$$$ COST FOR AN SVL (total working order )?

[imco offshore]

I think you have the answer...but some may not like it...

Someone outside of the SVL races needs to be in charge of tech, rules and all enforcement...and the racers need to respect the orgs decision.
You would think if OPA is going to take this project on in this spec class..and invest in tech inspectors, the money, rules etc. At least the SVL racers should have to committ to racing in OPA for a number of races..

Gino your right ,,I think Smitty is right on by taking the bull by the horns and setting the rules,, assumeing tech ,ect,,,I also see12 guys cooperateing and one renagade above the law ,,sorry, just looked at the past ,,so the outcome will be the same ,,

good luck to all ,be carefull and safe ,,,

[rchevelle71]

Rick we going to see u in KW its been a while. If you common down look me up.

Probably not Frank, if I do, it may be just a day or 2.

[XtremeRacing]

well if u do make it call me we will meet up for a drink

[rchevelle71]

well if u do make it call me we will meet up for a drink

Will do.

[Wahoo 214]

Gino your right ,,I think Smitty is right on by taking the bull by the horns and setting the rules,, assumeing tech ,ect,,,I also see12 guys cooperateing and one renagade above the law ,,sorry, just looked at the past ,,so the outcome will be the same ,,

good luck to all ,be carefull and safe ,,,

George,

I know you say we "know nothing" on this matter, so please enlighten us all. You see I understand Mike A's view point on wanting competition and maintaining the viability of the older obsolete boats, but your comments seem to always revolve around lack of cooperation, cheating, and skirting the rules.

So far those of us who know nothing have heard that:

1. Doc's Team refused tech. But the boat was not DQ'd and Org Officials have come on here and said it never happened.
2. The Fountain is some how not approved to race SVL. If so why is it racing SVL in SBI, OPA, and OSS?
3. The boat bottom has been change as much as Joan Rivers. How is that different than moving/adding strakes, bussles, swim platforms, buzzi brushes, cutting down decks and hidden ballast tanks?
4. The Fountain Team has hot ECMs. Other SVLs don't even run sealed engines or sealed ECMs.

And that is just what I can remember without going thru all the old posts. So please enlighten us because if your statements have truth, all three of the Orgs have some deeper issues than just SVL which could change Offshore.

The unimformed would like to know

[Mike A.]

George,

I know you say we "know nothing" on this matter, so please enlighten us all. You see I understand Mike A's view point on wanting competition and maintaining the viability of the older obsolete boats, but your comments seem to always revolve around lack of cooperation, cheating, and skirting the rules.

So far those of us who know nothing have heard that:

1. Doc's Team refused tech. But the boat was not DQ'd and Org Officials have come on here and said it never happened.
2. The Fountain is some how not approved to race SVL. If so why is it racing SVL in SBI, OPA, and OSS?
3. The boat bottom has been change as much as Joan Rivers. How is that different than moving/adding strakes, bussles, swim platforms, buzzi brushes, cutting down decks and hidden ballast tanks?
4. The Fountain Team has hot ECMs. Other SVLs don't even run sealed engines or sealed ECMs.

And that is just what I can remember without going thru all the old posts. So please enlighten us because if your statements have truth, all three of the Orgs have some deeper issues than just SVL which could change Offshore.

The unimformed would like to know

Dean,

I never called the SVL's obsolete and they are not obsolete. I said from the first day I heard the Fountain was being dropped into the class, that it should not be allowed to compete because it was not homolgated per OSS and SBI rules. I was correct. The leaders of the sport have always done this, sacrificing the many for the one. And most times, the one turns out to be a complete ingrate, and within a short time, the many are gone and so is the one, leaving the sport as it is today.

OPA has worked great because of the P class only structure. I am personally concerned that by heading into the spec class racing arena you all might be jeopardizing what you have built thus far. Trust me, as someone who was part of building a spec class racing series, it is hard and expensive, and if you are not committed to throwing a-holes out, and slowing fast boats down to maintain balance, it will not work.

As for the current SVL fleet and all the illegal modifications you say they have made, here is what should matter: they are still competitive with one another, but cannot touch the Fountain and will never be able to do so unless drastic steps are taken to slow it down. The sad fact is, however, that it is probably too late. I think the damage is irreparable.

[Wahoo 214]

Mike,

I apoligize. I did not mean to imply that you used the word "obsolete". I also agree with much of what you said. My point was to gain an understanding of all the statements or mis-statements made of this Team, the boat, and Orgs.

As for slowing fast boats down to maintain balance, I believe that is what P class and GPS are for. If the power, weight, drives, props, lenght and general configuration of the boats are the same let them race. The sport does not need another class and the racers shouldn't be asked to delute the purse again.

I didn't say the current SVL fleet's modifications are illegal. I was making a comparision of what has been said of the Fountain vs what has been documented here by SVL racers.

[Ratickle]

As for the current SVL fleet and all the illegal modifications you say they have made, here is what should matter: they are still competitive with one another, but cannot touch the Fountain and will never be able to do so unless drastic steps are taken to slow it down. The sad fact is, however, that it is probably too late. I think the damage is irreparable.

This is the one (Well, maybe another one or two...), area where Mike and I disagree. But, he is getting closer to being correct than I am at this point.

It is not too late if the Orgs and the current boat owners would agree to tweak the rules just a little, enforce the rules they tweak, and tech the boats and have a referee during the races. If they do not get together and agree soon, Mike is absolutely correct.

The main area of disagreement I have is the complexity of the rules. They do not have to be so dang difficult to tech monitor. Keep them simple. Goal, tech a boat in 15 minutes max, MAX......

Boat must come from a mold, be of resin constrution, and every builder must have their hulls for sale to the general public.

Minimum width at transom - 2 people with a tape
Minimum height at transom and highest point on side by windshield
Water pickup through drive only - Visual
Maximum diameter prop, (Approximately 15.625 inches) - Template
Min-Max length - Two guys with a tape
Min weight - Crane scale in and out
Bravo type drive - Visual
Canopy - Visual
Single engine - Visual
Single Throttle Body type Fuel Injection - Visual
Restrictor Plate - Top 3 boats have it removed and checked with a template
Maximum Cu In - Top 3 boats have their engine whistled
Maximum RPM - Inspector has a reader installed on every engine in a locked box - similar to the GPS control box in the C classes.

Who cares about tweaking or modifying the bottoms at that point??? Allow it.

Parity - Win two in a row, added weight, lower RPM, smaller prop, deeper drive. Figure it out and do it. Win another in a row, more parity restrictions added.

If you have had a penalty added, then finish lower than 3rd, the latest restriction is removed.

Boat builders can still brag they have the most weight or deepest drive. ie; best boat design.

New builders come in.
New engine builders come in.
Fans see great side by side racing.
Racers actually race.
etc.

Tweak it, but it should not be as hard as it seems to be.

[Ratickle]

By the way Dean. How do you guys get the parity you currently enjoy in SV in OPA? I know the engines are modified vs sealed Mercs. Smitty said the ECM's were also flashed.

I mean think about it. According to pretty much everyone at this point. Your twin engine 35's to 38's are less than 5 MPH faster than a single engine, stock sealed 525, 30 footer with a stock ECM and a whole lot more weight per HP.

[Wahoo 214]

I don't think Smitty said any of the OPA SV ecms are hot. I think he referred to SVL but I did not look it up.

We have parity because we want it. Each of us would rather finish 3rd with all the boats within 100ft than have one run off. The engine tech is simple. It must look like a stock 525, with standard bore and stroke, cam, heads, headers, ecms and no race fuel. So really you get ported heads and a very close attention to detail. Tyler built 3 of the 4 engine packages and they dyno within 10 hp of each other.

The drives are also easy. Bravo, 2" shorties with 1.3s for smooth and standards with 1.5s for the rough. Props 6 blade 29-31s are all that work.

I wouldn't say that the 30 is less than 5mph slower than the SVs. We ran 110.7 in St Clair and I believe Smitty has seen 112 in TN. But either way, that is a fast SVL.

[Wahoo 214]

Here is Smitty's ecm quote.

"Or since most of the 525 Computers have been hacked anyway. Give the pre 2009 SVL 5650 rpm. All new hulls stay at 5400. New hulls weigh 400 lbs more"

[Ratickle]

Thanks. I took that as he was speaking about your class as a given.

In SVL, they had an exchange program last season, and the rule was in force this year until the "mess". I doubt very seriously any of theirs were flashed up until that point.

I also know SBI has put out notice they will no longer attempt to check ECM's. That will pretty much make it a given that stock ECM's are no longer a rule for next season.

Should hear some higher RPM's from the Cats and Vees using 525's in Key West.

[Ratickle]

I wouldn't say that the 30 is less than 5mph slower than the SVs. We ran 110.7 in St Clair and I believe Smitty has seen 112 in TN. But either way, that is a fast SVL.

Still. 103 in a stock 30' with a single stock 525 with stock ECM vs 112 in a twin 38 with modified 525, (Probably an additional 60 to 75 HP?), is what makes the grumbling come out.

How do you make sure everything is stock except the heads? Does Tyler, or ?, seal them????? And how do you seal and tech the ECM?

And do you review the max allowed RPM with some kind of a sealed unit or on-board telemetry like the GPS does in C classes?

[Ratickle]

Here is Smitty's ecm quote.

"Or since most of the 525 Computers have been hacked anyway. Give the pre 2009 SVL 5650 rpm. All new hulls stay at 5400. New hulls weigh 400 lbs more"

And Smitty may well be correct with the RPM parity equalizer.

[Wahoo 214]

Still. 103 in a stock 30' with a single stock 525 with stock ECM vs 112 in a twin 38 with modified 525, (Probably an additional 60 to 75 HP?), is what makes the grumbling come out.

How do you make sure everything is stock except the heads? Does Tyler, or ?, seal them????? And how do you seal and tech the ECM?

And do you review the max allowed RPM with some kind of a sealed unit or on-board telemetry like the GPS does in C classes?

No seals. We all feel that with the stock block, intake, headers, electronics with pump gas you can't make much more than stock. To check the ECMs we simply will jump in your boat and rev it up. (red neck tech). To check stroke. If you run away from us, we will whistle it. Cam? My opinion is that it is no big deal without more air, fuel, exhaust or RPM.

Also with the ecm, if you don't have anymore RPM you really can't do too much more than advance spark or mess with fuel curve. That doesn't do much without the other stuff mentioned earlier. You can shut of the guardin mode which would help some.

Finally, Tyler doesn't trust Smitty and Smitty doesn't trust Tyler so they keep an eye on each other!

[mdkeywest]

Why not data logging ?

What is your,e opinion after trying this avenue ?

Thanx ( mike )

[mdkeywest]

OK so now that SVL as a class is pretty much over .

HOW MUCH can one be bought for ? ( motor drive ,all of it ? )
Not the wildcard boat ,s price
,just a real number .

[extras]

Do you want to but one or just tell everybody SVL sucks?

[mdkeywest]

Do you want to but one or just tell everybody SVL sucks?

I,ve never said anything close to that .

Pay attn or shut up !

[MANITIE]

OK so now that SVL as a class is pretty much over .

HOW MUCH can one be bought for ? ( motor drive ,all of it ? )
Not the wildcard boat ,s price
,just a real number .

Is anyone even looking to sell there's...
Of course everything is for sale..but I mean..someone who wants out...
I'm sure if one came up for 35 - 40k someone would be interested..
But if someone is looking to sell one for 70k...it may be sitting for a while...
Its a pure race boat..limited cliental..