Can America ever have a real open ocean offshore race series again?

[Ratickle]

It was a twin small-block Sonic that won the first year around Long Island.

There are good reasons for classes, the ones you just listed are the best. Allows comparable boats to run for the win without a speed or time limit. Somewhere I have the old APBA classes for offshore. They were interesting to say the least. I'll dig them up and get them posted.


As for comparing anything out there to a boat like Geico, you are not the only one who feels that way as there was no one they had to beat across the finish line the entire year. Also, don't forget, Turbine is also a GPS class with a maximum breakout speed of 150 in OPA and 155 in SBI. The penalties are pretty stiff for breaking out because of insurance issues. I do believe they can exceed that speed in Extreme Turbine in APBA with a special insurance writer if an extreme boat attends the event, but the only APBA offshore race currently scheduled is the OSS race in Biloxi. They do have the writer this year for the APBA santioned Kilo run scheduled. There may be more, just not positive at this time.

[gearhead]

There are a lot of people out there that are on a low budget and would like to experience offshore racing, it seems like there should be a way to get them in and help develope their interest.
Everyone starts somewere and it is never at the top. I remember the first boat I bought My wife called it the barnacle, it wasn't much but I was proud of it and if anyone wanted to race I would have raced it.
Anyway I hope you guys are getting my point, we can play with our faster boats and act like cavemen but who is going to step into our shoes when we are gone? We need to encourage every level of boat racing so it can continue to develope.
A lot of the top fuel drag racers started out as bracket racers, now look what they are running. There should be a way to set up bracket racing for boats and still run all out.
When I bracket race it is all out, all the way.
I am sorry to have changed the direction of the thread but sometimes you need to get to the root of the problem, Maybe my view is not that insightfull but that is the way I see it.
I would like to buy a 25ft boat or whatever as long as it fits in a catagory so I can race it and at the end of 200 mile race be nose to nose with someone across the finishline, that would be awsome!

[phragle]

Rat, when has the 150 mph turbine rule ever been enforced???

[Ratickle]

Rat, when has the 150 mph turbine rule ever been enforced???

I'm not sure it has been, but there hasn't been any competition in the class recently so the chances of any accidents go way down. This year, my opinion, is they will have to enforce it or lose their sources of insurance because of the issues with litigation. Lack of enforcement of safety rules and procedures appear to be the number one issue discussed about those events. In the race event insurance policy I know about first hand, it was written in the policy that 150mph was max, period (OPA). SBI strengthened their penalties for surpassing the 155mph rule last year with disqualifications and being barred from competition for the season.

[Top Banana]

It was a twin small-block Sonic that won the first year around Long Island.

There are good reasons for classes, the ones you just listed are the best. Allows comparable boats to run for the win without a speed or time limit. Somewhere I have the old APBA classes for offshore. They were interesting to say the least. I'll dig them up and get them posted. .

Old APBA class rules were.

PRODUCTION P - M - S

P Class was bone stock engines no more than 700 cu in with stock sterndrives.
M Class was some modifications allowed, bluprinting, same cu in limit and stock sterndrives
S Class Headers, heavy motorwork plus speedmaster drives

OPEN CLASS I and II

Big block motors, limit 1,000 cu in combined

Open I were twin engine boats
Open II were single engine boats

AV gas was the norm and speedmasters were used in all Open classes...or Arnesons.

The Around Long Island race has a class for single engine 24 footers for either the full race, 271 miles or the shorter 100 mile race. You have a boat, bring it and run it, the experience is more important than the actual result.

[T2x]

I think you guys have forgot what offshore racing or any racing is!

Really? I'll try to remember that......

[gearhead]

Really? I'll try to remember that......

Thats pretty good, so far two negative remarks and both referancing how great you are.
Maybe we should here from you how you started, or maybe you just started at the top and skipped all the steps that a lot of racers go through.
What we need from YOU and other ICON's is some guidance and some input on how to make this sport grow and how to foster interest in the younger generation. They seem to be setting around and playing video games instead of being exposed to the real world. We need to expose them and teach them about offshore racing or any other type of boat racing. They need to see it on tv or in person and to think they could join it at lower levels and work their way up. They need to see it and say yes I could do that also, Not just see Mrs Gieco and think they could never do it.
If you want to save offshore racing you need to start promoting it at the lower levels, that way there is a base of people to draw from.
You seem to be pretty well in the know, maybe you have some insight that would help.
How about some idea's!

[T2x]

both referancing how great you are.

Please provide those quotes........

I would love to see where I said how great I am.

If you can't.....perhaps you should re-examine the rest of your passionate verbal flailing.

Look, nobody wants to see boat racing succeed more than I do...and, for the record, I started with a home built outboard "pumpkinseed" on a kid's budget. However, at no time did I expect, nor want, any other boat racer to limit his speed so I could "keep up".

The sport is in very bad shape right now and it needs good, fact based ideas with proper safety and promotional budgets. Amateur motor racing is under attack all across the country and new federal laws and litigations are increasing by the day it seems. The antidote is money, professional resources, focus, COMPETITION, and marketing..."But what if I can't afford that?????"........ you ask? I don't have any "iconic" answers other than for you to get the chip off your shoulder and try to understand the magnitude of the problem. Past generations worked very hard to build the sport only to have it split up and pissed away. If you can find some ready made short cut solution to elbow grease and dedication, then have at it...... Maybe someday you, too, will be an "Icon".... but you may find all that means is you're a "used to be", rather than a "never was".

T2x

[OneBadInjun]

Please provide those quotes........

I would love to see where I said how great I am.

If you can't.....perhaps you should re-examine the rest of your passionate verbal flailing.

Look, nobody wants to see boat racing succeed more than I do...and, for the record, I started with a home built outboard "pumpkinseed" on a kid's budget. However, at no time did I expect, nor want, any other boat racer to limit his speed so I could "keep up".

The sport is in very bad shape right now and it needs good, fact based ideas with proper safety and promotional budgets. Amateur motor racing is under attack all across the country and new federal laws and litigations are increasing by the day it seems. The antidote is money, professional resources, focus, COMPETITION, and marketing..."But what if I can't afford that?????"........ you ask? I don't have any "iconic" answers other than for you to get the chip off your shoulder and try to understand the magnitude of the problem. Past generations worked very hard to build the sport only to have it split up and pissed away. If you can find some ready made short cut solution to elbow grease and dedication, then have at it...... Maybe someday you, too, will be an "Icon".... but you may find all that means is you're a "used to be", rather than a "never was".

T2x

Really? That's the best response you could come up with, to this threads commentary? Let's try to be a get along & be a bit more respectful to everyone, o.k? Thanks

[T2x]

Really? That's the best response you could come up with, to this threads commentary?

I wasn't aware I had some standard to live up to... I'll be sure to send my responses to you for editing in the future...

T2x

[OneBadInjun]

Let's try to be a get along & be a bit more respectful to everyone, o.k? Thanks

Once again...

[gearhead]

T2x
Thanks for your resonse, at least we are getting some information and out here and some reasons why this sport is haveing problems. Hopefully we can identify some problems and do something about them.
Maybe a little brain storming would be inline here and lets overcome some of these problems.

By the way meeting you in person would be an honor and a high point in my life, even if you did bust my nose!

Anyway lets figure out a way give this sport a shot in the arm.
There will always be change in the way things are done, we just need to adapt to the differant needs in todays world.

[gearhead]

By the way running a 8 second 1/4 mile car in bracket racing doesn't sound like its speed is to limited, it's all out.

[OneBadInjun]

There will always be change in the way things are done, we just need to adapt to the differant needs in todays world.

You hit the nail on the head with this comment gearhead. This is what you younger generations, as well as us older folks, need to always keep in mind...and your good to go.

[gearhead]

I wasn't aware I had some standard to live up to... I'll be sure to send my responses to you for editing in the future...

T2x

T2x
You are right, please say what you want. But hopfully we will try to stay on the subject of finding a solution or cure for this dying sport.
Drag racing is having the same problem and I think it is because we forgot about the younger crowd, we need a class for home built pumkinseeds so we can promote and develop race boat drivers.
We need to provide steping stones to the top becuase someday that is were they will be, and we can sit in our easy chair and be proud of what we did. If we don't we will be sitting around saying what happened!
Maybe we should have a junior offshore category? Just like junior dragsters.
I think that bracket racing would work real good in the smaller boats say under 30 ft.
Their is a lot more sandbagging going on in open racing then in bracket racing.
In bracket racing the faster you go the less time you will be off, 3% of 8 seconds is less than 3% of 15 seconds so you want to run as fast as you can. It is fun to watch because you don't know who is going to win untill they cross the finish line!

[Top Banana]

If you have a boat that you feel is safe for ocean racing, bring it to NY in September. If the boat fits into the wide open classes we have provided, you can start your offshore career. Safety is paramount, if your boat passes the ...Is it safe to race? question, it is in. Pleaseread the rules or contact Billy Frenz directly at NPBA.

Entry fees were $600 until March 31st.....Billy has the latest increase posted on his web site. Classes are on the HORBA site. Historic Offshore Race Boat Association - Boca Raton, FL

[gearhead]

OK, but I have a few questions. Say I buy a 24 ft boat, what kind of speed should it run to be competitive in the historic or D class?
Should it be twin engine if it is an outboard and how do I tell if the boat is safe for offshore racing?
Does it need flush cleats and no hand rail or is that for the faster boats?
Does it need floatation foam in the hull?
Any sugestions would be great I am looking at a 1970's boat that is an outboard. Read the rules but they left a lot to the imagination.
I want to run in a race at least once if I can, it's on my bucket list.
Also can a person modify the boat such as changing the seating position for better balance, say if it is nose heavy.
Are these classes more like a run what you brung?
Could you tell me what would be recommended equipment or specs from your experiences, and what is actually required for these two classes or where to find this info?
Thanks for the help!

[Ratickle]

Man, I'm trying to think of someone close to you who could help, but can't at the moment. Here's my opinion for anyone on a budget:

1. Pick a hull with good history, Pantera, Skater, etc.
2. Find a race team who runs that model.
3. Send them an email, or get ahold of one of the race orgs, and follow their recomendations.

In a 70's outboard boat, there are numerous guys on here who have run them. One of the fastest, and therefore trickiest to drive, is a Velocity. But, when compared to a later model step hull, not as much experience and seat time is needed and they are as fast, or very close.

A straight bottom Vee, like a Pantera 24 or similar, are probably the most forgiving, but also take the most power for the same top speed as a step or pad bottom.

What hulls are you considering?


And I'd say in a 24 you'd want twins. A single in an offshore Vee style is probably 65mph best case that size.

[gearhead]

What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal. – Albert Pike
Very true but may be a little deep for here.

[Ratickle]

Never anything too deep for here......


There are numerous things which need to be done to get the sport back in the forefront of motosporting like it was at one time. Talking about what worked, and what hasn't worked, is one of them.

My opinion, in order of importance, kind of goes like this....


1. Money