Pantera Bankruptcy Filing, Hijacked thread.

[TCEd]

Company Bankruptcy Information for Pantera Boats Inc

[OneBadInjun]

Chapter 11 Bankruptcy is a restructuring of debt proceedure. Maybe they can pull through this, before submission to Chapter 7 full bankruptcy. This economy is relentless. Hope it turns around soon.

[rschap1]

BUMMMERR

[fund razor]

Company Bankruptcy Information for Pantera Boats Inc

Hi Ed. Welcome back after such a long time. That was an important post, I guess.

I have a question that maybe you can answer. Or maybe someone else can help.

Like you, I don't have a Pantera. I don't have a Pantera on order. I don't have plans to order a Pantera. I don't know the Nunez family. I have never met them. We have never had any business dealings. I've never given or received advice from them. I don't know Berk. I've never vouched for them, nor have they vouched for me. I have never visited their shop or even set foot on a Pantera. Other than the fact that I happen to be a boater, and they happen to build boats, we have no connection.

As a guy who happens to own a boat, what is my responsibility as far as "saving" the rest of the boating public from this business, which is technically none of my business? As a boater, am I obligated to spread the word? If I do not spread the word that Pantera has filed, am I an enabler? Am I guilty of fraud due to my resistance to jump on a bandwagon? To what extent are offshore boaters (and fish boats too) obliged to participate in the "warning phase," "celebration of failure," "make sure to kick them wherever they appear," and "I told you so" activities? I am trying to think of a hobby that has such a seemingly strong requirement for uninvolved people to take active roles in the informing, persecuting, educating, flaming, ridiculing, of strangers for the good of that hobby.

Is this a function of social media and the internet driving public opinion and fueling the fires of self-appointed guardians of the public trust? Or is it an actual ethical obligation that a mariner must participate in without fail? Having no dog in this fight, and simply observing the choices, statements and actions of others who have no dog in this fight, I have to wonder.

[Knot 4 Me]

Hi Ed. Welcome back after such a long time. That was an important post, I guess.

I have a question that maybe you can answer. Or maybe someone else can help.

Like you, I don't have a Pantera. I don't have a Pantera on order. I don't have plans to order a Pantera. I don't know the Nunez family. I have never met them. We have never had any business dealings. I've never given or received advice from them. I don't know Berk. I've never vouched for them, nor have they vouched for me. I have never visited their shop or even set foot on a Pantera. Other than the fact that I happen to be a boater, and they happen to build boats, we have no connection.

As a guy who happens to own a boat, what is my responsibility as far as "saving" the rest of the boating public from this business, which is technically none of my business? As a boater, am I obligated to spread the word? If I do not spread the word that Pantera has filed, am I an enabler? Am I guilty of fraud due to my resistance to jump on a bandwagon? To what extent are offshore boaters (and fish boats too) obliged to participate in the "warning phase," "celebration of failure," "make sure to kick them wherever they appear," and "I told you so" activities? I am trying to think of a hobby that has such a seemingly strong requirement for uninvolved people to take active roles in the informing, persecuting, educating, flaming, ridiculing, of strangers for the good of that hobby.

Is this a function of social media and the internet driving public opinion and fueling the fires of self-appointed guardians of the public trust? Or is it an actual ethical obligation that a mariner must participate in without fail? Having no dog in this fight, and simply observing the choices, statements and actions of others who have no dog in this fight, I have to wonder.

It's news in the industry/hobby. I'm sure Jason or Matt will probably report on it on speedonthewater.com. What is the harm of a boater posting about it? Oops! Forgot. This is SOS. Puppydogs and lollipops only. Sunkin blinders stardard issue for all!! Poof! I'm banned! Lol!!!!

[fund razor]

These threads generate a lot of constructive dialog.
And trolls.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It's news in the industry/hobby. What is the harm of a boater posting about it?

Nothing it all. Just do it as a new topic.

Here I will help you guys.

[Ratickle]

It's news in the industry/hobby. I'm sure Jason or Matt will probably report on it on speedonthewater.com. What is the harm of a boater posting about it? Oops! Forgot. This is SOS. Puppydogs and lollipops only. Sunkin blinders stardard issue for all!! Poof! I'm banned! Lol!!!!

Nothing wrong with it, I think it was more because of what had been said in the past by some. You'll have to work at it harder than that to get banned, even though I believe you are completely wrong......

[Ratickle]

Chapter 11 Bankruptcy is a restructuring of debt proceedure. Maybe they can pull through this, before submission to Chapter 7 full bankruptcy. This economy is relentless. Hope it turns around soon.

BUMMMERR

[Ratickle]

Nothing it all. Just do it as a new topic.

Here I will help you guys.

I like it Jim. I'll rename a bit, but a great idea. Thanks

[Ratickle]

I do hope they can work things out. One of the issues will be who, or if, the bank places in charge of the company during the restructuring process. If they choose the right person, and the reorganization is done correctly, they could come through this with a better business plan for the future than they currently appear to have. Too bad someone like Chris from Skater wasn't available.

Who else is down there who knows a lot about the boat building industry, and has a stellar reputation? Anyone come quickly to mind?

[Pete B]

Who else is down there who knows a lot about the boat building industry, and has a stellar reputation? Anyone come quickly to mind?

its the boat industry and very few have a stellar reputation!

[JO - PANTERABOAT]

Yes, we filed on the 20th. We are re-structuring the company and hopefully we will be out of it as soon as possible. It was a business decision to do this re-organization. We do not owe any money to our suppliers.

My Family and I plan to continue to build a good quality product at a great price like we have done for the past 38 years. If anyone has any questions please feel free to call me here at the factory at 786-331-7100 or on my cell at 786-366-8802.

Alot of false and un-true things are being posted on the other site to create drama about my family and I and Pantera. We do not run away from any problem. We will continue to work thru this process and move forward. It has been a very tough economy and we are not the first boat company or any company to have to file and re-organize.

We will not be responding anymore to this matter on any public forums.

Our doors are open from 8:30 AM until 5:00 PM Monday - Friday.

Thank You,

Pantera Boats
Pantera Powerboats Offshore powerboat racing

[fund razor]

I guess since my post was lifted and is now floating around the internet, it tells me that the fact that a guy would suddenly break a silence of ten months to post the latest dirt consistent with his position on a different site is more a function of social media and the internet than anything else. My question was to ed, the one who posted. He'll discuss it or he won't.

I'll leave the prosecution of Pantera to the regular prosecutors. I'm not involved.
My interest was in the social dynamics of it all. Because when you have no involvement, certain behaviors stand out that are kind of interesting.

Do you know when you post here, people will re-post it other places? The internet is a wierd and scary place. People are crazy.

[TCEd]

Hi Ed. Welcome back after such a long time. That was an important post, I guess.

I have a question that maybe you can answer. Or maybe someone else can help.

Like you, I don't have a Pantera. I don't have a Pantera on order. I don't have plans to order a Pantera. I don't know the Nunez family. I have never met them. We have never had any business dealings. I've never given or received advice from them. I don't know Berk. I've never vouched for them, nor have they vouched for me. I have never visited their shop or even set foot on a Pantera. Other than the fact that I happen to be a boater, and they happen to build boats, we have no connection.

As a guy who happens to own a boat, what is my responsibility as far as "saving" the rest of the boating public from this business, which is technically none of my business? As a boater, am I obligated to spread the word? If I do not spread the word that Pantera has filed, am I an enabler? Am I guilty of fraud due to my resistance to jump on a bandwagon? To what extent are offshore boaters (and fish boats too) obliged to participate in the "warning phase," "celebration of failure," "make sure to kick them wherever they appear," and "I told you so" activities? I am trying to think of a hobby that has such a seemingly strong requirement for uninvolved people to take active roles in the informing, persecuting, educating, flaming, ridiculing, of strangers for the good of that hobby.

Is this a function of social media and the internet driving public opinion and fueling the fires of self-appointed guardians of the public trust? Or is it an actual ethical obligation that a mariner must participate in without fail? Having no dog in this fight, and simply observing the choices, statements and actions of others who have no dog in this fight, I have to wonder.

First, I like the way my post was moved from the "Inside Pantera" thread to this new thread created by someone within Serious Offshore. My post in was to inform the public that Pantera is filing bankruptcy. Per the viewable existing court records Pantera has had a long trail of unpaid bills and extremely late deliveries of customer boat. Since this is a performance boating site I feel it is important that potential Pantera customers know the legal action occurring.
Now for whoever moved my post from the original position to here ........ you lack professional skills.
ed

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Ed,

I moved your thread. I didn't want to discredit your input, but at the same time I did not want your link to change the direction of the thread. It has become a lesson in history I have enjoyed and I felt it is a shame for the recent events to change the direction of the thread.

I moved it with out prejudice and did not intend to hinder the discussion. I wished only to extend Pantera the respect they deserve for sharing their rich history with us and thought the discussion should take place in a different thread.

I own a Fountain, I raced against Pepe and Jo. I am old school and thought a different thread was in order.

[TCEd]

Ed,

I moved your thread. I didn't want to discredit your input, but at the same time I did not want your link to change the direction of the thread. It has become a lesson in history I have enjoyed and I felt it is a shame for the recent events to change the direction of the thread.

I moved it with out prejudice and did not intend to hinder the discussion. I wished only to extend Pantera the respect they deserve for sharing their rich history with us and thought the discussion should take place in a different thread.

I own a Fountain, I raced against Pepe and Jo. I am old school and thought a different thread was in order.

Fine, I own a Fountain also, I'm old school also (67 years old) and I've been around long enough to know they have had a bad track record for a long time.
ed

[Bobcat]

At 67 you should know better. Haven't you seen enough hate and Bull S H I T in your life?

[fund razor]

First, I like the way my post was moved from the "Inside Pantera" thread to this new thread created by someone within Serious Offshore. My post in was to inform the public that Pantera is filing bankruptcy. Per the viewable existing court records Pantera has had a long trail of unpaid bills and extremely late deliveries of customer boat. Since this is a performance boating site I feel it is important that potential Pantera customers know the legal action occurring.
Now for whoever moved my post from the original position to here ........ you lack professional skills.
ed

I guess I was surprised to see you in the old neighborhood. I couldn't remember a single connection to Pantera that you could have had to make this an issue of such personal importance to you that you would break your long silence. I find the dynamics of interpersonal communication in the world of social media to be interesting, especially in the past two years. Your post made me wonder about the expectation of the sport in regard to the individual boater and the obligation to parrot these public service warnings. I think that the internet draws people into issues that they would have otherwise no connection with, and kind of saw this as an example. I suppose the the answer to my question is that you feel a personal responsibility. Clearly it was not the opportunistic drive-by hijacking that it appeared to be when I read it. Perhaps it is newsworthy enough to warrant its own thread. While I am highly doubtful that the 8 people who post on this forum and the 180 who lurk were considering buying a new Pantera, there always could be that one guy from a far away country or something who doesn't have google. I'll accept your suggestion that the post was 100% altruistic "public service" and 0% salt on a wound.

I'm sorry that I hijacked your hijack. I guess since I have nothing at all to do with the the Pantera issue, the social media dynamics became the more interesting aspect to me.
Hopefully you will continue to contribute, on subjects with and without high drama.

Boating really cuts into my internet time, so I'lll leave it there.

[CRC]

I shared the Pantera bankruptcy story on another boating forum. Everyone should be aware of this fact. How would someone feel ordering and paying for a new Pantera just to find out that the company is in bankruptcy? Pretty sick to their stomach I think. This story differs from that of Donzi & Fountain too in that Pantera has not been able to deliver all of the boats that have been paid for and that this filing appears to be in response to one such buyer named "Berk" who has sued the company for a refund. Now he will probably get nothing and is out over $100,000. I would say that this story is worthy of being posted on any and all boating forums.