Apache Lineage Question

[Ratickle]

Where the heck you been bud?

Was White Lightning built out west? In Seattle or something?

[Sean Stinson]

Yes White Lightning was built out west in Washington State by a guy named Steve Radovich or something very similar to that
name

[Ratickle]

Stinson, do you know the history on Octavia?????

[Sean Stinson]

Yes I do know the history bro

[Geronimo36]

The Thad Allen Apache is the Pantera 41, they added their own step design to the Thad Allen Apache design.

Chief is based on the 41' with a step design using the 36' deck design.

West Coast is McManus. Thad Allen lost the Apache rights in a lawsuit many many hears ago and now McManus owns the original Apache rights. He also took ownership of the 36' hull mold but there is no longer a 36' deck mold.

Most of the info is posted in various threads over the years on OSO.

[C35]

t allen didnt lose anything. he nevr had it. he got hosed by the guy that sold him a name he didn't own. dip$hit allen spent big $$ building molds before he had the name. too bad- i alwys wondered why he didnt just build it with a diff name. he just walked away

[Geronimo36]

Lost it, got hosed, smoked too much crack.... depends who you talk too...

[Ratickle]

Now that's some stuff to talk about.....

[C35]

Lost it, got hosed, smoked too much crack.... depends who you talk too...

isnt he the dude that had to buy his own lambo back from the pd after they chased him home?

[Geronimo36]

CS, I'm not sure.

[Ratickle]

I'll see what I can find out. May make a great Joe Offshore story.....

[Sean Stinson]

Now, as for what I believe I know in addition to the above.....

I think it's confusing a little because Bobby isn't filling in all the blanks in that letter. Hopefully this will help, (and is close to accurate), fill in those blanks.

Here goes..................

Bobby bought the original molds from Don Aronow and began producing the Apache 41. No boats had been pulled from that tooling prior to that purchase. Under Bobby and Ben Kramer, Apache built race and pleasure versions of the boat. Each one was different like custom boats all typically are. Not only could you get it any way you wanted, you could get any weight (within reason) you wanted.

If you wanted it really fast, you could get a light layup and a paper thin deck, etc. Also, "back then", production was a little different. On a standard layup a pleasure Apache will have some variance in weight, maybe as much as a thousand pounds or so, due to more or less resin and cloth going in various places. The standard Apache hull is laid up like the original Cigarette's. They're made to last, that's why so many people like to call them "resin buckets". Apache and Cigarette built boats like the Amish build barns. Not so much what we call "High Tech" now, but what they knew they wouldn't break from decades of experience. Unlike today's boats, they were built old-school. Resin and cloth, and lots of it. No composites, no balsa or foam cores, no carbon, no honeycombs.

As far as "different 41's", you have the original "Saccenti built" boats and then the Apaches built once Mark McManus took over the company. McManus then built a boat called the Comanche 42 which Bob references. Believe it or not they were even heavier than the 41's. Great ride but not all that highly regarded in the Apache community. The short of it is that Apache really doesn't build boats and hasn't for some time. They do alot of restorations.

A few years back a money guy by the name of Thad Allen thought he could just begin building boats under the name Apache. He thought he could litigate and get the name. While that was going on he went ahead and built some very fancy CNC molds and set up shop. Long story that I know very little of, but he lost in court and shut everything down. Those molds eventally ended up in the hands of Pantera who has produced a couple boats from them.

Another company called Saber got ahold of of some 41 molds and began producing a 41. Nice boat and pretty well built up here. They also have the original 47 molds but have built none, (I've heard rumors one is in the works now). This is the company Bob references as the "Ohio company" but they're really here in Michigan. If anyone picked up where Bob left off, it's probably Saber.

There are some "splashed" molds of the 41 floating around but I don't believe anyone has produced a boat from them. An apache copy was built a few years back. Boat was called White Lightning. It was a custom one-off and built by someone not all that well known. Very nicely built, but there's only one and it's not an Apache.

So as far as different versions-

Saccenti built 41(few of them)

McManus built 41(most of them)

McManus built 42 Comanche (not an Apache but based on the 41, not sure how many)

Saber built 41 (not an Apache but from the molds. I see them up here all the time as friends have a couple of them)

Thad A. built 41 Apache (none made)

41 Pantera (nothing really Apache about it other than the name connection)

Various copies and splashes (unknown, White Lightning is the best known)

So there really aren't that many options in a real Apache 41. It comes down to the various full-stagger ex-raceboats and in pleasure boats the side-by-sides or the short-stagger boats. Then the various splashes and "tributes".





Ladies and Gentlemen, I hope this is really close. I'm waiting........

Bro I don't feel like filling in the blanks tonight but buddy I will help you cross the T's and dot the I's

[Ratickle]

We'll chat Sean. Very soon.....