2500 and 3000 bucks and bolt them straight on. I know Dean is a distributor for them. He posted ealier. He might be able to get you a deal on them also. I am not a dealer. I am just an end user and small builder.

[dwtinc]

Thanks for the info. I have considered the change but I know it's not worth the money. I wouldn't mind dumping the weight and having better technology while mine are worth something to sell.

[jeff1000man]

Thanks for the info. I have considered the change but I know it's not worth the money. I wouldn't mind dumping the weight and having better technology while mine are worth something to sell.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[dwtinc]

It's winter and the mind wonders

[skaterdave]

brodix makes a bunch of different stuff. and are cnc'ed right out of the box. for the money and the technology today you really cant do much better that the standard cnc heads. the only time you see major head work or using different style heads (pontiac, hemi) is in the drag car stuff. i think spending more money on hand porting, unless for an all-out race boat, you would be wasting money. and even then the porting work should be minimal if they are already cnc.

[skaterdave]

well over 800 huh? . . . . gonna hafta re think our program

dave i miss spoke. did i say 800, i meant 600. plus you guys are making 900 plus??? pump gas baby!!!!!!!!!!!! thinking about buying a tanker before the price goes back up.

[dwtinc]

brodix makes a bunch of different stuff. and are cnc'ed right out of the box. for the money and the technology today you really do much better that the standard cnc heads. the only time you see major head work or using different style heads (pontiac, hemi) is in the drag car stuff. i think spending more money on hand porting, unless for an all-out race boat, you would be wasting money. and even then the porting work should be minimal if they are already cnc.

I know the pulling truck guys are running Pontiac heads and are making unbelievable torqe. I am sure I would be better off finding a different hull but you know how it is.

[skaterdave]

I know the pulling truck guys are running Pontiac heads and are making unbelievable torqe. I am sure I would be better off finding a different hull but you know how it is.

drag motors are probably pretty similar. did you ever see the push rod configuration and if so you'll see why you don't see the on an endurance type motor

[Rookie]

The CNC process from the maunufacturer or some of the bigger shops, IMO is taking the majic out of hand polishing and porting. The other benefit is that it is repeatable. Doing it the old fashioned way is still a work of art and can not be replaced, but at least with the CNC process, it is repeatable. Not all port work is created equal, even when it is done by the same guy.

Remember a good hand porter can manipulate the port to flow the most at certain lifts of the cam without hogging out all the material. This will keep you velocities up. I would rather have heads that flowed 380cfm at 316cc than heads that flow 380cfm @ 340cc If your CNC heads flow great #'s at 0.700" lift and your only running 0.575" lift its a little misleading. Aftermarket heads are great HP bolt-ons but a good porter can get more out of them.

I know of a 565 that we dynoed at 783HP NA, solid lifters on a hydraulic roller cam, hand ported Pro1's and fuel injected. its all in the combination.

[dwtinc]

drag motors are probably pretty similar. did you ever see the push rod configuration and if so you'll see why you don't see the on an endurance type motor

Yeah makes sense.

[jeff1000man]

Remember a good hand porter can manipulate the port to flow the most at certain lifts of the cam without hogging out all the material. This will keep you velocities up. I would rather have heads that flowed 380cfm at 316cc than heads that flow 380cfm @ 340cc If your CNC heads flow great #'s at 0.700" lift and your only running 0.575" lift its a little misleading. Aftermarket heads are great HP bolt-ons but a good porter can get more out of them.

I know of a 565 that we dynoed at 783HP NA, solid lifters on a hydraulic roller cam, hand ported Pro1's and fuel injected. its all in the combination.

I agree with what you on this 100%. My point was bang for the buck and repeatability. Not everyone can afford to spend 3k on the port work after they have bought the heads, when the CNC machine can get pretty good numbers.

I was taught that the cnc programs were patterned off heads that were professionaly ported and the machine uses the best average numebrs for what you are trying to accomplish.

[Rookie]

I agree with what you on this 100%. My point was bang for the buck and repeatability. Not everyone can afford to spend 3k on the port work after they have bought the heads, when the CNC machine can get pretty good numbers.

I was taught that the cnc programs were patterned off heads that were professionaly ported and the machine uses the best average numebrs for what you are trying to accomplish.

We are on the same page, but if you look at the Brodix BB2 for example: $2154 for 2 standard assembled heads, or the BB2 CNC's for $3540 that is the difference of $1386. You could buy the non CNC'd and get them hand ported for under $1500 (I think a full port is roughly $1200, i'll check later) and they will match the cam they were ported for and make better power for you application. The diference of $114

http://www.jegs.com/p/Brodix/750164/10002/-1

sorry to get this thread side tracked.

[dwtinc]

We are on the same page, but if you look at the Brodix BB2 for example: $2154 for 2 standard assembled heads, or the BB2 CNC's for $3540 that is the difference of $1386. You could buy the non CNC'd and get them hand ported for under $1500 (I think a full port is roughly $1200, i'll check later) and they will match the cam they were ported for and make better power for you application. The diference of $114

sorry to get this thread side tracked.

How much difference do you think? Where do you decide to keep your torque up and not worry as much with H.p. Since it's a marine application I worry alot oabout the torque side.

[jeff1000man]

We are on the same page, but if you look at the Brodix BB2 for example: $2154 for 2 standard assembled heads, or the BB2 CNC's for $3540 that is the difference of $1386. You could buy the non CNC'd and get them hand ported for under $1500 (I think a full port is roughly $1200, i'll check later) and they will match the cam they were ported for and make better power for you application. The diference of $114

sorry to get this thread side tracked.

It just depends on the talent you have to work with. I don't have that luxury around here. THe computers are way more talented than the guys I have run into.

I can't use someone far away since the shipping would eat me up, but I can get a longer crank, or a little different cam grind or a better carb, and make up the difference. There are a lot of ways to make power. Of course when you have access to all the factors, then it REALLY gets fun.

[Rookie]

How much difference do you think? Where do you decide to keep your torque up and not worry as much with H.p. Since it's a marine application I worry alot oabout the torque side.

I don't know the direct answer to that question, but sticking the right cam along with the right heads can be a considerable difference. That's why these good engine builders make great power with off the shelf heads CNC'd or not, they know which cams work with that application. but if you get custom porting you can get even more out of them and if your dropping over $3000 on CNC'd heads + or - $150 for maybe 60HP it might be worth it.

If you want I can give you the # of IMO one of the best MARINE head porter there is. He will tell you the difference.

[Rookie]

It just depends on the talent you have to work with. I don't have that luxury around here. THe computers are way more talented than the guys I have run into.

I can't use someone far away since the shipping would eat me up, but I can get a longer crank, or a little different cam grind or a better carb, and make up the difference. There are a lot of ways to make power. Of course when you have access to all the factors, then it REALLY gets fun.

Where are you located??

[dwtinc]

I don't know the direct answer to that question, but sticking the right cam along with the right heads can be a considerable difference. That's why these good engine builders make great power with off the shelf heads CNC'd or not, they know which cams work with that application. but if you get custom porting you can get even more out of them and if your dropping $3000 on heads + or - $150 for maybe 60HP it might be worth it.

If you want I can give you the # of IMO one of the best MARINE head porter there is. He will tell you the difference.

PM his number and when I get serious I will contact him. I don't want to bother him till I'm ready. Where is he located?

[jeff1000man]

Where are you located??

Houston

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I know the pulling truck guys are running Pontiac heads and are making unbelievable torqe. I am sure I would be better off finding a different hull but you know how it is.

Mercury used Pontiac heads on their race motors 20 years ago.

[jeff1000man]

Mercury used Pontiac heads on their race motors 20 years ago.

Good for the tractor pulls where you are limited max displacement to production +.060