ILMOR V10 Racers??

[Mike A.]

I will say it a little slower. Your super duppppper series faillllled. And we should listen to Mike A. why?????

Back to the thread at hand. Illmore I wish you all the best in offshore racing. Please do what ever you feel is best for your company to break into our sport and being a house hold name.
MD

No, my series succeeded. When I retired we had lots of boats, TV, GM, race sites and numerous other sponsors, and at least I had the guts to get in the game and put my money where my mouth was. The boycotters' series failed and the best part of that was those guys left you holding the bag. Nice job. 12 boats, you cheated, and now do not even race anymore, right? Really Randy, you should just be quiet. Your penchant for jumping onto sinking ships is legendary. In fact, that was the joke in SIB.

ILMOR jumping in to the sport or hobby of Offshore racing will not make them a household name. Being owned by Roger Penske will do more for them in that regard. And I have actually met with the powers that be at ILMOR in Key West and actually have some perspective on what they want to accomplish and can accomplish when given an opportunity. And giving 15 motors away so people with worn out equipment and no money left so those people can keep mooching off others for their own selfish ends was not in the cards.

And btw, the boycott was the single best thing that ever happened to me business wise, so thank you, thank you very much.

[Mike A.]

Randy

You sound like Pee Wee Herman saying "I know you are but what am I"

You should remember when making such comments Martin was the president of the LLC so go easy there or your current crusade is rather tarnished from the start.
You are not only just ignoring basic facts you are also just plain chasing money.
You loved OSS because you got a good payout. That's great But racers like Billy M. were kicking in heavy so that purse could be met for your team.
That does not appear to bother you but it would me.

The enterprise (OSS) was a total commercial failure and yet you pick at Mike.

Now you want Asif's money. You need to come to realize that racing needs to support itself. there is no good reason for others to pay for us to play. We need to sell product to get checks with any regularity.


Please for once in your life tell us a plan and show us something that will work. rather than just sucking up to whoever sprinkles a few bucks on the sport.


Steve

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Mike, I guess you told me.

You must know it is inevitable that at some point your best days may be overshadowed by something better.

I might not have "skin in the game" but, I am still in the game sweaty uniform and all.

I am glad you enjoyed your joy ride with Steve.. Why don't you fill in for Steve and come race us in St. Clair? That would be notable seat time.

[skaterdave]

Randy

You sound like Pee Wee Herman saying "I know you are but what am I"

You should remember when making such comments Martin was the president of the LLC so go easy there or your current crusade is rather tarnished from the start.
You are not only just ignoring basic facts you are also just plain chasing money.
You loved OSS because you got a good payout. That's great But racers like Billy M. were kicking in heavy so that purse could be met for your team.
That does not appear to bother you but it would me.

The enterprise (OSS) was a total commercial failure and yet you pick at Mike.

Now you want Asif's money. You need to come to realize that racing needs to support itself. there is no good reason for others to pay for us to play. We need to sell product to get checks with any regularity.


Please for once in your life tell us a plan and show us something that will work. rather than just sucking up to whoever sprinkles a few bucks on the sport.


Steve

hea, hea this is about Ilmor!!! and who they need to pay-off to get their motor legal.

back to the negativity side- this is why ALL of offshore is a "hobby sport". my freind's kids race go-carts in a more competive environment with REAL classes, rules, sponsors and REAL racing. Anyone can win with a big fat wallet, but thats not racing. you guys need to wake up. Every year the same ****!!!

ohh well lucky for key lime pina coladas!!!

next year P1 will be gone and we'll all be here talking about how gps racing is the only thing surviving? and as for TV instead of watch the 30 min fountain commercail it's going to a 30 Geico commercail.

yea offshore racing is awesome!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

No, my series succeeded. When I retired we had lots of boats, TV, GM, race sites and numerous other sponsors,

It came and went and you left as it crashed and burned. I was in Orange Beach there was TV but, not anywhere near 80 boats.. No Supercats , No Super, V F2 had dwindled to 5 or 6 boats.. Of course none of that was your fault..

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Ok I am confused!


(tell everyone about the MSD boxes Jimmy)

Since you brought it up..I may need Mike's help to clarify the legal jargon.

The APBA inspector comes to post race inspect the boat I crewed. He steps up, pulls the Rev limiter clips, stuck them in his pocket and walked away. No tag and bag, nothing sealed and signed, no witness, no accountability. In his pocket and walked away. Supposedly they were sent to MSD for analysis. I forget how many weeks passed before any answers were presented. You speak of rules...Make me laugh. I think a court would call anything derived from the events of that day tainted. It was clearly part of a personal vendetta your buddy was taking out on Fountain teams.. Amazingly the grudge persists to this day.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I have another example of personal agendas serving sponsors against Fountain. Sarasota 2001.. Fountain was going to set a new Kilo record in F2 with the new 35 Lightning. So the best I can tell since Formula was a series sponsor. {I forget maybe Cig was too. They had their new Gladiator there.} APBA split the record for F2 into two groups. One for up to 35 and one for the larger boats. Since there was no Fountain racing that season larger then 35.. I guess no one expected last years 38 Fever to show up.

Fountain took both records that day.. I personally thanked Paul A the inspector for the last minute change of the rules.. That APBA/UIM World Speed record plaque is special to me..Thanks Mike.

[skaterdave]

I have another example of personal agendas serving sponsors against Fountain. Sarasota 2001.. Fountain was going to set a new Kilo record in F2 with the new 35 Lightning. So the best I can tell since Formula was a series sponsor. {I forget maybe Cig was too. They had their new Gladiator there.} APBA split the record for F2 into two groups. One for up to 35 and one for the larger boats. Since there was no Fountain racing that season larger then 35.. I guess no one expected last years 38 Fever to show up.

Fountain took both records that day.. I personally thanked Paul A the inspector for the last minute change of the rules.. That APBA/UIM World Speed record plaque is special to me..Thanks Mike.

and this proves what? SBI has followed suit with the same BS. instead of have rules and making certain boats fit into smaller amount of classes, its been heading the opposite way ever since!!!!

So we have some sort of wanna-be racing "show" with very little real racing left.

Plus your arguement doesn't make any sense, in that a boat length rule is atleast easily understood. But how about when there 2 sv classes, 2 extreme v classes so reggie can split the entire fountain fleet into any and all classes they want too merely have a magizine add stating world champ.

If you guys really want to see how racing should work and how people liek Roger Penske do thing turn on TNT a dn watch the nascar race.

you'll notice the following

sponsors, tv, multiple manufactures, real competition, rules that are evenly enforced, tech inspection and thats just a quick observation.

[MANITIE]

While you are laughing, the Illmore motor is sitting on the shelf. I only made a suggestion not a statement or demand. I will stop now and let you all tell us racers that race what we should do. Continue Mike A. Advertisement is not free!!!!! Masterbate away my friend.

You guys have to be joking...

In one sentance you ask ILMOR to give you 15 engines for free..and then in the next sentance you saying why not there only sitting on the shelfs....
and not once have you given anyone Manufacture or racer a reasons to come out and support SVL and or P1 with any rules.. then your own class broke your own rules including you...you cheated in your own class your trying to promote...

We finally get a engine manufacture that wants there product into racing in the US and they are starting to do that and then the see this crapp...

RANDY..You raced in SBI in F1 when I started...and then John C was the problem
Then you raced in APBA LLC in F1 and then you blame his failure on Mike when you guys packed up and took you toys elsewere
Now you race in OSS...and the Org is down to 12 boat and OSS Joins up with SBI..
and you really think Mike A brings nothing to the table...the most TV time you ever had and probalby will every get was because of him....and you don't think he maybe make some good points...you don't have to agree..but not to listen what is being said from experiance is not that great...

YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME...who would want this....

[phragle]

If someone whats to come out with a open cockpit and run and meets critiera, why not open it up to all boats open or closed cockpit..the lid guys would have the advantage so why not let the open guys in to get the boat count up...

OK, my area.... I have watched you guys run several times. I have watched you bounce, fly and get all kinds of sideways. If your going to run open boats and don't put velcro on peoples asses, I am going to have to scoop a few of you out of the water and try and get you breathing again. I am there in case I have to, but I would really much rather watch you race than kiss you and beat on your chest.

[MANITIE]

OK, my area.... I have watched you guys run several times. I have watched you bounce, fly and get all kinds of sideways. If your going to run open boats and don't put velcro on peoples asses, I am going to have to scoop a few of you out of the water and try and get you breathing again. I am there in case I have to, but I would really much rather watch you race than kiss you and beat on your chest.

And we all apreaciate what you do...and we don't want to make your job any harder then it already is...
but these are the speeds we ran in F1 for years in open cockpit boats..
We all have run 75+ in 3 to4 foots seas in F1...
and F2 ran 92+ just saying if your going to make a class grow..have your rules but maybe give the option to some open cockpit boats...a closed canopy is good for one thing...racing...and is very hard to sell without cutting off the lid....maybe open it up for the first couple of years till the class picks up

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I think it would be foolish to run open boats against canopy boats in a class with potential speeds above 90. Do you really think you can keep up with the likes of Miklos and the Fountain in open water unrestrained?

[MANITIE]

Do I think I can..I don't think so...but I know the speeds we ran in F1 in 3 to 5's, I also know we ran 83 to 84 in F1 and we were undercontroll, and had my Activator over 90 and was under controll... also there are 30 foot boats that ran class 4 at 85mph...
But I'm looking at the attitude of just racing...just like you guys said...are you all as fast as the Fountain...no...but you will still go out and race the best you can....and I was looking for the same...
The 32 Activator ran in Class 3 at 95mph...
I want the same thing you want, a big boat count in a class...and if you can get 3 or 4 open boats to join in...it would only help not hurt..its not like we would have any advantage over SVL's,
plus you know most racers are going to sit and watch how this unfolds for the 1st year or so...so why not get as many guys out there you can...its all about the show...and if its OK with me running last...then its just racing,

or even grandfather the first years open cockpit boats...so this way you have more boats till some guys build some new ones...

Look at it this way....I will be the slowest boat in P1/SVL

I'm willing to even run a race in your class as a exibitionist..to show teams that might be interested....pay me no prise money and no points...I have around 80 hp more then you guys but I dont have a extension box on my boat...make me weight whatevery you want...its just racing...worst case..I finish last and you pick up another boat in the class...I would perfer a ruff water race...

[Sean Stinson]

Man you are getting old....The class will grow if you have diversity. If you say to engine manufactures you cannot play then they will race somewhere else. You guys are saying go negative $400,000 and we will let you in.... What is in it for the engine manufacture?

What about the 28 bat boat with the ilmor is it legal to race?

pat W

Dude you misread my post bro....I would love Ilmor in the game as well as you!!!! That is what the statement about the unity was about as well as the big picture....Grow the class and continue to fund it but on the other hand there needs to be some incentives given for people to build new stuff....150k complete package isn't unheard of....but I am sure the whole class isn't going to sideline their boat to build new ones when the ones we have are already pretty competitive!!!!

And what's in it for an engine manufacturer....SALES....that's what it is all about at the end of the day....you know it and I know it!!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

Look I could care less about some of the politics here at the end of the day I want to race.....So bring Ilmore...hell for that matter bring Sterling, Eickert, Zul, Teague, MER Performance and the rest of the noted engine builders in the game.....hell for that matter let anyone in the game that wants to build drives....Ilmor, IMCO, Teague, Arneson, Weismann and the rest.....

And if someone wants to get in the game then offer some incentives....I know free gets everybody's attention.....I don't think anybody will give free anything but maybe they could provide product that could be run and maintained by teams and returned at the end of the year....

So now who wants to play.....

Also here's another note I had a guy that was willing to stroke the big check, 8 digits big, and the only requirement was an unification of orgs....BUT when he saw all this his statement was I can watch my grandkids do this stuff at home for free so why would I pay to watch grown adults do it ......

[MANITIE]

Dude you misread my post bro....I would love Ilmor in the game as well as you!!!! That is what the statement about the unity was about as well as the big picture....Grow the class and continue to fund it but on the other hand there needs to be some incentives given for people to build new stuff....150k complete package isn't unheard of....but I am sure the whole class isn't going to sideline their boat to build new ones when the ones we have are already pretty competitive!!!!

And what's in it for an engine manufacturer....SALES....that's what it is all about at the end of the day....you know it and I know it!!!!!

I agree there should be something in it for the racers...and right now...I'm looking whats out there...
If I am a new SVL racer and build a new SVL....on the engine package what insentive is there for me with Mercury Racing today...
The last I checked was 0...and dose anyone want to post on here what it will cost me to buy one...
Now if you let ILMOR in you can go about it 2 ways...
1. I'm sure IMLOR would do a racers price if you run any of there engines in any class...
2. plus the support you get.
3. Maybe work out a P1 engine program with continency program.

Right now you have nothing with Merc.

I sure don't speak for ILMOR...but if you can get anything from a engine manufacture these days you need to take it...

Merc contingency program did not happen overnight..when I started racing in F1 in 2001...there was nothing for the 500 hp...other then the Merc truck at races and that was retail unless you were a merc dealer..

But like it was said here...this needs to be decided now before the few new boats buy the 525 because thats all thats legal today...

[Sean Stinson]

Thanks for the Fathers Day entertainment however!!!!

[MANITIE]

And this is just a tought...

Whats wrong with the P1 Class:
power to weight ratio
engines have a specific cap on HP
Engines have to be dyno by a independent company at the beginnig at the season and sealed.
Any team can protest a engine at the end of the race, if the engine is legit the protest team pays the bill, if the engine fails the teams pays and forfits all points for the year...or even have them sit out for the rest of the season..
Who wants a teams that is cheating and trying to destroy a class that so much work went into...

Whats wrong with that as a overview and now fine tune it...at least have something to start with...

Has Martin sat down with anyone to discuss any type of rules...or will the rules come from the SVL guys...
Why not have a meeting in ST Clair with any intersed teams to attend and at least have most of the rules in place...and have the interested engine manufactures that want to participate there...before you know it it will be Nov.
Nothing is going to change from now to then other then you will loss time for teams to make plans...

[skaterdave]

this is a just another example of why offshore racing is a HOBBY sport!!!!!!!!!

ALL anyone ever hears is whats in it for US or ME or my class.

No business or sponsor is going to touch anything offshore until they see competitive racing that is ORGANIZED and its going to take a few years once that happens.

You guys really think Roger Penske would even remotely put up with this crap.

you could go race a atv in a better organized race with real racers and without all this BS. And they even have TV!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Gino, I would like to get a good look at your boat. I am not at all familiar with Ilmor's.. Do you have their complete package? Is your boat a 30 or 32?

Maybe Smitty will run us at the same time and you can see how well you can match up. If we are lucky and have closed testing we can rest together. We'll have to wait and see. I suspect we will have a good SVL turn out. Points wise it is still open and no one has a lock in our series. Not yet anyway.. The Fountain runs strong but, I am not convinced he is unbeatable..Time will tell.

Skaterdave have you raced this year?