Chris Sunkin thread on OSO

[endeavor1]

HOLY CRAP!!! I was reading what Chris was posting on OSO just now in a deragatory thread about him. Couldnt believe he was posting. Thread just went poof!

Id be interested to have him continue so the other side (his side) of the story came out even this may earn me a banning from other sites or maybe even this one.

[Chris]

A guy doing some due diligence on me found OSO via Google. Thought he'd ask some questions. A bunch of people that don't know me or even know someone that knows me told him all about all of my shortcomings as a human. I just found it today.

I have reams of material and lots of good, grungy stories that I've never posted or talked about, mostly because I believe the sport isn't about the tiny percentage of Real Housewives that are drawn to board drama like vampire bats to a cow, but about people enjoying each other and their hobby. But I gave out a few tastes. The cyberbullies are all in hiding. They're still posting photoshopped pictures of me and the all-time class act gem, BEWARE: Chris Sunkin (Christopher Sunkin) is a liar and fake in the boating industry. In the world of the internet, this is how real men settle their differences.

I'm not hiding and I'm not hiding anything. I have my own private business that's mine and mine alone. I won't have the temerity to ask you about yours and expect the same in return. You wanna know about pools and barbecue grills or if I was dumb enough to fall out of a boat, ask away. If you want to look me up in the public records databases and post images from space of my house, I guess I can't stop you.

I have stayed away from here for a few reasons. Mostly because I wanted the site and those who stuck with it to do the best it could without me being a distraction. Aside from that, the mere sight or thought of a boat turned by stomach. It reminded me of how ugly some people can be. It reminded me that even though we're eons past the bloodsport of the Romans, there are people out there aching to be able to kick someone who someone else has knocked down. OK. Kick away. But I will be getting up.

Nowadays I am enjoying being a multiple-boat owner once again. Got a really nice Bayliner 19 at a yard sale for $350 (no, I didn't miss a zero) and a cute 22' pontoon boat that was a project my father took in on trade. It's nice to be on the water with the kids and friends and around people that aren't trying to impress anyone.

I was most saddened that people who stood up for me were so badly badgered and bullied. I don't blame any of them for bailing as in the end, we weren't really "brothers" but acquaintances who met on a website. I'm glad that I was able to walk away with a few lifetime friendships with people who I enjoyed time with. Paul, John and Bobcat all stood up in front of me and took shots on my behalf as did Dave Stecz. Tim and Jim held in there and took their share of abuse for doing so as well. I will always have gratitude and great respect for these people and they know what that means.

Looks like the sport of offshore survived without me. That's a good thing. I was hoping we could make it a little better but in the end, the greed and avarice of a few prevented that from happening.

[endeavor1]

Dont know really what to say but thanks for shedding some light on the deal.

[Bobcat]

They labeled me a violent alcoholic.....which isn't true......I'm a raging alcoholic with a marked propensity towards violence Friggin night and day....what can ya do ???

[endeavor1]

They labeled me a violent alcoholic.....which isn't true......I'm a raging alcoholic with a marked propensity towards violence Friggin night and day....what can ya do ???

LMFAO . . . there is worse things

[old377guy]

Hey Chris, nice to hear from you. My experience is that back on OSO and here on SOS you have been unfailingly polite and have helped me research numerous issues and technical questions that I've had over the past several years. All the best - Jeff

[Buoy]

Like many things on the internet, there is a lot more to this story.
The people that were involved know 80-90% of the story.
I don't think anyone truly knows 100% of the story. Not anyone.
In the end, everybody loses.
I think all involved had the best of intentions (aside from maybe one or two).

Some people stayed here, some went elsewhere, and some just went away.
Regardless, everyone of them has seemed to distance themselves from the whole scene. ie: none are as involved as they once were. Including myself.
It's a shame.

I've been around these boat boards for close to 15 yrs, and have made some lifelong friends, shared personal aspects of my life, and have learned and hopefully helped on all sorts of topics.
I've also become more cautious, and a bit jaded.
Life experiences.

[Chris]

I think all involved had the best of intentions (aside from maybe one or two).

I would have a less-diminished faith in humanity if that were even close to being accurate.

The amazing thing to me was the snowball effect. The whole thing started with two people, so that part is spot on. But what astonished me was the sheer number of people who wanted to taste blood that decided to pile on and have some fun.

This thing started with one guy, so full of avarice, that he spent hours digging for whatever sort of fabricated dirt he could find. He tried selling this story of his for about a year and person after person told him he was full of $hit. Then we have another person, who got tired of (a) hearing the word no too many times, and (b) not being treated as if he was better than everyone else on the founder's team. Person A's story fit his needs, especially since he had found another group of people anxious to cash in on the phenomenon we had built at that point. Me telling them "No, we're not ready to take advertiser's money yet" made them nuts. I suppose they figured if I didn't want the money, they'd be happy to take it. At any rate, it was a match made in heaven.

The most disturbing part was all the people who piled on. Obviously I have pi$$ed of my share of people over the years. If I don't agree with something, I'll say so. And I do know how to make a point. And yes. I have in the past enjoyed taking the occasional loudmouthed tool out for a spin. I suppose there were a few people out there who enjoyed the opportunity of taking a few shots at me.

It's a simpler story than one might be led to believe. I bounced a check. Neither I nor the hospital that was the beneficiary discovered it for several months. I found out, was horrified, discovered what happened and Fedex'ed a replacement with an apology letter. Case closed. A guy made a mistake and took care of it. But unbeknownst to me, I opened Pandora's Box. This became the perfect opening for this fellow and a couple of what I like to think of as highly self-important guys to make their move. So what we have is one guy who bought his way into the party and three moderators that had convinced themselves the site only existed because of their efforts felt entitled to take control of the site. They convinced themselves that Person A's letter of accusations MUST be true, since, after all, he said so. Plus it suited their needs quite well. So they decided that they would take over. They didn't bother to mention this to the other 30+ active Founder's. They were nice enough to offer to reimburse me for my out-of-pocket startup costs for the site.

At this point, there needs to be a bit of context interjected. At the time that these guys were playing moderator, Paul Rose was sitting in his office, entering hundreds of boat ads into our new classifieds system, one by one. Manually. Keying in all the ad info. Loading pictures. Making sure it was all correct. Hard, tedious work. Hard F'ing work. Now this is a guy who rented a raceboat, not once but twice, and put our logo on the side. Out of his own pocket. Somehow his contributions paled against the others and he was omitted from their group. (my fingers would be raw if I typed out all Paul did). This is just one of many examples of people who put tons of their own efforts into the site purely for their love of the sport. None of them ever having the idea that they would be entitled to take over the site.

Nonetheless, my answer to these guys was no. Fuc& no. That displeased them. So they decided they needed to save the sport from me, so they set about a campaign to sell their story of how I tried to cheat a charity. Conveniently, Mr. A was available to help.

Again, a little context- on the very same weekend I handed over the charity check about a dozen of the Founder's group sat in a room in Key West talking about the future of the site. A few implored me to begin taking the advertiser's money that had been being offered to us over and over again. Once again, I said no, we weren't ready. I wanted to make sure we built enough value in what we were delivering. After the meeting, one of the Founder's who was less-involved told me "that's a man not accustomed to hearing the word no. He's not pleased". In hindsight I should have paid closer attention. Back to my point, on the same weekend I hand over a charity check, i turn down tens of thousands in advertiser dollars. Now why would I do that? Notwithstanding the pure dollars issue, why would I commit a felony over $2600 AND do it in a place I was sure to get caught and obviously jeopardize something I had put many times that much into in the past two years? A bit more context- shortly before that, I was at a poker run with the group of four that tried to take over the site. Sitting at the banquet table for the charity auction, the idea was floated we all kick in and make a $1000 donation to the group. You would have thought we were asking these guys to blow a streetcorner bum. Now this is a group that stayed for free, boated for free and ate for free for a whole weekend. Me and one other split the $1k donation. We did it in the name of our group, not the two of us. Shortly after, one of the guys had a charity he wanted money for. A polar bear jump. I was the first guy in- I thing I gave him $250. This same guy a week or two later decided to accuse me of stealing a coffee can full of one's in a bar where we were having a party. Oh- forgot. That was four months prior. I guess he forgot that he saw me stealing charity donations.

The rest of the story you already know. I'm a lying, thieving scumbag.

What disturbed me the most was what they did to the remaining group. One poor woman was hounded so badly, she had to disappear altogether. I was told she received sixteen phonecalls in one day while at work. Another gentleman was told his business would be destroyed just like they were doing to the site. Or at least that's his story to me. The rest received varying degrees of harassment. One, who I count as a close friend, told me, "I have a wife and kid. I can't afford to have this happen to me". I don't blame him.

Over the course of several months, the group made several additional efforts to gain control of the site. In one instance, they tried to get someone close to me to leverage our friendship and gain control of the site, in exchange for "a big check".

This site had one reason for its creation and two founding principles. The reason was the sale of OSO and the uncertainty of the site's future. Their new owners suffered through months of ineptitude. The principles we set upon were that it would be a fair and open community where everyone was welcome contingent upon a standard of behavior and that the site would never leave the control of the membership- it would never be sold out from underneath them. Those ideals are still intact today.

So now we have this group of people who one one side are trying to save the sport and industry of performance powerboating from the likes of me, while at the same time, trying to take over the website our group had built. Interestingly enough, their "offer" to buy the site included a confidentiality clause. So the way it worked was this- if I left, nothing would be said. I would be free to go on running my myriad of charity scams. But otherwise, the sport would be saved from me by these guys. Maybe someone could explain the purely altruistic nature of this arrangement. I'm a simple guy- that to me sounds something like extortion.

So, the rest is history. Since then we have had a non-stop parade of everyone I ever rubbed the wrong way. It's comical to read " I always knew he was..." from people who participated right next to me on OSO for the ten years prior to this course of events. But my favorites are the handful that have created outright fabrications so that they wouldn't be left off of the boat on this one. It's great to be one of the cool kids, I guess.

I hope that gives you a little more insight into what went on. I'm not as jaded and you might think this would cause a person to be. What I did learn was the difference between "friends" and Friends.


Wanna watch a video that explains how the whole rest of it went?

Start at 0:50 Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ83r886Kyg

[old377guy]

Ain't life interesting? I don't know enough about the specifics to add much nor is it my place to do so if I did. About five years ago at a weekend retreat a gentleman shared this simple gem: "The only thing of permanent value that we have to help others on their path is our experience" I hope you'll keep sharing that Chris; my life is richer for it. - Jeff

[Buoy]

Chris, to clarify my statement that you quoted....
I guess I should have said "originally" had the best of intentions.
Then it turned into a "devil on the shoulder" type deal.
You're account is pretty straightforward, and I know "mr A, and mr B" that you are referring.
But, many dont know, or do they need to know the goings on.

[Chris]

What it ended up being was an amazing social experiment. Had I not been in the center of it, I think it would have been fascinating to watch. We had one person so jealous and so full of avarice that he made it his life's mission to destroy the site. We had one person completely unable to let anything but his ego control his actions. We had a couple of people who, when sitting next to a pile of cash, couldn't resist the urge to scoop it up and run for the door (metaphorically). These were all (except the first one) that you would never expect this from. Once it all hit the fan, I was amazed at reactions of people. A few people I thought were friends just disappeared without a word. Others backed away apologetically. But some stood right there and told a much louder and much larger, quite angry mob that they were wrong. Interestingly enough, as I look back, I think that in all but one case, I could have predicted the behavior of everyone involved. It's the little, unimportant or insignificant things that you do in your daily life that point towards your true character. I suppose it's something like the old adage "It's what you do when no one is looking..." .

I used to really enjoy helping people on the site where I could. I was just telling Paul this story this afternoon- I was at a body shop supply store yesterday picking up paint. I couldn't help but overhear the guy in front of me- he was looking to clean up a boat he had just bought. As I watched the counter guy set the wrong products on the counter again and a again I couldn't not speak up. I walked this guy through removing the stripes and the dead gel and bringing what was underneath back to a nice shine. The good thing for the store owner is the guy bought three times as much stuff. But instead of burning brown spots into his chalky gel, he's going to have a nice looking boat by the end of the weekend. The store was out of a DA backing pad so the guy followed me to my shop and I loaned him one. Turns out he's a friend of a friend and it's his first boat. He owns a big diesel repair shop. Since I have a couple diesel trucks, I now know someone who just might treat me right one day. And he's going to skip one of the frustrating, negative first boating experiences. I always loved that part of the sport. Sharing a mutual interest with good people you'd enjoy spending time with. Turns out you don't need a website to do that.

[Chris]

You know Tim, I agree with what you're saying. At first, everyone loved the idea of a place by us, for us, run by us. But we should have known that with ordinary humans involved, some human nature was bound to rear its ugly head.

My mom used to tell me, "Don't you worry about other people. Worry about yourself." I guess we had a few people that didn't have moms like mine. They somehow convinced themselves that they were more important than other people and as such, they deserved certain things. They never understood why what we built worked- because of the critical mass of involved, active members. Every one of the original 75 Founders brought five friends with them. By the end of our first week we had over 400 very active boater/members. What that group did attracted the next two thousand members. After that, we were on a roll.

A community website lives and dies by its participating members. Ours were, for the most part, the cream of the crop. We never really cared about hit counts or post counts. We focused on quality. The "living room" concept that I used to talk about. It saddens me to see a web community that at one time had such value that has now been reduced to a cesspool of bad behavior. All in the name of ad sales, I guess. We built something really cool, but in the end, maybe it never really had a chance. I'd like to think it did. I wish we could have seen it.

BTW- Happy birthday to US!

[Buoy]

Lord of the Flies.

I'll have more to comment, just not at this moment.
Happy birthday Chris.