Apache Lineage Question

[Ratickle]

Add Chief to that list. Maybe the most Apache of all the boats not actually made by Apache- and maybe some that were.

Yea, ask Sunkin and some of the Chicago boys about riding with Bobby on the wheel and sticks in it at Michigan City a couple years ago......


I think a couple came back ghost white......

[Ratickle]

"West Coast" refers the the west coast of Florida, the McManus shop is in Ft. Myers.

I believe that all of the 47's have a little pad, and all 41's and 47's have a notch. I think the 41 saber "Wiked Won" is the only 41 without a notch. I am not pro, just what I have seen over the years.

The only diference I am aware of in "real" 41 apaches is in the transom angle. You can see that most have a "nuckle" where the transom juts out to meet the rubrail, others , like Warpath and the Chiro One boat are straight.

Only Rumors is the only Apache 41 with a step I'm almost positive. I do think I'd call it a "Real" one.....

[old377guy]

Man, you guys have unearthed more info that I though I'd get - impressive.

[DrGaryDC]

What other boat out there has the history, stories, and legacy like an apache. That is why they are so desirable

[DrGaryDC]

Does anyone know what the last number 41 was built by Saccenti?

[C35]

Only Rumors is the only Apache 41 with a step I'm almost positive. I do think I'd call it a "Real" one.....

I talked to the owners brother once. He was launching it near Chicago. Told me they got ahold of the mold Cigarette used to make the piece for their prototype step 38. It's a big overlay that bonded on the bottom. I guess the apache really is a larger cig 38. or at least very close. In know the boat is definitely taller up front. He told me it really helped midrange cruise but not much on top. I don't know much about steps but maybe because its just one step?

[DrGaryDC]

Im not sure i would want to mess with an apache bottom. My dad made a good comparison. The 41 apache is like an old classic car, such as a 50 mercury, and the new technology stepped bottom vee's are like a lamborghini. You cant turn a mercury into a lamborghini

[C35]

The guy with the step apache owned teh company that built the chief. From what he said and what I've read it does everything the 41 does, but 10 mph faster with the same power. It also doesn't have that lope theyre notorious for at cruise.

Like rat said, they did something to the chines and it turns like its on rails. There's also something about their steps that's different but i dunno how it works.

Your analogy was good, but im guessing if saccenti built it and it's based on the 41, maybe it's more like a Lambo Diablo vs a Murcialago-- just an evolution.

One other thing i remember him telling me. That the following year the top gun had the same (i think) chine as the chief. He didnt say directly that they swiped it but i got the point

[DrGaryDC]

Thats true about the lope at cruise speed. I was in a 39 MTI that didnt smooth out the ride until 90mph. Guess they all have their issues

[C35]

isnt that the truth!

i was on a chris cat once- a miserable and soaking wet ride until about 65-70. then is was an amazing ride.

[Ratickle]

isnt that the truth!

i was on a chris cat once- a miserable and soaking wet ride until about 65-70. then is was an amazing ride.

A friends 33 Ocean Express was the same way. I swear at up to 50 in 4's every wave came over the bow......

[fund razor]

I get hit by the occasional rogue wave until I am really up on top of it.

[DrGaryDC]

I think the only time i got wet was in the ocean city inlet, that is some nasty water

[Ratickle]

I think the only time i got wet was in the ocean city inlet, that is some nasty water

You should have been at Orange Beach......

[BarChopper]

As far as I know. The bottom INSERT on Only Rumors was attached BY Chris Merrill. Chris was a boat manufacturer in Granger, IN. Built cats, and did mold work, repairs and such on offshore boats. He owned Only Rumors for some time. The insert is the same insert that was used on the early F2 cigs. I really didn't notice the step doing much until the 6 drives were added on Rumors. It had old style 3's on it the first time I was in it, and a long time after... so many hours with that set up. The step we all assumed helped efficiency at cruise ( would make sense right? ). When the six drives came into play the boat really livened up. we started looking at top end numbers and noticed it was a bit more efficient then similarly powered 41's. This is based ENTIRLEY on posted numbers from other owners, and Apache peeps. The boat does settle more on the notch, and the lope is lessened. ( see Pics) I have read comments that it could make the boat unstable in high speed cornering... I havent ever felt that or had concern, BUT the boat has never been in a offshore race where the situation for a HARD PUSHED turn would be in need. Being it is a pleasure set up. I dont ever see that turn happening.

The Chief bottom is a totally different animal.

I attached some pics for everyone to look at.

I did see some Cigs doing the reverse chine in the early days. I am assuming it was for grab in corners at speed.

I know nothing about the notch counts on Apache builds and Saber builds But I did notice the absence of notches on the Sabers I looked at but the addition of the boxes on the six drives had to cure that a bit. :-)

[Ratickle]

I think one of the issues with the reversed chine in the Cig is that it is not legal for racing in Vee. In the early days of Offshore, the Cats and Vees ran together so it made no difference. There can be no downward chines on a Vee because they trap air which is a no-no. They then have to race in the Cat class as an air entrapment design. The new step design with the air entrapment strake design behind the last step would have the same issue.

[C35]

yeah you wouldnt want to reduce spinouts on the racecourse.

[Ratickle]

yeah you wouldnt want to reduce spinouts on the racecourse.

That's also true.....

[Ratickle]

By the way, that is also the reason the Vee rules say steps must be vented to the atmosphere.

[Sean Stinson]

The poor performer Bobby is referring to was the Cigar Boat......it was splashed off one of the Team Apache boats and one was built and rolled in dumbfounding bay when the test pilots put it into a hard turn with the drives tucked under.....the step on only rumors was added by Bobby Moore I am pretty sure but Chris Merrill did own the boat at one time I believe!!!!!