Isn't Reggie a lawyer?? Pretty much explains it all LOL
Thread: Fountain/Forehand Failure?
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11-21-2010 03:37 PM
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11-21-2010 04:29 PMNot Reggies boat ...put the blame where it should be.
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11-21-2010 06:14 PM
I always thought the SVL rules were like the F1 rules other then the X dim., ext box/lower, and ballest tank rule, other then that I thought it was the same...
The good thing now with Smitty and John handling the rules...is the non-involved will have no say...along with the racers..the rules will be set and that will be it...then you guys can just go and race...2009 Activator/ Powered by ILMOR
#540 Boat Responsibly Racing
Presented by your U.S. Coast Guard
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11-21-2010 06:25 PM
i,m still willing to bet that someone will say ,,,WELL THAT IS WHAT IT USTO TO BE ,, right after they get beat,,
they need to read the NEW RULES build their boat accordingly , and come back and race ,,they will have all winter ,,instead of putting it in the back of a warehouse for 5 months ,then pulling it out and wash it off ,,and think it automagicly updated it self..,,IMCO #10- 2009 National Champions
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11-21-2010 08:01 PM
Not quite sure what your saying here George, as a group we are trying to move forward in a positive manner, appears we will be getting some really good direction with the help of the orgs. Really wish as racers we could keep this moving in the right direction, you more than anyone should realize public perception of our class means alot, not only to the general public but possible sponsors as well. We are headed in a good direction, let's keep it that way.
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11-21-2010 08:10 PM
I too just want everyone to step up and attack next season hard ,,I will do what ever i can to help anyone go faster and be safe!..I know you are one of the few who will come back with a vengance,,,I just want the ones who don,t do anything ,not get upset with the ones of us who do . .Lance I know you understand what i,m saying,,this class is going into it,s comming out season,,!!I agree ,,
ps Lance start a new thread ,so we don,t keep posting on this Forhand failure thread..IMCO #10- 2009 National Champions
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11-21-2010 08:31 PMI did george! its called the positive SVL thread.And so far everyone has pretty much been behavin
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11-21-2010 08:38 PM
I agree George, last year I was one of the people sitting out there wondering if I wanted to jump into the Svl class and was really on the fence for quite a while, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of folks out there in the same position I was right now. I know you and the rest of us that raced this season in Svl welcome anyone that is interested in our class to get in and join us for a strong upcoming season with some clear direction from the orgs.
The main reason I got in this class was because of the overwhelming help and support I got from everyone in the class before I ever bought a boat, you personally helped me find my boat and got me in touch with the prior owner.
This type of professionalism is what we need to get back to to help get new teams and boats out on the course.
There are exhisting running boats out there that need to be on the water, and manufacturers that want to showcase their boats in our class, my goal this off season is to help make the Svl class the best on the water next season.
Thanks again for helping me make the move and getting us out there on the course.
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11-21-2010 08:41 PM
me too Lance ,,lets post on the POSTIVE THREAD ,,and let this horse die in peace,
IMCO #10- 2009 National Champions
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11-21-2010 09:40 PMWish they were. And I think the racers should have input before the rules are set in stone.
The bigger gray issues are ballast tanks, gear ratios, prop diameters, correcting bottom issues vs modifying the bottom, rpm, modified ecms, aerodynamic tendencies of the hull design, no changes to the design of the drive vs adding a nose cone which must be approved by the org 30 days prior to competition, etc. Many of these things are unpoliceable. Like bottom modifications. How do you make sure a boat still fits the mold of a homologized hull? That is the only requirement in one org, and in another there are no requirements governing hull modifications.
Most of the issues are because of differences in rules between the orgs. Like running the 1.69 gear in SBI vs not allowed in the other two. But, then one team, ran the 1.69 in one of the other orgs, with the bigger prop, because it was legal elsewhere. Same with bottom modifications vs bottom changes and reprogramming ecm's.
I'd like to see no ballast tanks, 1.50 max gear ratio, 15.75 diameter prop max, no hull water pickups allowed, a maximum rpm measured with a data acquisition unit, etc.
If the drive issue and prop diameter are not addressed, one of these days we will see a surface piercing Bravo type drive because of a new hull and prop design. I'd guess a 3 to 5 mph advantage with the right combination.
Another issue is with the ecm's being allowed to be modified, a high dollar team can eliminate all others as we've seen, by reprogramming the late model merc to run at around 6000+ rpm where the earlier merc's will not, but it will probably only last around 30 hours based on testing, but will make an additional 40hp. But, if you have the money, who cares. You can still go collect trophies. That is why a maximum rpm should be addressed.
Anyway, I hope some of these things are addressed. The small improvements to a hull you can do in your garage means nothing compared to having unlimited funds to reprogram ecm's and rebuild engines with a short life span.
And, as we've certainly found out, the tech rules need to be simple enough that the boats get teched who place in the top three at every race. If they are too complex, you have those who know they won't get teched only getting caught cheating by accident when making a tactical error.
I firmly believe a sealed engine program only makes it easy for the serious cheaters to avoid detection because they know they will not get teched if they have duplicated the seals. And, as we know in today's world, duplicating the seals with rapid prototype technology is only a couple days work if you have the funds available to you.
That is why I think Whistler compression units and P&G cubic inch measurement units should be used vs sealed engines. That, combined with the maximum rpm measured while racing, weight minimum, width min/max, height minx, prop diameter max, water pickup in drive, and possibly drive height will make it so that it will almost be impossible to cheat.
No ballast tanks is also to eliminate cronic cheaters. In P1 they have no water pickups allowed other than engine cooling, and it must be external to the engine on entry and exit.
I would also always leave the clause of some kind about parity. My best thought is it should be RPM's so that other boat builders and engine builders can participate.Getting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!
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11-23-2010 03:57 PM
Can someone tell me what type of competitive advantage an aluminum flywheel is going to translate into on the race course. Does it really free up enough HP to really make a difference? Really not looking to get into the moral/ethical side of this, strictly interested in the technical side. Also, maybe I missed it, but what was the penalty levied on the Fountain team/boat after the infraction was found?
Last edited by Big Time; 11-23-2010 at 04:43 PM.
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11-23-2010 04:32 PM
There is a lot of dumb in this thread.
I include myself, as I actually read it.
Carry on.
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11-23-2010 04:53 PMThere are several benefits.
First off acceleration.
Another benefit is that this boat appears to be above the minimum weight so it reduced overall weight by about 6 gallons of fuel (2 laps worth).
Finally most will agree that this is a small piece in a big puzzle. I was told this was a neutral balance flywheel. To use this the entire engine would have a different internal balancing methodology than a stock 525. To utilize an neutral/internal balanced flywheel you can be confident the entire engine has been disassembled and rebalanced etc.
Steve
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11-23-2010 05:44 PM
If steve is correct whoever sealed the motors should black listed from racing, period. Their entire sealing program can never again be trusted.
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11-23-2010 10:11 PM
the stock 525 is externally balanced...the flywheel has weights that balance the rotating assembly and the harmonic balancer does the same on the other end...
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