I can't believe what I'm watching

[phragle]

Bullsh!t. So your guy lies us into a war and you try and make a negative point about the fact we haven't left yet?

stupid chit, Ted, and you know it- the schedule for the withdrawal is common knowledge.

Your disingenuous crap gets old.

Civility........ take it easy Jay. These are issues we are all passionate about and we all have our own ideas and opinions. Those ideas and opinions are what we are discussing.

[Ted]

Bullsh!t. So your guy lies us into a war and you try and make a negative point about the fact we haven't left yet?

stupid chit, Ted, and you know it- the schedule for the withdrawal is common knowledge.

Your disingenuous crap gets old.

Damn I do know how to strike a nerve huh Jay? You backed a liar and a big fake, with no experience and nothing but a bunch of questionable thugs around him. Deal with it, Frum is wrong, and the sheeple are a wee bit pi$$ed right now. Skanky Nan can play all the tricks she wants, her reign is drawing to a close. The wasteland awaits...

[catastrophe]

We have a perfect example of socialist medicine to our north and we don't want it. I mean if your own politicos have to come here for medical care, what does that say? And frankly we have very few, if any, people dying in the streets because of our system, heck, even the woman that Obama tried to use as an example turns out to be eligible for assistance and is not going to lose her home or go without treatment.

Cuda would enjoy it about now.

And dont get the law mixed up with the structure of delivering the product.

[LaughingCat]

Damn I do know how to strike a nerve huh Jay? You backed a liar and a big fake, with no experience and nothing but a bunch of questionable thugs around him. Deal with it, Frum is wrong, and the sheeple are a wee bit pi$$ed right now. Skanky Nan can play all the tricks she wants, her reign is drawing to a close. The wasteland awaits...

Hi Ted,

You may be totally correct. That's what we have elections for. Dems have squandered momentum before, they can do it again. It's a long time until November. They better hope the public digests this well and the economy turns around AND jobs are created.

[LaughingCat]

Cuda would enjoy it about now.

This night, he would be so worked up, he'd eat everyone in the room, Democrats, Republicans, pages and porters. He'd be Demolition Man.

[03darkshadow]

Everyone is so focused on fighting the little battle arguments (cost of plan provisions, Barney Frank is a ***got, Obama is a N----r, Nazi's takig over, Constitutionality), we didn't notice the Dems using a bigger strategy to push this through and completely undermine the Republicans chances in November. People will see the main points, not the cost. People will see no cancelation, insurance pools, no pre-existing conditions.

On the campaign trail, you really think Republicans can fight to put the donut hole back in medicare prescriptions costs, drop coverage for people in their 20s on their parent's plan, reinstall pre-existing conditions, reinstall insurance companiies ability to drop you when you get sick. Let's be realistic. We may not like what the bill has or costs, but it's a political masterpiece for Democratic political longevity. It encopasses alot of Reagan's and Newt's ideas.

If David Frum (he was W.'s economic speech writer) still have any credibility in this crowd, everyone should be much more worried about the future and stop thinking the country will vote R's back into majority power in both the House and Senate.

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

940 billion over 10 years where are we going to get that??



there are positives to this bill, the way our health care is now does need changed. but it shouldn't be on our shoulders to pay for people who are unwilling to work and think they're entitled to things. the ridiculous lawsuits causing doctors insurance to go up needs to change. actually our whole judicial system needs an overhaul but thats for another day. and as for people getting dropped when they get sick, that shouldn't happen, you pay in and all of a sudden you get sick, thats not necessarily your fault.

[LotoSteve]

Yep, there was no lying at all in the runup to the invasion- surely that's why all those folks voted the way they did.

No where near as bad, right? Remind me again why 5,000 Americans are now dead.

Stop the hijacking please. Start your own thread if you want to talk about the war.

[BUIZILLA]

Hi Ted,

You may be totally correct. That's what we have elections for. Dems have squandered momentum before, they can do it again. It's a long time until November. They better hope the public digests this well and the economy turns around AND jobs are created.

word..

[Ted]

why don't you post Oby's ORIGINAL CAMPAIGN SCHEDULE for us there JayBaby...

then we'll all see the current schedule and see who's the BS artist

come on Jay... find them BOTH and post em

I dare ya

Wait, let me!


Obama Outlines His Troop Pullout Plan
The Associated Press | September 12, 2007

By MIKE GLOVER

CLINTON, Iowa -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is calling for the immediate withdrawal of all U.S. combat brigades from Iraq, with the pullout being completed by the end of next year.

"Let me be clear: There is no military solution in Iraq and there never was," Obama was expected to say in a speech Wednesday at Ashford University.

"The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops. Not in six months or one year _ now," the Illinois senator was to say.

Obama's ardent opposition to the war has been a central theme of his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, and he has used it to distinguish himself from leading rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y. She voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq; Obama was not yet a senator.

Obama was trying to further sharpen that distinction Wednesday, spelling out his views on what the U.S. should do next.

He introduced legislation last January calling for withdrawal to start on May 1 and for all combat brigades to be pulled out by March 31, 2008.





CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. — President Barack Obama announced Friday that he'll withdraw U.S. combat troops from Iraq by Aug. 31, 2010, but his plan to leave as many as 50,000 U.S. troops there through 2011 made many Democrats in Congress angry, while Republicans cheered.

It was an ironic reception for a new commander-in-chief whose presidential campaign was built initially on his early opposition to the Iraq war and his promise to end it if elected.

Obama traveled to Camp Lejeune to announce his Iraq policy — which had leaked several days earlier — to a gym full of 2,700 Marines in camouflage uniforms. Some 8,000 Marines at the base near Jacksonville, N.C., will ship out this spring to Afghanistan, where Obama is escalating the U.S. presence.

[LaughingCat]

Hi Shadow,

I'm really no expert on this bill. BUt the non-partisan CBO scored it a reduction of debt over 10 years of $1.2 trillion. So if the bill spends $940 billion over 10 years, then without it, the current health care format spends $2.14 trillion.

[LotoSteve]

They voted that way because they believed the garbage info that was given them about conditions there.

The one thing I dont get is the unnatural resistence to being somewhat socialistic.
The USA is the first country to reach out and help others that are in need or are the first nation to go to the aid of others that need military support.
So I dont get the negative attitude for helping your own countrymen that cannot help themselves.
One thing I see that is a positive in all this, is that Joe Public is much more aware and participating in the process of running your country.
That alone will change things in the future.

The part that is enjoyable is the fact this very devisive topic can be discussed on SOS with civility and respect as opposed to the way it cant be discussed on other sites because of the lack of law and order....and mutual respect.

The USA is the most generous nation on the planet when it comes to helping those that truly cannot help themselves. However the people born in this country have no excuse for not being able to help themselves. Compared to lots of other country's, the USA is the Garden of Eden when it comes to opportunity. Frankly I'm sick and tired of hearing about all the poor in this country. Most are just lazy.

[03darkshadow]

the way our health care is now, we would spend more then with the bill? im lost, sorry.



btw, is anyone watching whats going on? the one guy asked the chair to let people stand up and make public their vote. he doesn't want that to happen

[catastrophe]

The USA is the most generous nation on the planet when it comes to helping those that truly cannot help themselves. However the people born in this country have no excuse for not being able to help themselves. Compared to lots of other country's, the USA is the Garden of Eden when it comes to opportunity. Frankly I'm sick and tired of hearing about all the poor in this country. Most are just lazy.

"Frankly I'm sick and tired of hearing about all the poor in this country. Most are just lazy."

Nice

[RedDog382]

People will see the main points, not the cost. People will see no cancelation, insurance pools, no pre-existing conditions.

The cost of this will be unsustainable. If you think the costs of insurance premiums are skyrocketing now, just wait until this goes into effect. When the insurance companies are on the verge of collapse, then the govenrment (by design) will HAVE to take them over. Then we will ALL be fucxed ...

[LotoSteve]

"Frankly I'm sick and tired of hearing about all the poor in this country. Most are just lazy."

Nice

Explain to me why they are poor. Could it be they chose to drop out of school or they chose to use drugs or they chose to to buy $200 basketball shoes instead of buying groceries. If someone really wants to succeed in this country there are tons of opportunities for them to take advantage of. More so if they are a minority.

Of course there are people born with disabilities whether it be physical or mental that have special needs and deserve help. I have no problem giving them whatever they need to live comfortably but I have no sympathy for people who expect the rest of us to pay their way.

[Donskihp]

Well said LotoSteve!

[Tommy Gun]

bullsh!t. So your guy lies us into a war and you try and make a negative point about the fact we haven't left yet?

Stupid chit, ted, and you know it- the schedule for the withdrawal is common knowledge.

Your disingenuous crap gets old.

3000 dead from the WTC attack is no lie. Nor was the repeated games and UN sanction defiance by Hussien.

Regardless it doesn't have much to do with the subject bill. Because you say Bush lied it justifies the BS lies, corruption and arrogance of the Obama administration? There certainley is no question about whether or not that is true. This bill pushes this country closer to insolvency; Medicare and Social Security are in trouble and they choose to ignore that for this. Insanity.

[RedDog382]

Hi Shadow,

I'm really no expert on this bill. BUt the non-partisan CBO scored it a reduction of debt over 10 years of $1.2 trillion. So if the bill spends $940 billion over 10 years, then without it, the current health care format spends $2.14 trillion.

Not counting "the doctor fix". The federal government already pays only about 18% of billing to physicians, and they intend to cut that even more. The private insurance companies started doing the same thing when they saw what the government was getting away with.

I can't walk into a hardware store, pick up a $100 item, toss $18 on the counter and walk out. Good luck finding a good doc to save your backside in the years to come!

What a lot of people don't realize is the we (the ER docs) already take care of A LOT of people for FREE without ANY reimbursement now because the government says we have to.

[03darkshadow]

3000 dead from the wtc attack is no lie.

funny you mention that, a guy i work with is all into this infowars.com thing. and basically they believe that the gov't did 9-11.






and back to the health bill, how come they didnt say "my name is ____ i vote yes (or no) to this bill." the one republican wanted that. but i guess now its pretty obvious who voted for who. im not happy my taxes are going up.

[LaughingCat]

Tommy,

You are right. That is no lie. But it was Saudi Arabia that hit us, not Saddam. Completely documented and proven. Bringing up 9/11 as justification for the IRaq war is just like using Pearl Harbor to justify invading Mexico. 9/11 was a terrible tragedy and we squandered the entire global goodwill we immediately inherited becasue we invaded the wrong country.

Sorry for the temporary hi-jack.