Thinking about a shotgun

[jryan26]

Here's what you're talking about. It's why I have the 1300.


Straddling both the law-enforcement and civilian markets for low-recoil shells is the unique offering from the Mexican manufacturer, Aguila. It's the 1 3/4-inch, 12-gauge Minishell. This cute little number was designed originally for the law-enforcement and military market. Given its compact size, officers can carry a lot of them, and 12 to 14 Minishells can easily fit into the tube of a 20-inch riot gun. Only the Winchester 1300 pump will cycle them without a hitch, but they are just perfect for single- and double-barrel guns. The Minishell comes in three combinations. There's a 5/8-ounce load of 7 1/2s a 7/8-ounce slug load, and a duplex buckshot load consisting of seven 4-Buck plus four l-Buck. Minishells are beginning to appear in local retail stores where their low recoil and recreational qualities haven't gone unnoticed by the shooting public. They're fun to shoot and a great conversation piece at the range.

Thats them.
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s..._12ga_Min.html

[jryan26]

The 7 1/2's will only penetrate about 2- 3 inches. You can cause some nasty flesh woulds, but if your assailant is motivated, they can definitely return fire.

Maybe 6's then? I just dont want to shoot through the walls.

[Chris]

Smallest you'd want to go is #4. It may come out the other side of a wall, but it wouldn't have the energy to do any harm. At common inside distances, it'll do the job. beyond 12 to 15', I'd want #1.

[JupiterSunsation]

This brings up some other good points- you really should fire your home defense weapon in a dark enclosed space without hearing protection- at least once. You don't want to fire down that staircase and be so startled that you drop the shotgun and it slides down to your assailant's pal. Try shooting it left-handed too. It's hard to make a semi-concealed shot from cover on the right side of an opening without firing left-handed. You don't want your first time to be the one you need to do it right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glCFfhclrLI&NR=1

Notice the first timer, drops the gun immediately after firing a round to the moon!

[jmeng]

Too many people get caught up in thinking about the exchange of gunfire portion of having a stranger in their home. The often overlook the most important objective- making the threat to their family go away. I would gladly trade my TV and stereo equipment for not having to risk engaging in a gun battle. Even if I have a higher skill level than the guy that sneaked into my home, he might get lucky. Even if I win cleanly, I now have a whole batch of issues on my hands that I really don't need. If I can skip all this by scaring them into leaving, I'm up for that option. Sure, I'm going to have that moment of being pi$$ed and wanting to do these scumbags in, but I also don't want to risk the potential costs associated with that happening. Plus, I have insurance.

Like the guy that shot the two burglars on his front lawn last year in Texas- He may not have gone to jail, but I'm certain he spent a nice chunk of his retirement on lawyer's fees to make that happen.

100% agree. They can have the tv and whatever else they feel like sticking around to carry off until the cops get there. I'm behind a locked bedroom door between them and my wife.

[glassdave]

As someone who just purchased his first gun for home protection i can certainly see the value of the info posted here. Currently the gun feels foreign and intimidating to me but luckily several of my friends come out to the lake house regularly to shoot clays off the deck. My thought is to get comfortable with it over time and maybe get in some range firing as well, this is a long term process for a skill i hope to never use. I have really enjoyed reading everyone's take on the subject in this and related threads. Lots of good info guys, and thanks Chris your input has been invaluable. I wish my reasoning to purchase a gun was under different circumstances (recently lost a friend to a senseless violent crime) but its good to have access to the opinions here to help with the decision. Its interesting to see the complexities of something as simple as choice of rounds and how they are chambered and also how that can play out should you need to use it. How a jury and judge sees those things. Things i certainly would never have thought of if it weren't for threads like this. Good stuff guys.

[Chris]

As Dave said, you have to think about the whole picture. The guy with the Winchester video- if he were to shoot someone in a home-defense scenario, that video may be uncovered in the ensuing investigation. That leads the investigators to look at every post he's ever made on a website. Those help the prosecution determine their opinion on his state of mind and predilection towards looking for a confrontation. Imagine each and every bit of that on display for a jury deciding your fate. If you were on trial, would you want someone showing a poster-sized blowup of one of your board posts that says something like "if you shoot them, remember to drag them back inside", or something like that?

[Tony M]

this sounds about what i'm looking for.
A gun i never actually intend to use.
Price is about what i was expecting.
Suggestions of where to buy?

if you don't intend to use it why even go there , best know what your about to get into espitaly the after effect of when you might use it !!

[Chris]

I think what Tim is saying is that he's hopeful the situation never arises and if it does, he's hopeful it resolves without having to resort to taking someone's life.

No one in their right mind wants to kill another person.

[phragle]

what about these?

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm

[ar15meister]

what about these?

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm

Not good for home defense.....but cool.

I use a Fabarm Martial Pro Forces with low recoil tactical 12 gauge slugs, 2 3/4 inch, they are made to have lower chances of wall penetration but offer maximum stopping power. I keep the ammo in a side saddle on the buttstock because in Canada a loaded gun in the home is illegal.

Surefire flashlight mounted on the forestock and glow in the dark sights.

action is a springloaded pump. I can fire two shots faster with the pump gun than I can with my semi auto beretta xtrema 2

[ar15meister]

home defense is about alot more than guns. Anyone who spends money on a gun but is too cheap to wire an alarm system in their home is being very silly in my honest opinion.

you need an alarm system that you can actiuvate while you are in the house to act as a perimeter alarm and notify you to get your family into a safe place and get your gun out and call police (in that order). I have one and it has scared off burglars twice, woke me up and gotten me armed.

Layered defense is best, the final layer being a 12 gauge shotgun or .45 caliber handgun, preferebly an HK...........

[FountainMike]

I would take the remington over the mossberg.

I agree! The 870 is a nice piece, I used to hunt with the 11-87 very nice gun and always reliable.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...s/model_11-87/

[Buoy]

I think what Tim is saying is that he's hopeful the situation never arises and if it does, he's hopeful it resolves without having to resort to taking someone's life.

No one in their right mind wants to kill another person.

That is EXACTLY what I meant by that statement.

And also why I'm thinking a shotgun would be a better idea than the 9mm.
Just the noise of racking it would have a large effect, I would think.

Also, if this move is going to take place, I'm hoping to get a bit further out of suburbia living - and they have critters out there that could harm my dogs.

[Never Enuff]

Just my .02 on this subject. This is based on 40+yrs. in Law Enforcement and 5 yrs. in the Corps.

1. Once you pull the trigger you can never take it back!!!!!!

2. Don't ever point your gun at someone unless your willing and able to kill them.

3. It's a lot different pulling the trigger while your gun is pointed at a person than it is talking on the computer about what you would do if someone broke into your house. A lot of people talk but suprisingly enough there are a lot of people that can't pull the trigger. You better think about it---the results last a long time. If you can't---don't buy a gun. It does not make you any less of a man.
Jay

[itilldo]

If and when you make your final pick of type of shotgun you you buy you may want to consider to get one of these as well

http://www.tubeloid.com/2007/12/02/s...s-to-your-bed/

[itilldo]

then if you really want to make it easy access around the house start to look at some of these hidden safes

http://www.hiddensafes.com/index.htm

[Tony]

A lot of good avise here as usuall. Im going to throw in a few tidbits in response to some of the comments that were made in the thread.

1. Security systems and motion lights can solve problems you may never knew existed.

2. Dont buy a gun for defense purposes unless you have completely thought through taking another human life in its entirety.

3. Staggered loads (shot/bucksot/slug) in a shotgun = premeditated murder

4. Handloads in any defense firearm = premeditated murder

5. Unless you work in law enforcement pistol grips on shotguns are nothing more than a novelty, go ahead, try and argue....

6. Any firearm that looks like it belongs in a SWAT locker (lasers/lights/folding stocks/pistol grips/heat shields...ect...ect....will be viewed by a prosecutor, jury, and far as anyone else is concerned judge, as premeditated murder.

We all have ideas about what works and what looks cool but at the end of the day if you find yourself in a defense shooting you will be faced with a judge, jury, and prosecutor who will absolutly not see things your way.

[Audiofn]

So..... with all this talk about what some gun can do or can not....anyone here pull the trigger and offed someone legit in the act?
High-Tide

I am sure that anyone that did have to do this would never want to talke about it. It would change your life for ever.

[Never Enuff]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but can either Tony or Chris please give me the specific case citation on the question of premeditated murder ref: staggered rounds being loaded in a shotgun? A PM would be fine
Thanks,
Jay