Fountain/Forehand Failure?

[earthwerks]

There were also penalties given out for jumping the start boat, course infractions, and unsportsmen conduct.

[phragle]

what was the unsportsmanlike?

[imco offshore]

There were also penalties given out for jumping the start boat, course infractions, and unsportsmen conduct.

was one of them ,,when the Fountain cut across 3 lanes to run into the Typhoon,??
maybe the joke missed the turn again ,over and over and over ,,

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

If it were me, I would take all of the existing non-P classes and put them in P. Maybe tweek the rules a little to separate twins from singles, but that is it.

The trophy collectors wont like that.

[MANITIE]

Glad to see SBI's Tech caught someone cheating...
I still think since the 2 Orgs do not have all the resorces, to make the rule simple in both Orgs...
If you are caught cheating...the boat cannot race in either orgs no matter who ownes it, along with the racers of the boat..period...
Spec class is just that...
It may be extreme...but who wants to own a race boat that can't be raced...
Get rid of the few bad apples....that can kill a class...and let the sport move forward...

[Slandrew]

Don't worry about it Gordo......there's a new boat coming out that will make the fountain look like it is sitting still.

That whould be nice why don't they dyno all the motors the same and moniter when they install them in stock classes??

[Steve Miklos]

That whould be nice why don't they dyno all the moters the same and moniter when they install them in stock classes??

They are supposed to. Care to elaborate?

Steve

[lucky devil]

There were also penalties given out for jumping the start boat, course infractions, and unsportsmen conduct.

All of which were in the heat of the moment. The SVL Fountain was a premeditated act of cheating.

[Mike A.]

The trophy collectors wont like that.

You are probably right. That being the case, there is no way offshore racing will ever be more than a confusing hobby.

[KMP]

If it were me, I would take all of the existing non-P classes and put them in P. Maybe tweek the rules a little to separate twins from singles, but that is it.

Then, I would create one single engine spec V class and one twin cat class that all existing 36'-40' cats could fit in. I would go to Ilmor and get them involved as an engine provider, and then allow the 525's to be modified up to the Ilmor spec. I might even have some rules laying around that could be used as models to make this a little easier. Talk to the racers for input but do not let them vote on anything!!!!!!

You might have something then, but the current mishmash of classes and rules does not work too well IMO. When Bob Teague cannot get the classes straight while giving radio commentary you know, or at least you should know that there is a major problem.

I agree. Way too many classes.

[Dunbar 104]

From my perspective, 2010 is over and everyone should look toward 2011 right now. There are two real sanctioning bodies. Both groups should adopt the same rules for their common classes. I think the racers should tell anyone trying to put a third sanctioning body together to forget it and work within the existing two groups. The sport does not need another sanctioning body.

If it were me, I would take all of the existing non-P classes and put them in P. Maybe tweek the rules a little to separate twins from singles, but that is it.

Then, I would create one single engine spec V class and one twin cat class that all existing 36'-40' cats could fit in. I would go to Ilmor and get them involved as an engine provider, and then allow the 525's to be modified up to the Ilmor spec. I might even have some rules laying around that could be used as models to make this a little easier. Talk to the racers for input but do not let them vote on anything!!!!!!

Mike I would have to agree on your concept. I never understood why someone would spend the money, and time to race no one? That will have to be up to the org to enforce, it there's not (pick a number) 5 boats your going to have to run p-class.

For the single engine class I would rather see the Illmor detuned just to keep the speed below 100Mph

I also would rather race a twice a weekend, 4 times a year at 80 boat events.

Maybe courses need to be longer, or changed somehow to stop first boat to the corner wins.

Just my thoughts, but I adapt well

[Mike A.]

Mark,

The boats are running close to 100 mph now. Remember too that these boats ran over 100 with A motors and I am sure that Spaitz and Wil can attest to the safety of the boats at those speeds. Plus, for the fans, 100 mph top end sounds sexier. Also, the 525 engines are being hopped up now. With Mercury basically gone, I think the opportunity for future growth is much better with Ilmor, and based on my conversations with them years ago, they probably will help out on tech and site support.

As for the cats, the 750 and 850 boats would still run great with the Ilmor engines. If you could convince them to go to these motors then you could start the season with 10 cats.

So, starting in 2011, you could have two spec classes with 10 boats each and a P series like the LLC days with 30-40 boats of all different sizes, shapes and speeds. Two days of racing, great for fans, sponsors, and local promoters.

I have done this before and would gladly help just to see the sport stay alive and possibly thrive again. If OPA and SBI could get on the same page, imagine how cool 2011 and beyond might be?!

[Dunbar 104]

Modern day A-Class. I am open to ideas cause what we have been doing has run it course. How do you police it?

[imco offshore]

i love the Ilmor sound ,,but i think it would be much easier for ilmor with all their resources to detune to 575 ,,than all the teams to try to build up to 625 ,,plus ,,after 600 you will see a lot of drive issues ,,so then comes ,,let the indy in ,,then let the #6 ..and the exspense goes thru the roof ,,the 525/vortec on an bravo/ IMCO has proved to be very reliable ,,and cost effective,, I like the Ilmor,, but it being a v-10 the torque benefits are much better ,,just like the vortec ,,merc,,,torque parity was 200 rpm
Ilmor 5200 merc 5400 vortec 5600 (or something like this)

[Mike A.]

i love the Ilmor sound ,,but i think it would be much easier for ilmor with all their resources to detune to 575 ,,than all the teams to try to build up to 625 ,,plus ,,after 600 you will see a lot of drive issues ,,so then comes ,,let the indy in ,,then let the #6 ..and the exspense goes thru the roof ,,the 525/vortec on an bravo/ IMCO has proved to be very reliable ,,and cost effective,, I like the Ilmor,, but it being a v-10 the torque benefits are much better ,,just like the vortec ,,merc,,,torque parity was 200 rpm
Ilmor 5200 merc 5400 vortec 5600 (or something like this)

Good points, particularly on the drive issue, but these are details that can be worked out easily. Been there, done that. The key is to create a platform which permits older boats to remain competitive while the class grows. Believe it or not, once the rule makers (not current racers!!!!!!!) get down to business, competitive balance can be maintained and costs can be contained.

At the end of the day Ilmor needs to be a prominent part of the sport going forward IMO. They have a great racing heritage and appear to be dynamic at the moment. Therefore, I would include the Ilmor drive too.

The important thing to remember anytime changes like this are being discussed is to remain calm. It can be done, but as Jimmy said, it may be that the majority of current "racers" really are anything but. Close, exciting competition is not for everyone.

[Phantom1]

Close, exciting competition is not for everyone.

It is for these two for sure.

[Slandrew]

They are supposed to. Care to elaborate?

Steve

Before and after the race@the prop boat can't have hore HP after the raceExcept unlimited racesTry to keep it as fair as possible without increasing expences on the racers!

[Ron P]

Sounds like a propshaft dyno is the ultimate answer.

[MANITIE]

Also with the cats...maybe look at letting in the Ilmor with the Indy drive against the Merc and #6....

[Ratickle]

I chatted with the Ilmor guys in Key West for awhile.

Their 570 hp engine is flywheel rated, not prop like the 525 Merc. It would be a very close platform to the 525 and the Vortec in its present configuration.

They are interested in being included as a legal engine. If the "Parity" rule were in place in the orgs, and they knew what it was, they would be very interested in participating going forward.

Me, being greedy, would like to see the engine rule be such that it was identical for SVL, Cat Light, and SV. Why screw around with a base platform that varies just a little between classes of hulls and number of engines?