454 issues

[mung272]

Hi all,

I was out today and had some motor issues... The second time out for the season, I get out of the channel, up on plane, take a couple of good waves and one of the two cuts out a little, comes back and then abruptly quits. the other- after slowing down, does the same. The starters really labor to even turn the motors over. I get one started and it quickly quits- not like it lost spark and shut off; it instantly quit like 2500rpm to 0.

I thought since the one quit and then the other mabye something with water in the tank- so I pulled the water seperator filters. No water just alot of small particles of dirt?...


Anyone on here a mechanic in west mi?

I thought mabye the manifolds leaking water into the cylinders- but both motors??

[mung272]

any ideas as to what would make the motors labor to even turn over like this? It ran fine last year and last weekend. ???

[Buoy]

"Jim, paging Jim to the white courtesy phone..."

Mung, someone will be along shortly with suggestions.
Good luck!

[Ratickle]

Geez bud, what the heck you do now??????

I think you're looking at water in the engines somehow, but I sure as heck hope not....

I'm like you, both motors????? It ran good last weekend?

[mung272]

Yea, last week we only went out of holland to laketown, stayed the day and returned. Only small seas. Today the waves were 3-5' and after it had issues only after a few good ones... Ill run them off a gas can and see how that goes.

[old377guy]

The simple stuff first:Check the timing. Make sure that your kill switches are on correctly and with good connections. Check for missing vacuum port caps (under carbs). Check ignition switch connections. Assuming mechanical fuel pumps - check for diaphram failure (fuel in telltale tube). Choke malfunction (don't know how old your motors are). Check coil wire. Then page Jim.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Check what old guy says. You need to start with the basics. Is the carb working? can you see fuel dripping while it idles. Check Battery connections. Are the batteries good or are you nursing them. Check battery cables at engine and starter. Do you have a battery selector switch? Run each engine of its own battery to help zero in on problem. Check engine main 10 pin connector. Make sure it is pushed in all the way. Clamp should only be snug do not over tighten. Check grounds at distrubotor and amplifiers. If the engine cuts out after all that connect a jumper lead from a positive connection to the pos side of coil.

When you say it labors to crank, Do they crank even like ur ur ur ur ur ur or is it uneven like ur ur ur urah ur ur ur urah?

If you suspect leaking water.. Not that I think that is the problem..It would make it crank un even. It may even crank and stop if it is leaking bad. It will make the engine miss at ilde after a short time. Similar systom of a carb dumping fuel. When you rev it up to 2500 and hold it you can hear it clear out. If that is the case you need to pull the spark plugs to check for rust on them and crank to see if water sprays out. Pull coil lead and run to ground to prevent loose wires from sparking in bilge.

[Donskihp]

What about the gas itself? Did you use ethnol fuel last year? Without stabilizer it breakes down pretty fast, won't remix when shaken and is pretty much unburnable.

[mung272]

The wierd thing is that both motors were running fine and died within minutes of eachother. It has to be gas related- the only thing shared between motors? right? I have'nt directly used ethanol and just put $120 of 93 in last weekend.

when I was in lake mi trying to start the motor(s), the port was more of a uuuuuuur uuuuuuur uuuur uuuur uuur uuur ur ur ur ur ur start- go to 2500 then 2000 then wham 0. the other would crank very hard/slow ur ur ur.... no start and I gave up.

I am pretty sure everything is in working order between the motors, but i will dig in tommorow.

If I can get them to run fine off of a can of clean gas, I'm concerned about the port motor stopping so abruptly- bottom end damage or pushrods? would a compression check see a problem?

Oh and btw its a 1989 formula 272 w/ t330hp's carb

Thanks for the Replys and hopefully no major damage was done.

Batteries were last year and charged up...

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

They may share batteries. Depends how its wired. If they are cranking slow and even and are dying I would dig into the batteries and cables. Are any of the wires getting hot when you crank it? Cables can be tight and still have resistance caused by corrosion. Resistance creates heat. Makes it easier to find problem.

I see numerous loose connection and battery issues early in the season. Take the time to rule that out. Load test your batteries. You can buy a load tester for under $100. Check at batteries and check at starter. There should be very little drop in volts.

[Ratickle]

On the ethanol, what he is talking about is what was left in the tanks from last year. Typically, all gasoline has ethanol/methanol (whichever you think of it as) in it now. Maybe just 10%, but it's there. If it was sitting in there over the winter, and there was none of the really good stabilizers in it, it can seperate and basically become a water based junk, not fuel that will even burn. Once it seperates, I do not know of anything that will make it work. If there was seperated fuel in there from before, maybe the jarring shook some through the filter. Here's a little info to ponder...

Facts About Fuel Additives & Treatments - Serious Offshore'

11 in 2011- #8 Ethanol - Serious Offshore

[mung272]

Well, I cleaned the tank, fresh gas, pulled the battery associated wiring and cleaned those connections, re tightned and they both start and run good. Thanks for all the info!!!

On the other hand, I found why the starboard motor was turning so slowly. The bravo upper gears/ bearings/ bushings siezed. When I was running the engine on the muffs, I brought it to 2000rpm and promptly heard some pretty nasty metal noises.

I am going to need that to get rebuilt a.s.a.p... I thought that the oil resivoir line had an air bubble as I had to keep on adding fluid, but it was burning it up.

Would you think the other side wouldnt be far behind? should I have that side rebiult as well- to be safe? after less than 2 hrs the oil is pretty dark...

[Ratickle]

In Holland I'd probably go with Dick's Performance Marine, LLC - Dick Tryce Mr Gadgets here....

He just did the drives on Faster Dad's 38 Scarab....

[mung272]

Jim,

Thanks for the info of the motor stuff, and helping me w/ the water leak last fall. Great to have someone share the knowledge- and thanks to everyone else that replied.

I am currently looking into the drives- locating a rebuilder or just buying some used ones... no plans on power upgrades so mabye used is the way to go?

Paul, how does a guy get ahold of Mr Gadgets? I googled the name and got a residential number?

[Ratickle]

616-335-8446

[rschap1]

Good Luck with the drives.
Mr. Gadgets is the man for 'em