Will PRA move the 1000 Islands Poker Run out of Kingston?

[Joe549]

http://www.kingstonelectors.ca/forum...ead.php?t=2842


The ignorance, arrogance and sheer stupidity of some of the sheeple in this city is just mind blowing..

[Tank]

It's as with most politics...It's the voice of a few "squeaky wheels" that gets the grease. Funny that the group that voices it's opinion and started the effort against the poker run is asking for a 10k extra fee that they recommend go to them for "planting new trees etc"...Riiiiiiight! So it's ok to "pollute the environment", as long as you pay them?

Typical. Sounds to me like there are those that don't like the loud power boaters and revelry of the crowds in their small town and have found a way to get them to move, or at least benefit by it.

I'm sure it all boils down to personal agenda.

Mr. Hemberger,

Something you may not understand is what a poker run is all about and how frequent they are run. Being moved from your city is not going to stop this run, it will only prove to benefit a neighboring city.

This poker run is known across the nation and attended by many from coast to coast. It has been voted a top ten poker run in the nation by Powerboat Magazine several times. With stories and write-ups in a nationally sold magazine it only goes to add up to free advertising for your city.

You ask if the money GLH talked about spending in a weekend is realistic. In short, absolutely 100% yes. Someone else said this is on the high side, I would say, not by much.

These poker runners have boats that can (and do often) run into the million dollar mark. You may want to relay the info that throwing down a thousand or two thousand dollar bar tab in one of your local establishments in one sitting is not un-common. Dinner into the thousands of dollars for one poker runner’s party is quite common. And they're there for several days.

There have been many studies done to show the economic growth that poker runs bring into a city. An example would be the Key West Poker run. It was shown that the FPC bring in somewhere in the 5 million range for the city during the November poker run. The same goes for the Lake Havasu (Az.) poker run. Lakeracerllc (the promoter) has even been in works with the city to help pay for the poker run because the poker run again, brings in somewhere in the 5 million dollar range to the cities business'

I would implore you to do your very best to keep this poker run in your city. Because if it's not in yours, it'll be in your neighboring city.

[Bobthebuilder]

http://www.kingstonelectors.ca/forum...ead.php?t=2842


The ignorance, arrogance and sheer stupidity of some of the sheeple in this city is just mind blowing..

Wow. Well said. I can't believe I just spent a half hour reading through all the drivel that is coming from some of these people. Some of the statements are ill informed and shocking. I have participated in the 1,000 Islands poker run every year for the last 10 years, the last 5 out of Kingston. I have spoken to many residents on the docks who look forward to the boats returning each year. I cannot believe that the silent majority would want to see the event leave the city. I believe a small minority of people are seizing the agenda here.
Thank you for standing up for the Poker Run. It is appreciated.

Bob

[SinkinFastR]

I hope these peoples Prius's slam right into a tree.

[harhem]

This whole subject will come down to money like everything else in life.

Arguably the Green Movement has its legitimate points. But after a while someone has to say enough is enough.

Hearing from the boating industry will fall on deaf ears.

City council will get most of its input from 2 sources. The Business Improvement Area members and The Kingston Chamber of Commerce.

They have the most to lose and they are all current taxpayers.

The PR is there 1.5 days a year.
The guy with the 46 Sea Ray and all his friends is moored there 5 months a year.
The route along the river that we traverse has mansions built on it that are built on solid rock. The inoperative or non existent septic systems effect the quality of that stretch of water multi times more than our go fast boats do.

With all this being said I'm curious re your request to have some letter writer mention that you are running for council and want to be known as fighting for the PR.

Seems self serving to me.

I have been for keeping this Poker Run long before i registered as a user on this board. I know it is an important economic for Kingston. (Oct 21st is the first mention on my site) I am just sick and tired of council blowing opportunrties. You know about the casino up rive at Gan. Kingston was first approached. They did not want it. Problem is we need too prove that the Poker Run is good for Kingston. Bottom line. You want to come to Kingston. You will need a new council. If you think that is self serving. what do you suggest i do

[Tom A.]

Mr. Hemberger,
I know I am just repeating what has already been said here but wanted to emphasize the overall impact to Kingston. I am from NJ and, except for last year, have been to the 1000 Islands Poker Run 5 times. It is one of my favorite areas in the world to boat. If it weren't for a previous commitment last year I would have been there too. My friends and I trailer up from NJ every year for this event. We bring anywhere from 8 to 10 boats just from NJ! I can vouch for the fact that each boat (figure 4 people to a boat) spends at least $1000 - $1500 per day and we usually make a 5 day weekend out of it. That's anywhere from $40,000 to $75,000 just from the "Jersey Crew"!
I have met so many wonderful people up there and the locals have gone out of their way to cater to us and also help us whenever we needed a hand. I hope the majority of locals speak up and do the right thing!

[redhotsommer]

I feel bad for you having to deal with people like Mr. 3aW6, whom I quote right here:

I have recently decided to become a vegetarian. This decision is driven by the fact that the meat industry is not only inhumane, but that it produces more greenhouse gas emissions than the entire oil/gas industry. This is a sustainable choice that I made for the benefit of others. My decision wasn't driven by a dislike of meat, up until a point last year I ate meat on a daily basis. I just finally came to a point where I realized just how unsustainable meat is. I understood I could easily live without eating meat, so I do. It was as simple as that"

Perhaps one action you might consider is politely pointing out that scientific studies have shown that vegetarians produce considerably more methane than those of us that eat meat. If that doesn't cause him concern, at least it will concern anyone sharing a room with him.

[pullmytrigger]

Ok....at this point were still just sitting around b*tching.....
Can someone get and post the email address of the Kingston Town Council and the Kingston Chamber of Commerce?.....Id be willing to send an email to both of them expaining I have a "powerboat" and were thinking of coming to the Kingston area this summer for a boating holiday but have heard through the "boating grapevine" that "powerboats" are "officially unwelcome" by the City of Kingston and ask if thats true.....and if so you'll be sure and skip Kingston as a destination point......maybe a few hundred letters of this type will raise some eyebrows....

[pullmytrigger]

Maybe Bill Taylor with all his boating publications and Powerboat Magazine for that matter needs to get on board and splash across the magazine in big letters "Powerboats not welcome in Kingston!!"......we need to turn this into a much larger "Powerboat" issue and not just a "Poker Runner" issue because as we all know there is no real difference from an environmental viewpoint.....

[harhem]

Ok....at this point were still just sitting around b*tching.....
Can someone get and post the email address of the Kingston Town Council and the Kingston Chamber of Commerce?.....Id be willing to send an email to both of them expaining I have a "powerboat" and were thinking of coming to the Kingston area this summer for a boating holiday but have heard through the "boating grapevine" that "powerboats" are "officially unwelcome" by the City of Kingston and ask if thats true.....and if so you'll be sure and skip Kingston as a destination point......maybe a few hundred letters of this type will raise some eyebrows....

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/cityhal...l/councillors/

[Tank]

If someone could post a link to the Kingston city counsil email, I'm sure we could flood them
with emails in protest. I'd be willing to send an email out.

[pullmytrigger]

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/cityhal...l/councillors/

Thank you very much!
If we can erase the "Poker Runner" aspect of this and put it all under "Powerboats" then we can get the Cruiser guys and all their publications on board (Boating magazine, Trailer boats etc) we can also call into question the City's fleet of Private and City owned tour boats, tour buses....everything

we need to start doing what they do....."seriously"

[catastrophe]

I have been for keeping this Poker Run long before i registered as a user on this board. I know it is an important economic for Kingston. (Oct 21st is the first mention on my site) I am just sick and tired of council blowing opportunrties. You know about the casino up rive at Gan. Kingston was first approached. They did not want it. Problem is we need too prove that the Poker Run is good for Kingston. Bottom line. You want to come to Kingston. You will need a new council. If you think that is self serving. what do you suggest i do

If your not embarrassed to be a politician, thats fine by me.

This comes down to money like everything else does.
Those with a financial interest, namely the commercial enterprises in Kingston will sort it out. Thats why there is a chamber of Commerce there.

We have to remember something, this Poker Run is our hobby, but it happens to be Mr. Taylors business.
So if a bunch of half baked ignorant letters get sent to the wrong people you are hurting the guy that puts up the risk money and effort to put this event on.( I am not referring to you personally.)

I've seen these topics turn to stupid unorganized crap in the past and thats whats not needed.

I read through the drivel on the Kingston site. Its all BS tree hugging garbage.

If Kingston doesnt want it , someone else will.

Net result....if you want to be a politician as a trade off for missing 1.5 days of boating at a PR , ??????????????
If you want to be a politician for other reasons... then have a nice day.

In answer to what I would have you do?

I would poll the businesses in town to establish their position, because if they arent going to fight, dont waste your breath.

And I havent read anywhere where the current councillers sit on this subject.
For all we on this site know, is that they are all 100% on the side of the PR.

Is there a suggestion that they arent?

No letter from performances boaters will pull an ounce of weight in my humble opinion.

Just some personal ramblings

With Respect

[harhem]

If there are letters sent, please be respectful

[pullmytrigger]

I'll be sending letters to both....the C of C WILL pay attention and the Council even if falling on deaf ears will have to concede in a debate at council that they did receive the letters.....

[pullmytrigger]

We should never acknowledge the term "Poker Runner" when speaking to these people......acknowledging that term puts us in a MUCH smaller, more easily defeatable sub group than a "Powerboater"....when pressed we could acknowledge a "Brightly Coloured Powerboat"

You know if the Cruiser guys are smart they'll get on board with us and the whole "powerboater" thing because if we are defeated the Cruiser guys are next......

[pullmytrigger]

You know I don't really have a dog in this fight as my boat is really too small for the run and its too expensive but I have boated a quite a bit in the area and know that Kingston is a vastly superior venue to host the run than Gananoque and its worth some sort of a fight.....its your signature event right? your Indy 500.....and what are you going to do when they show up in Gananoque if victorious in Kingston and try and get you booted from there?......you know their going to.....dont mean to sound harsh but how difficult of a victory was it when we as a group didnt even show up?
These people are highly organized and if they are successful in Kingston that news will be all over their mail outs and websites everywhere.
Us power boaters better get some organisation and start winning some battles in this war that so many of us don't even know we're in.....D

[Joe549]

This women actually compares performance boats to cigarettes..... http://www.emckingston.ca/20090806/N...igarette+boats

Kingston is notorious for "screwing up a good thing". We had the chance of having the casino here when they were looking for a place to build, however that was considered "the devil's playground" and run out of town only to be built 15 minutes down the highway in Gananoque. Kingston then had the gall to approach Gananoque and the Casino claiming that they should be receiving a portion of the payouts to the surrounding local communities that the casino does..... they were politely told where to go....

[Matt Trulio]

All,

I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the United States it is illegal to discriminate against a recreational vessel on a federally funded waterway (with exceptions such as Marine Sanctuaries and so on). This was exactly the problem the Bluewater Network faced when that group and a others were trying to get personal watercraft banned on Lake Tahoe, which receives federal funding.

The personal watercraft manufacturers correctly pointed out that, at the time, there were plenty of outboard-powered boats that had the same or higher emission levels as PWC. To simply ban them would be doing so because they were PWC. So the powers-that-be such had to base their legislation and restrictions on engine emissions rather than the type of vessel.

Four-stroke personal watercraft are now allowed on Lake Tahoe. Direct fuel-injection two-strokes were allowed there, although I don't know if they still are.

Could a similar tactic be taken in Kingston? The city council doesn't seem to be basing its proposed discriminatory tax on anything other than the classification of boat. The carbon foot print tax does not wash because it is not applied evenly across the board to all boats with internal combustion engines. If all powerboats owners had to pay a carbon footprint tax based on emissions, than owners would higher-emission engines likely would have to pay higher taxes.

The word discriminate was brought up by Mark Braithewaite in the article in the first post of this thread, and proving discrimination I would guess that is the only way performance-boat enthusiasts will win in Kingston.

In most parts of the world, high-performance boats represent a fraction of the boats on any given waterway. So if we're talking about creating taxes based on carbon footprint, I would say lawmakers would have to start with bigger fish such as Sea Ray and Bayliner runabouts and all kinds of fishing boats.

How does taxation work in Canada? I don't know.

But what I think I do know, or at least the path I would try to follow, would be that such a tax is purely discriminatory. And unfortunately, I think performance boaters will have to band together and get legal for anything to happen.

Without question, the opposition is organized. Anything less on the performance-boat side will fail.

[bluellama]

Matt, the thing Kingston needs to realize is that Kingston needs the 1000 PR a whole lot more than the 1000 PR needs Kingston. It worked in Gananoque, and if they could figure the docking out it would work really well in Brockville.
The 1000 Islands Poker Run will take place in the 1000 Islands this year. Whether or not Kingston is involved is up to them.