I would like to talk about new vers old

[DAREDEVIL]

If somebody races a class where , weight, HP ( engine ), length is locked in a rule.
What advantage / dis advantage would be there compared to new or old boats ???

I mean, how could there be an advantage for a lets say 2010 boat with the same length, engine and weight be compared to lets say a 2000 build boat ???

And yes, this has to do with the P-1 USA SVL class. i am just trying to figure this out .
So far we all know :

weight = 4750 #
length = 26-32' CANOPY
engine = sealed Merc 525
drive = Bravo I or comparable w/wo box



So would it really matter if the boat ( was build in 1996 or now in 2010 )
would material ,core..something like that make a difference ????

[Wahoo 214]

You could most likely pick up 1-2mph with a areodynamic deck. Add stability with wings and improved handling with a narrow beam, full length strakes and large steps. Oh that would be a 28 Ocke and they have been banned for being too good.

And that is a 1990's design

[DAREDEVIL]

So the only input is Dean ??

thats funny, i was hoping for answers ??!!!!

Steve M, Mike A, and all the rest..builders and so on !!!!!

What differents would it make ?? What is it that u could build different to get more speed or performance ???

mmhhhhhh....guess nothing ..really

[Steve Miklos]

Scott

I will engage you one last time.
Same power same weight
How fast is a 1997 42 Fountain?
How fast is 2010 42 Fountain?
Any questions?

I know you are listening to Will. He just wants to sell a boat.
When has will beaten Reggie?
Remember he did not tool the 29 Phantom.
What design of his has worked at Reggies level?
You have no background and you make wild assumptions.

Put your money where your mouth is.
Steve

[DAREDEVIL]

Scott

I will engage you one last time.
Same power same weight
How fast is a 1997 42 Fountain?
How fast is 2010 42 Fountain?
Any questions?

I know you are listening to Will. He just wants to sell a boat.
When has will beaten Reggie?
Remember he did not tool the 29 Phantom.
What design of his has worked at Reggies level?
You have no background and you make wild assumptions.

Put your money where your mouth is.
Steve

I would say if the weight would be the same on the 2 boats u mentioned...no difference at all , if they have same power same weight and drives ???

And no need to get harsh...Steve ,,i really would like to know ..not because of fountain , i mean lets say a new EXTREME...what could u possibly change ????

Again, i started this thread because of ( blue quote )
The "RED QUOTE" u can safe !!!!

U know Steve, i kind of think u don't like me ...2 weeks a go when we all had lunch..it did not look that way ?!

[Steve Miklos]

There is most probably over 10 mph difference with 525's and 6 drives. 1997-2010 Fountain
Why was Will's Super V so slow?
Steve

[Sean H]

You can improve anything. Why do spec class kilo records increase and not stay the same?

Even with that being said, a newer boat has the ability to be "quicker" around the course even if its not "faster".

Which would you take; boat A that weighs 4750 with no ballast or boat B that weighs 4250 with no ballast?

Boats evolve; become lighter, more aerodynamic and efficient.

[Sean Stinson]

You know I will put this out there for a comparison.....

Apache was a dominant raceboat back in the 80's and early 90's......How many are racing today?????

Enough Said!!!!!

[earthwerks]

You know I will put this out there for a comparison.....

Apache was a dominant raceboat back in the 80's and early 90's......How many are racing today?????

Enough Said!!!!!

Team Predator?? , Team TKO ???

[Mike A.]

If somebody races a class where , weight, HP ( engine ), length is locked in a rule.
What advantage / dis advantage would be there compared to new or old boats ???

I mean, how could there be an advantage for a lets say 2010 boat with the same length, engine and weight be compared to lets say a 2000 build boat ???

And yes, this has to do with the P-1 USA SVL class. i am just trying to figure this out .
So far we all know :

weight = 4750 #
length = 26-32' CANOPY
engine = sealed Merc 525
drive = Bravo I or comparable w/wo box



So would it really matter if the boat ( was build in 1996 or now in 2010 )
would material ,core..something like that make a difference ????

Scott,

Go to Biloxi this weekend and watch the new Fountain. If that boat is dialed in and there is no sandbagging you will get your answer.

[Wahoo 214]

Team Predator?? , Team TKO ???

TKO is a Stuphen and it is relatively new.

[Wardey]

Team Predator?? , Team TKO ???

TKO is a Sutphen.

[ricochet myk]

I personally would take a lighter boat and have to add ballast/weight, it is easier to fine tune the hull for different conditions. Rather than a heavy boat , then youre either stuck with what you get or youre really heavy and not competitive. my $.02 mike

[MANITIE]

Do you guys really think that this 30 Fountain is going to go out and dominate the class....if it is as fast as being said...they will just sandbag and stay with the pack....I'm sure Doc has read all the talk about possible DQ's...so do you really think he is going to blow the old SVL's away...he will run with the pack be up front and maybe even let a few pass him here and there once the boats dialed in....if this boat is a 90 to 93+ mph boat out of the box...what will it do when its dailed in....
Nobody in there right mind would build a boat for a class and blow away the compitition and make the class fall apart....ooopppss....that has happend before...

Just some input for a spec class....

Want to build a SVL....summit the drawings for the approval from OSS under guide lines...once approved that mold can not be changed for 3 to 5 years....pick a time period...then weather the boat is build in year 1 of the class or year 5 of the class..the boat is exactly the same..old boats dont' become obsolite...and then the boat manufacture still has to get approval from OSS after the 3 or 5 year period for changes...if the boat has changes approved make the changes that the old boats can have the same upgrade or something comparible so they can pick up some speed to match the newer designs.

but if you think a 1998 boat will compete with a 2010 boat with tech. improvemnts over the years.....you in for a wake up call....

If O/L's comes out with a SVL also...do you think it is going to run 88 to 90 mph...or do you think its going to be 92+....then you will have sandbaging...adn then whats the differance in GPS racing and spec racing with sandbagers.....

Good luck guys...you have a great class...hope you all can come to a cure for newer tech.

[DAREDEVIL]

I don't think that most of u understood my question ( sorry for my lack of english )

SAME WEIGHT, SAME DRIVES, SAME ENGINE , SAME LENGTH ( or with in the rules )

Not #6 fountains !!!!!!!


I mean if its all build according to the same specs ...how little would de advantage of step placement or rolled corners and such really be ...+/-1 MPH ????

Come on ...i am not saying ballast or weight differences of 500 #, i am saying THE SAME !!!!!!

[DAREDEVIL]

You know I will put this out there for a comparison.....

Apache was a dominant raceboat back in the 80's and early 90's......How many are racing today?????

Enough Said!!!!!

Ok,,u did not read my question !!!!!!

U take your APACHE and u build a new Fountain, the same weight, same engine, and same drives ...WHO DO U THINK IS GOING TO WIN ????

[DAREDEVIL]

Scott,

Go to Biloxi this weekend and watch the new Fountain. If that boat is dialed in and there is no sandbagging you will get your answer.

I had to cancel my room, lost 25 bucks ..chit..but i got other things i really need to get done this week end...so i cant be there and i already had a fight with my wife because of it

But,,she is right..i got to get this done !

Their always right, and i hate it !

[Sean H]

which would you rather have a boat that weighs 4750 with no ballast or a boat that weighs 4750 that includes 500 lbs of movable ballast? Thats one thing a newer boat can offer. You can also optimize propshaft heights and bottom finishes for newer tech props, you can incorporate much better aerodynamics into the deck (and hull). Even if all that only offers 1 or 2 MPH of top speed, what if it gives you 1 second a lap, or even a half a second a lap? Better handling and acceleration will get you more lap time than 1 or 2 mph.


There is a reason you see old spec boats just sit around or go bracket racing. They have been made moot by newer hulls.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

You know some times new boats just don't work well. You never can tell.

Kind of like propellers it is hard to tell by just looking.

Yea DD,, Gitter done.

[DAREDEVIL]

which would you rather have a boat that weighs 4750 with no ballast or a boat that weighs 4750 that includes 500 lbs of movable ballast? Thats one thing a newer boat can offer. You can also optimize propshaft heights and bottom finishes for newer tech props, you can incorporate much better aerodynamics into the deck (and hull). Even if all that only offers 1 or 2 MPH of top speed, what if it gives you 1 second a lap, or even a half a second a lap? Better handling and acceleration will get you more lap time than 1 or 2 mph.


There is a reason you see old spec boats just sit around or go bracket racing. They have been made moot by newer hulls.

Maybe i read the old rules wrong..then u would kind of be right....but the way i was reading it it said..the 4750 # would be weight after the race dry with all ballast removed ?! NO ?

And yes, bottom changes will do some...but who of the NOW svl's have the original bottom shape ...would they still fit in the mold ???

I really don't think so ??? but hey ..maybe !

So now we kind of summed it down to 1/2 MPH..the fastest SVL now is what right at 94/95 and the new ones would be where 96 ?? COME ON ?!