The Positive SVL thread

[Mike A.]

I think it would be nice if other hull designs could be let in. Built to fit into the class. I know the concern there is some crazy one off class killer, what most of you thought the fountain would be. the fact remains that it still takes a certain amount of water to float a boat that weighs 4700 lbs. and a 525 will only push it so fast. So as long as Aerodynamic add ons like wings etc. are kept out. one should be able to design a new boat, or retrofit a canopy on an old boat to be able to race in the class. The design and assembly of these types that want in could be watched along the build process for all to see so there would be no crazy one off built in secret designs that would be allowed to race. A pad boat would normally be faster than a straight vee, but won't do rough water as well. If there were rules for boats to be built by it would be cool. I would love to get into SVL at some time but don't necessarily want a Phantom, Extreme, or Lavey..... Or Fountain.

IMO you should start with a "single step" rule. All active SVL boat builders, including Fountain, has a single step boat from which to develop an SVL.

[Racerguymiami]

IMO you should start with a "single step" rule. All active SVL boat builders, including Fountain, has a single step boat from which to develop an SVL.

Edited

[Ratickle]

IMO you should start with a "single step" rule. All active SVL boat builders, including Fountain, has a single step boat from which to develop an SVL.

I think you could run a twin step boat in the same class, but their drive should have to be 1/2" deeper, or they should be limited to 100 less RPM, and the parity would still stay in play.

[Ratickle]

Edited

Put your comments in. The only thing requested, and I hope we can do it, is be positive. Constructive criticism can also be positive.

[Wreckdoctor]

Mike A. Was there originally a 95 mph speed limit set on the class? I've heard this from a few people.

[heater63]

I think a speed limit or even checking lap times each lap would keep the boats more even.What does everyone think?

[Bilgerat]

Extra steps don't necessarilly make for a faster boat, but they do seem to help them spin.

[Phantom1]

Extra steps don't necessarilly make for a faster boat, but they do seem to help them spin.

LOL....in a most positive laugh of course

[Wreckdoctor]

I think a speed limit or even checking lap times each lap would keep the boats more even.What does everyone think?

I'm not saying that a speed limit is really the answer, most of our boats are running almost the exact same speed now, on the course this year the boat with the best acceleration to turn one wins the race, I think better parity in power is where we need to start.

What I liked about this class so much is that all boats have the same power,and weight, and for the most part bottom.

After what I've learned from personal experience with my boat this year top end speed is found in setup more so than bottom tweaking, setup properly these boats ride on the last two feet anyway for best top end.

So , that being said I think that we need to make sure that every boat in Svl that races has to run a motor that has been checked by an independent dyno that we all agree on and sealed to verify max h/p and set parameters. If the motor tested produces more than what the stock 525 makes then it should not be allowed to race.

I think we all need to choose a dyno, Smitty, innovation, whomever it is, and seal all the motors on the course, no seal, then run p class.

As to ecms, I see only two easy fixes for this issue since the ability to test them is such an issue,
One, open them up and run your best program, as was the case with sbi in kw,
Or two, have sealed ecms at each race that get handed out in a random order that get turned back in after the race.

The bottom line is that we have a great class, a great platform, and regardless of what most people that read these post think, we have a group of guys, and gals, that love getting into our boats, strapping our a$$'s in, and running the crap out of our equipment in a safe inviroment aginst each other,

We all disagree sometimes but when it comes down to it, when we are all together we all want parity, we want to run with 10 other boats that we might be able to beat on anygiven day if we get our setup right, and don't screw up in the turns.

Svl will be a better class next year because of the growing pains we suffered this year, we will work thru this and be stronger because of it.

[Ron P]

Would you guys mind swapping out the ECMs at every race? We did this in OSS for the Cat Lite and 850 class and it worked but racers complained...(gee go figure)

Mercury gave us a great deal, like $200 a pop for two dozen of them. It's a simple fix for that part of the problem and easy to police.

[XtremeRacing]

Would you guys mind swapping out the ECMs at every race? We did this in OSS for the Cat Lite and 850 class and it worked but racers complained...(gee go figure)

Mercury gave us a great deal, like $200 a pop for two dozen of them. It's a simple fix for that part of the problem and easy to police.

The racers in OSS didnt want it what makes u think they would want it now ??? Didnt work then and isnt going to work now.

[imco offshore]

well put Lance,I still love this class and all the people in it,,i,v had my feelings hurt a few times but i would still not want to move or trade anyone in it..(of the orginal 12)were in a great position right now ,,being that Smitty is still willing to keep putting his time and efforts into help us AGAIN,,I believe he sees a value in SVL SCL SS and we need to show support and stick together,,As for the rules I don,t believe we need to be involved any more ,,he has seen the problems from the outside and can confide in others as to what made these classes successfull ,and build us a fair set rules we all can live with.. I know some are saying i,m a Smitty ??? what ever ..and yes he gave us everything we wanted and needed and demanded this year ,,and we still fell apart..
I for one am going to stand behind him this year,,I want to race a whole season like the old days..my 2 cents of positive..thanks for reading my ,,I have a dream speach ,sorry

[imco offshore]

Would you guys mind swapping out the ECMs at every race? We did this in OSS for the Cat Lite and 850 class and it worked but racers complained...(gee go figure)

Mercury gave us a great deal, like $200 a pop for two dozen of them. It's a simple fix for that part of the problem and easy to police.

ron i talked to Smitty about that ,and it seems that if you put them on and off to many times the pins in the harness get loose..

[XtremeRacing]

I think everyone will be happy with some of the changes that will be made for 2011

[imco offshore]

and suprised

[Steve Miklos]

Would you guys mind swapping out the ECMs at every race? We did this in OSS for the Cat Lite and 850 class and it worked but racers complained...(gee go figure)

Mercury gave us a great deal, like $200 a pop for two dozen of them. It's a simple fix for that part of the problem and easy to police.

I will say this for the 10th or 12th time.

If we all run data loggers most of this is handled. They are about $1200.00 and have have many benefits. We have run racepak since 2005 and ran a proprietary system from 2000 -2005. I would recommend posting all the boats data to a common website after they race and to archive them for many years for all to see.

While at first it was very clear to some and others were in disbelief it is now very clear to everyone, not all of us are well intentioned Sportsman.
Steve

[Wreckdoctor]

I will say this for the 10th or 12th time.

If we all run data loggers most of this is handled. They are about $1200.00 and have have many benefits. We have run racepak since 2005 and ran a proprietary system from 2000 -2005. I would recommend posting all the boats data to a common website after they race and to archive them for many years for all to see.

While at first it was very clear to some and others were in disbelief it is now very clear to everyone, not all of us are well intentioned Sportsman.
Steve

Steve I agree, your idea on data recording and then making the data public knowledge for all to see would stop any infractions with higher rpms, and would make top speeds and I assume acceleration public knowledge.

I guess my point I'm trying to make is that right now, nobody truly knows what is in any of the motors that are currently racing, or how much power they are truly producing,

My opinion is that we dyno all exhisting and future motors coming into the class and make that information public as well, I feel the powerplant that we use along with the hull are the foundations we all start with.
If these are common then we move on to step two, but without verifying what power we all truly have then the rest is all for nothing.

I'm pretty sure that a motor producing 650 hp will out perform and out
accelerate a motor producing 550 hp. While turning the exact same rpms.
If you can spin a larger wheel and be on the rev limiter you are going to go faster, it's pretty simple.

The fact is having a sealed motor right now means absolutly nothing to me. Seals can be purchased, manipulated, etc. So my solution is to verify all motors currently racing, by an independent source, mark them, seal them, and then we all start at zero with power, until a torque meter or some other device comes along that by your admission, probably isn't going to be provided, then the only solution is to dyno the motors to assure parity among all the boats as power.

Once that is done, then we work on maintaining how the power is applied at the prop, thru data loggers, gps that can track acceleration, etc.

As to ecms, I'm sorry, it is too easy to manipulate an ECM currently, and unfortunatly, as nice as someone seems, and how much you may respect them,and feel they can be trusted, infractions will happen if we are all allowed to choose what ECM we use without being closely monitored.

We are a great group of people, but without rules and enforcement I see no way that we can all race on a level playing field.
It is both time consuming and expensive to police our small class for the organizations, the simpler we can make that process for them, the better off we all are.

[XtremeRacing]

Steve I agree, your idea on data recording and then making the data public knowledge for all to see would stop any infractions with higher rpms, and would make top speeds and I assume acceleration public knowledge.

I guess my point I'm trying to make is that right now, nobody truly knows what is in any of the motors that are currently racing, or how much power they are truly producing,

My opinion is that we dyno all exhisting and future motors coming into the class and make that information public as well, I feel the powerplant that we use along with the hull are the foundations we all start with.
If these are common then we move on to step two, but without verifying what power we all truly have then the rest is all for nothing.

I'm pretty sure that a motor producing 650 hp will out perform and out
accelerate a motor producing 550 hp. While turning the exact same rpms.
If you can spin a larger wheel and be on the rev limiter you are going to go faster, it's pretty simple.

The fact is having a sealed motor right now means absolutly nothing to me. Seals can be purchased, manipulated, etc. So my solution is to verify all motors currently racing, by an independent source, mark them, seal them, and then we all start at zero with power, until a torque meter or some other device comes along that by your admission, probably isn't going to be provided, then the only solution is to dyno the motors to assure parity among all the boats as power.

Once that is done, then we work on maintaining how the power is applied at the prop, thru data loggers, gps that can track acceleration, etc.

As to ecms, I'm sorry, it is too easy to manipulate an ECM currently, and unfortunatly, as nice as someone seems, and how much you may respect them,and feel they can be trusted, infractions will happen if we are all allowed to choose what ECM we use without being closely monitored.

We are a great group of people, but without rules and enforcement I see no way that we can all race on a level playing field.
It is both time consuming and expensive to police our small class for the organizations, the simpler we can make that process for them, the better off we all are.

[imco offshore]

data loggers would let the tech men spend 5 min on each boat,,simple
Lance are you suggesting we open ecm,s or limit them to stock

[Wreckdoctor]

George, Im really not suggesting either. I'm simply saying that there are two solutions to the ECM variable.

One, open them up, if you open them up to run whatever you want then you take the ECM problem out of the equation. Simpler on the organization in my opinion.

Or two, police the ECM by handing each team a control unit at every race. My only reservation to this method is an ECM is easily hidden in a boat, if someone wants to take the time to run the wiring, and switch mount which ECM controls the motor, then this method can be manipulated. Plug the stock box in for inspectors to see, then at race time switch back to a hidden box. I know that there are programs that officials can use to monitor usage and how a box was run during a race, but again this is time consuming for an organization to monitor.

Look, eventually if we make our class to much of a pain in the a$$ for the organizations to police, and become too large of a thorn in their side, we will be told to simply race p class, problem solved in the organizations eyes.

I personally don't want this to happen, I want to race with boats that anygiven day I may be able to beat, and not have to worry about breaking out of a set speed limit. Once that happens, you have 900 hp motors in 75 mph boats. I prefer to race where ability and setup win the race, not acceleration to a set speed, that class exhist already.

We have been given the platform for what I feel is the best class in offshore,
It's affordable, it's competitive, and driving one of these things is the biggest rush I have found to date. It's pretty clear to me that alot of people feel the same way, for over a year now Svl has been the main topic of discussion on these boards, for better or worse, it is a very popular class and holds not only the racers attention, but the public and the fans as well.

As racers we need to put aside our personal differences, and get down to real world solutions on how to achive parity among our class. Its not rocket science, these are boats and motors, let's make rules and enforce them. Without rules, infractions will happen, so in making rules let's keep it simple for the organizations to police us, And turn control over to them.