Major mods to a kevlar hull

[shifter]

We are looking at making some major mods to an existing kevlar hull. I want to cut it length wise and rebond the hull.

Is this possible?

Will the structure be ok since the original bond layup (grain/weave) has been cut?

Thanks in advance,
pat W

[Offshore Ginger]

We are looking at making some major mods to an existing kevlar hull. I want to cut it length wise and rebond the hull.

Is this possible?

Will the structure be ok since the original bond layup (grain/weave) has been cut?

Thanks in advance,
pat W

first off what type of hull and yes anything is possible . just curious are you talking rebondining the deck to the hull ?

[glassdave]

sure its possible but it is a big roll of the dice when you compromise the continuity of the laminate. Being Kevlar makes it a tough one to do, also keep in mind that you will add a fair amount of weight trying to re gain enough structure. What boat are you talking about? Are you trying to narrow a boat up?

[Offshore Ginger]

sure its possible but it is a big roll of the dice when you compromise the continuity of the laminate. Being Kevlar makes it a tough one to do, also keep in mind that you will add a fair amount of weight trying to re gain enough structure. What boat are you talking about? Are you trying to narrow a boat up?

Dave , just curious why do you feel that being kevlar makes it a tough one to do and just because its kevlar why would you have to compromise the laminate ? I D T S........................

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I've cut out stringers to relocate in a kevlar boat. Like Dave said it is tough. Hard to cut. Then when it is time to grind it is tough again. Furr balls every where. I hope your glass man loves you. Doing that job will likely put a dent in your relationship. Good luck.

[Offshore Ginger]

I've cut out stringers to relocate in a kevlar boat. Like Dave said it is tough. Hard to cut. Then when it is time to grind it is tough again. Furr balls every where. I hope your glass man loves you. Doing that job will likely put a dent in your relationship. Good luck.

I hate to say this but i would rather grind on kevlar all day long opposed to #1708 , carbon fiber , S or E glass and yes it is a little harder to cut , but that goes along with the job .

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I hate to say this but i would rather grind on kevlar all day long opposed to #1708 , carbon fiber , S or E glass and yes it is a little harder to cut , but that goes along with the job .

That's good cause it takes all day to grind something that should only take hours. Plus it seems to eat up the tools too.

Sorry Dave and Pat didn't mean to side track.

[glassdave]

Dave , just curious why do you feel that being kevlar makes it a tough one to do and just because its kevlar why would you have to compromise the laminate ? I D T S........................

Art the purpose of this thread is to determine the viability of cutting a Kevlar boat in half and bonding it back together not weather it can be done. Can it? well sure. should it? well thats another thing all together. My personal thought is i am assuming its a race boat and will be run to the highest levels. Scarf ratio for a laminate in that area of the boat would leave you a pretty big swath on the inside and the outside of the boat to deal with. Could be a very huge mess and if it developed problems down the road would render the boat worthless. Just not sure if its the best roll of the dice. At this point we'll need a little more info from Pat and see if we can help him pick a direction.

[glassdave]

Sorry Dave and Pat didn't mean to side track.

Dont mention it Jim, we're all here to learn. All info is welcome and relevant.

[Offshore Ginger]

So is the hull a cat or ....................

[AGITATOR]

hey ginger do you remember what material my skater is made of just curious

[Offshore Ginger]

hey ginger do you remember what material my skater is made of just curious

Its been a long time and i would say that your boat was built using AME # 4000 and most of the fabric being # 1708 . Funny thing my partner and i at the shop who still works at Skater after 18 years were just talking about the transition of building boats from AME to epoxy at Skater and all the learning curves we went thru while makeing the change.

[Offshore Ginger]

God i love seeing Skater avatars lined up back to back .

[shifter]

It is a vee. I do not plan on cutting the boat completely just through the running surface.

We were looking at putting it into a cnc router and cutting it then bonding the changes back in to the hull.

For a test I thought it would be better to do this than cnc-ing a complete hull from scratch.

In the back of my head I keep thinking the patch/bond is going to fail.

If we take this old hull and extensively modify, test it and splash the plug, is this still considered splashing?

I just do not want to get burried into this project and not be able to sell it when we are done because it is considered a copy.

Thanks for the help so far,

pat W

[Offshore Ginger]

I have tried to write something three times and have been cut off at the knees .............................................. ART

[Offshore Ginger]

Shifter - no hull Legally , is considered splashing , unless you make a 10 % change . Shifter consider this as words of past experience and just curious who might be doing your CNC and where is your location ?.

[AGITATOR]

is ame#4000 any good and what type of resin would you repair that with epoxy?????

[Offshore Ginger]

is ame#4000 any good and what type of resin would you repair that with epoxy?????

Hey guy , i mostly use the same resin for big repairs , that Skater uses to build there boats with today and on smaller repairs , dependinng on the size of the repair i would go with West system 105 epoxy resin and 206 slow hardner orrrrrrrrrrr even slower 209 which is extra slow which will give you a lot more pot life and work time . AGITATOR , Douglas Marine uses these products on a every day basis , just my 2 cents .......................... Art

[glassdave]

Artie when did Skater stop using AME4000 and go all epoxy? Or is that what the AME was? cant remember been a while

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

Shifter - no hull Legally , is considered splashing , unless you make a 10 % change . Shifter consider this as words of past experience and just curious who might be doing your CNC and where is your location ?.

Not any more ......


http://www.ibinews.com/ibinews/newsd...21ibinews.html


Bush signs bill that will protect against "hull splashing"

By IBI Magazine

US President George W Bush yesterday signed into law the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act Amendments (VHDPA) of 2008. The VHDPA Amendments correct a technical issue found in the original VHDPA of 1998. According to a statement from NMMA, the amendments now give boat manufacturers increased protection from intellectual property violations that occur through "hull splashing" or duplicating hulls.

"The VHDPA Amendments recognise the great amount of time and money that goes into developing state-of-the-art vessels," said Thom Dammrich, NMMA president, in the statement. "This new and improved VHDPA is a huge step forward in protecting the intellectual property of boat manufacturers."

Dammrich said that NMMA has been working with the US Congress for six years to clarify the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act of 1998. He said that VHDPA Amendments correct technical issues in the original law which, under certain legal interpretations, allowed boatbuilders to splash other builders' original hulls. "They provide boat manufacturers the full protection originally intended in the 1998 VHDPA," said Dammrich.



(17 October 2008)