Merc 420 Cyclone engines

[600sci]

I'll disagree with youthere. My 630HP 540's puked 9 plate 72's twice before I had them done with the 1450 Huber setup's. They only had 602 lbs torque....

WOW...learn how to throttle...LOLOLOLOL

no, seriously... to make a 8 plate last.. u use the clutches from a chrysler tranny ( KEVLAR ) from the local autozone store.... i have to look up the #... but they are like 300+ bucks only.
Then u maschine the housing inside and fit 2 more in them . WUOLLA...now u have your HP 1000 TRANNY !

and mine had 8 plates..3 years no problem... now 10 plates...because the shift lever was bad.. so we did the hole thing !

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

You guys have hi Jacked Brian's thread.

[600sci]

You guys have hi Jacked Brian's thread.

OOOOPSSSS.. SORRY


back on track PLS !

[BDC1013]

On your boat there is a cork gasket between the transom plate and the transom. Yes, when the engines are out it is certainly easier. Other than that there is an o ring and a gasket that should be changed every time the drive comes off. Both are in expensive.

The cork gasket is the one I was told to change out. The boat is back in storage for the weekend, so not sure when I'll get to working on it again

[BDC1013]

If you haven't gotten those props off yet, I'd use some heat and either a socket on a big bar or a powerful impact. Don't make them glow as you'll melt the shaft seals. But getting them pretty hot with a mapp gas torch should break them loose. They're standard thread. You should be able to get a piece of lumber between the prop and the cavitation plate- the horizontal plate that's above the prop. Get the wood on the body of the blade, not the tip.

And DON'T HIT THEM to remove the props. You don't even want to know what #3 props cost. get the proper puller. Someone will probably rent you one.

That's some great info on getting the props off. I will try to put the lumber between the part above the blade. I was also told the clever style blades are junk now and to get new ones... But they are there so if they worked once before they will be just fine now.


When are you going to ship out those engines?

[C35]

Just waiting on the truck to get here. They're in the crate.

[C35]

I was also told the clever style blades are junk now and to get new ones... But they are there so if they worked once before they will be just fine now.


:

That's the attitude to have with a project like this.

I bet new props would give you a couple, maybe 3 more MPH. Probably only cost you $6,000. That's cheap speed if you have a $300K boat. But...

P.S. Look at all the pics of transoms on raceboats posted on here. You won't see may that don't have cleavers. I don't think anyone makes a round-ear for the SSM.

[Ratickle]

I agree totally on the props. There is no way to make any kind of decision until the boat has been completed and run for awhile. But I'd have to believe, from the pics of your boat and what you have, your Dad had the best available at the time for the horsepower he was running, so I wouldn't even give it a thought.

As for the engines, $7500 is a reasonable price for a pair of crate 454's marinized, shipping is probably $500/plus from Ohio to California. What are they missing to run in your boat? Do you have everything to finish both? Rebuild/review #3 drives, $2000, another $500/plus shipping. I don't know what your budget is, but sell your one engine, and maybe for $11,000 or $12,000 you have a completed boat ready for fun.

[MILD THUNDER]

Sounds like you are getting some bogus information.

As for the cleaver props being "junk", far from true. Whoever told you that, is probably talking from the old days of TRS drives with the Cleaver style props the TRS came with. Totally different prop setup.

The ssm 3 blades are normally big diameter props. Sure, going to a 4 blade might make the boat cruise a little better at cruising RPM, but they are far from junk. I have several friends running 3 blades on their #3 big V bottoms. My buddy with his 41 apache runs them, and it gets on plane like a mastercraft ski boat. Normally, if you know where to look, you can find a set of older 19 spline ssm props in good shape for under 2k dollars. I wouldnt worry about that at this point though.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

My guess is the only thing the drives may need is prop shaft seals. Unless there are signs of water in them save your money for something else. They are bullet proof behind 420's. Just drain pressure check them. If they hold pressure fill'um and run' um.

As far as cleavers go . The fastest boats in the world run cleavers. Yea, there have been great strides in props but, the ones on there will work just fine.

Everyone wants to change , upgrade or re engineer. Restore the boat as it is. Don't give change a second thought. You can spend , spend spend, in countless places following the latest trend and see little reward for your money.

[C35]

As for the engines, $7500 is a reasonable price for a pair of crate 454's marinized, .

Yeah. I have the receipt for a few bucks shy of $15K. I looked at Summit Racing. The pair is over $12k with tax, before the work.

BDC- lemme know if you're still interested. If not I'm going to get them put up in the classifieds and on racingjunk.com. They're just collecting dust.

[600sci]

My guess is the only thing the drives may need is prop shaft seals. Unless there are signs of water in them save your money for something else. They are bullet proof behind 420's. Just drain pressure check them. If they hold pressure fill'um and run' um.

Jim,

why do u give this info.. HE NEEDS to get them checked out ..TRUSST ME !
there are 2 seals on the propshaft facing each other .. one keeps oil in other keeps water out... then there is one on the donkey di(K ( input shaft ..that 95% needs to be sleeved because i bet from sitting its shot and groved the shaft at the seal. DONT ASK ME HOW I KNOW !!! I can only tell u an advice like that cost me 4800 bucks on 1 drive !

PS. mine held pressure untill i ran the boat...OIL GONE !!!!!
but it held 18 PSI sitting for 24 hours ! just sayin'

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Scott, there are actually three seals on the prop shaft. The seals face away from each other. The inner faces in to hold the oil and the other two face out. The input shaft gets a groove from use or it gets pitted from water. Brain showed a pic looking in the bellows. Clean as can be.

I know you had problems. That is very often the case buying used parts.

Brian , there is a hose connecting the gear lube reservoir on the inner plate to the bell housing. Very important hose. You should change it too when you change the cork gasket.

[600sci]

Scott, there are actually three seals on the prop shaft. The seals face away from each other. The inner faces in to hold the oil and the other two face out. The input shaft gets a groove from use or it gets pitted from water. Brain showed a pic looking in the bellows. Clean as can be.

I know you had problems. That is very often the case buying used parts.

Brian , there is a hose connecting the gear lube reservoir on the inner plate to the bell housing. Very important hose. You should change it too when you change the cork gasket.

K....i guess i shut up .. LOL PS..GONNA BE HARD FOR ME , u all know that !

[C35]

The input shaft gets a groove from use or it gets pitted from water.

.

Not to hijack, but I was working on an outboard this summer that had grooves in the driveshaft from the water pump seal. The shaft was NLA and I couldn't find a used one. I used a pair of Speedi-Sleeves on it. Their installation tool is onlt about an inch long so for that long shaft I had to make a tool to push them on, but it was just a piece of thinwall aluminum tube. Worked like a charm.

[MILD THUNDER]

Also, in the ssm manual, from factory there are seal shims, between the seals. These shims can be removed which will allow new seals to ride on new part of shaft...

I had to replace the propshaft seals on my #4. One of them was dripping oil. I did it a cheap way, that did work. I was able to drill tiny pilot holes in the metal lip of the seals, then screwed in a sheet metal screw. Was able to pop the seals out. Then using the proper seal driver, installed new seals. It worked. I just got lucky on that one.

[C35]

I've always wondered if there was a way to check gear lash in a SSM without disassembly. I'm guessing with a tool to hold one shaft and another to give a measurement point from, it wouldn't be hard. But has anyone done it?

If you've got pieces flaking off of gear faces, that would be easy to find. It's the microscopic wear on gear faces and shims that allow the clearances to open up and cause damage that's hard to detect.

[BDC1013]

Yeah. I have the receipt for a few bucks shy of $15K. I looked at Summit Racing. The pair is over $12k with tax, before the work.

BDC- lemme know if you're still interested. If not I'm going to get them put up in the classifieds and on racingjunk.com. They're just collecting dust.

These engines are basically what I'm saving for. I figured if luck was on my side, if i save up for them and you still have them then I'm going to buy. If you don't have them by that time, then ill have to start looking elsewhere. They seem perfect price, and hp for what I want to do with this boat.

[BDC1013]

yeah im not looking for this boat to do 80-85 mph. If it can cruise at 60 i'd be happy. The main goal of this project is to show respect for my dad in doing something that he loved to do with his family. He asked for me to get it going, and he wants his ashes spread in SF bay. So even if i have to live on the boat while im fixing it, i will do it.

I was doing some reasearch, looks like those drives are pretty heavy. Not a chance im going to be able to just lift them off once i unbolt them. Best bet for me is to just take the boat to a local shop and have them gone through professionally. Would make no sense to put all the time and money into getting the boat ready and have a failure in the drives for the sake of saving 1k. Once it goes in the water I want to be confident the boat is safe and reliable.

[600sci]

yeah im not looking for this boat to do 80-85 mph. If it can cruise at 60 i'd be happy. The main goal of this project is to show respect for my dad in doing something that he loved to do with his family. He asked for me to get it going, and he wants his ashes spread in SF bay. So even if i have to live on the boat while im fixing it, i will do it.

I was doing some reasearch, looks like those drives are pretty heavy. Not a chance im going to be able to just lift them off once i unbolt them. Best bet for me is to just take the boat to a local shop and have them gone through professionally. Would make no sense to put all the time and money into getting the boat ready and have a failure in the drives for the sake of saving 1k. Once it goes in the water I want to be confident the boat is safe and reliable.

LIFTING THE DRIVES OFF ??? NO !!!

i use a engine hoist . works well !