News: Powerboat P1 strengthens presence in North America

[Sean H]

i just wonder how P1 plans to bring these guys all together and bring old the sideliners and new racers?

$$$

[Ratickle]

$$$

That should work.....

[skaterdave]

I think there is a difference between being competitive, (having a chance to win), and having no chance. The identical boats with Bravo's and 6's are competitive as long as only the one gear ratio is allowed in the 6 boats. (This is from everything I've asked current racers about). So, with weight and gear ratio restrictions boats can be in the same class. But, with the gear ratio changes allowed in SV on the 6 boats, the Bravo boats had no chance.

Is this wrong information?

maybe in calm water a bravo would have a chance but in rough forget about.

i base this off of broken bravos i've see first hand vs seeing only two #6s fail and they where on cats.

the #6 skeg is much bigger and helps in turning

#6 gimble can handle alot more stress, especially of the heavier twin vees, allowing less concerns when turning. seen alot of bravo vees break a gimble when they flat spin. where's wahoo ?

you could basically beat the hell out of a six in rough compared to a bravo so reliability would be a big concern

[Ratickle]

maybe in calm water a bravo would have a chance but in rough forget about.

i base this off of broken bravos i've see first hand vs seeing only two #6s fail and they where on cats.

the #6 skeg is much bigger and helps in turning

#6 gimble can handle alot more stress, especially of the heavier twin vees, allowing less concerns when turning. seen alot of bravo vees break a gimble when they flat spin. where's wahoo ?

you could basically beat the hell out of a six in rough compared to a bravo so reliability would be a big concern

True in the rough, but so many of our races are not in what I would consider rough.

What I was saying, from what I've investigated, is a 6 with the 1.5 (?) ratio has almost no advantage over an identical Bravo boat beause they accelerate slower, although they can corner harder. So, without spinning or breaking, the boats are basically equal.

Dean's still on a learning curve coming from a cat, but when he finishes, he finishes strong.

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

you would think if P1 wanted to make a statement that they would have just showed up in KW.

Powerboat P1 owner was in Key West. I was at private social meeting with him on Thursday night along with some of the P1 Racers which did run their Vees in Key West. Unfortunately they had some bad luck on the course...

I look forward to seeing them again at the Maimi Boat Show when they present OUTERLIMITS an Award...

[skaterdave]

I think there is a difference between being competitive, (having a chance to win), and having no chance. The identical boats with Bravo's and 6's are competitive as long as only the one gear ratio is allowed in the 6 boats. (This is from everything I've asked current racers about). So, with weight and gear ratio restrictions boats can be in the same class. But, with the gear ratio changes allowed in SV on the 6 boats, the Bravo boats had no chance.

Is this wrong information?

from what i've heard the newer fountains like miccusukee, and fountain worldwide (which ever one had #6s) were running in the teens with 525 package. older fountains with bravo's were in the low 100's. partly new boat, partly #6.

saying that the six can't change gear would be the same as limiting them on prop size.

sure you can slow them down to run the same top speed but this ain't drag racing so how you help the bravo in the turns?

[Ratickle]

from what i've heard the newer fountains like miccusukee, and fountain worldwide (which ever one had #6s) were running in the teens with 525 package. older fountains with bravo's were in the low 100's. partly new boat, partly #6.

saying that the six can't change gear would be the same as limiting them on prop size.

sure you can slow them down to run the same top speed but this ain't drag racing so how you help the bravo in the turns?

From everything I've gathered, it was the acceleration out of the corners which was the big limiting factor on the 6's with the taller ratio, not prop. Bravo's could out-accelerate at the start and out of the corners, 6's had higher top speed. Even up driver/throttleman race.

But you'd really need to ask the guys who used to race them against each other before the new gear ratios came out.

[phragle]

ok..somebody please explain to me, just how this is going to work ('im not saying it wont, just trying to understand) an org. (powerboat p1) is going to come here ( a place with more orgs and classes than boats) and spend a gazillion dollars adding another org and even more classes to get racers to play. And it has people so excited they want to change the names of their classes... some people seem to be on their knees with their arms outstretched singing hallaluya.... Maybe Im wrong (I hope so) but whats in it for powerboat p-1 besides hemmoraghhing cash? I don't know boat racing that well thus I am asking for an explination, but usually when something is so wildly heralded as the second comming shows up, it's usually followed by the anti-christ and great discontent as unreal expectations are not met.

[F1-00 Racing]

from what i've heard the newer fountains like miccusukee, and fountain worldwide (which ever one had #6s) were running in the teens with 525 package. older fountains with bravo's were in the low 100's. partly new boat, partly #6.

saying that the six can't change gear would be the same as limiting them on prop size.

sure you can slow them down to run the same top speed but this ain't drag racing so how you help the bravo in the turns?

Not entering the fray, but just a heads up, the kilo record with a 38/525/bravo pkg is 112 and change(Invensys, now Wazzup Racing) and the kilo with the 40/525/6 pkg is 115.000(Micosukkee) with the rule of thumb being kilos are 10 mph faster than avg race speed that puts them @ 102 and 105 respectively.

[Ratickle]

ok..somebody please explain to me, just how this is going to work ('im not saying it wont, just trying to understand) an org. (powerboat p1) is going to come here ( a place with more orgs and classes than boats) and spend a gazillion dollars adding another org and even more classes to get racers to play. And it has people so excited they want to change the names of their classes... some people seem to be on their knees with their arms outstretched singing hallaluya.... Maybe Im wrong (I hope so) but whats in it for powerboat p-1 besides hemmoraghhing cash? I don't know boat racing that well thus I am asking for an explination, but usually when something is so wildly heralded as the second comming shows up, it's usually followed by the anti-christ and great discontent as unreal expectations are not met.

One thing I will not do is question this negatively. Until Martin comes out with the full package, which seems to be a year away, I'm going with the knowledge that Martin usually knows what he's doing because he's been doing it for a long time from every aspect of the sport. There are not many others who can make that claim.

[phragle]

I am not trying to be negative, Im trying to understand how it will work

[skaterdave]

i only thing i can say about bravo vs 6 is when catlite allowed the 6 everyone switched. atleast those that ran up front. yea i know its a cat but look what happened with p-2 in opa. appearently those guys didn't share your opinion about being competive. all i heard, was that they couldn't run with tko and sited the #6 among the biggest problems.

and agian here lays the problem with P1usa and the svl guys. if they do in fact change to power to weight, most of the existing fleet will become outdated.

imagine if Ilmor's or some of these other combos are allowed. as i see already, the current SVL guys are NOT willing to adopted hp to wt.

agian we're back to a catch22. anyone the interested in this new P1 series is going to wait and see what they can build to make sure they can run out front and win.

so how's this problem going to be resolved, since its basically sums up the entire situtation we currently have.

[shifter]

Scott,

5775 is your limit. If they tell you what about the second engine show them a trolling motor or a paddle and you are good to go.


What I do not get is the "lets make everthing equal or (parity idea)". I know you all have an investment but if there is a product that is not up to racing standards why are you racing it?

If you put a MPH number on the class it will keep people honest. no scales, no dynos, no lines waiting to crane in or out, no lines at tech just give the inspector an SD Card etc.... keep it simple. Hey, wait that is P class.

pat W

[skaterdave]

Not entering the fray, but just a heads up, the kilo record with a 38/525/bravo pkg is 112 and change(Invensys, now Wazzup Racing) and the kilo with the 40/525/6 pkg is 115.000(Micosukkee) with the rule of thumb being kilos are 10 mph faster than avg race speed that puts them @ 102 and 105 respectively.

the question is would you go heads up agianst a #6 if you had a bravo? or for instance if you were building a new boat and had any choice of whats out there today, would you pick the bravo and still feel you could be competive ?

[imco offshore]

Dave who told you we wont except hp to weight ? actually were looking foward to it !! we want the class to grow...in the past Merc was choice because of their sponsorship..their gone,,so its time to addapt. why don,t you build an Illmore with the drive and put it in a 28 to 32 ' canopy boat and back your opinion ??? what svl person have you talked to personaly ?? not a another dreamer an OWNER the one who told you we won,t change..???

[XtremeRacing]

I think there is a difference between being competitive, (having a chance to win), and having no chance. The identical boats with Bravo's and 6's are competitive as long as only the one gear ratio is allowed in the 6 boats. (This is from everything I've asked current racers about). So, with weight and gear ratio restrictions boats can be in the same class. But, with the gear ratio changes allowed in SV on the 6 boats, the Bravo boats had no chance.

Is this wrong information?

Thats not true, a Bravo boat in race condition will never hang with a #6 boat. The Bravo drive will never last, you can ask anyone with a bravo boat, they want no part if it. Another thing is if you start adding HP then they will only have more failures. When u r in race conditions and running in 3-4 in a #6 boat and u never really have to lift believe me u have any advantage.

[XtremeRacing]

When we raced the Phantom in KW in 08 we won P3 only because Gino broke a Bravo on sunday. He beat us by a matter on sec wed and fri and i agree it was great racing, but he finally got bite with the bravo drives. You wont see any new SV being built with Bravo drives and there is a reason for that.

[DAREDEVIL]

Scott,

5775 is your limit. If they tell you what about the second engine show them a trolling motor or a paddle and you are good to go.


What I do not get is the "lets make everthing equal or (parity idea)". I know you all have an investment but if there is a product that is not up to racing standards why are you racing it?

If you put a MPH number on the class it will keep people honest. no scales, no dynos, no lines waiting to crane in or out, no lines at tech just give the inspector an SD Card etc.... keep it simple. Hey, wait that is P class.

pat W

LOL, so do i need a second engine ???

Or can i run with my 32 single and #4 in that class ???

I am just trying to figure all this out.
i am in the midle of building a new engine right now, so it would help me to understand the rules they are trying to do here.
+/- 200 pounds is not a problem for my boat.

And would there be a max speed again like in europe or no ?

mmmmmh

[DAREDEVIL]

[QUOTE=imco offshore;423411]build an Illmore with the drive and put it in a 28 to 32 ' canopy boat and back your opinion ??? QUOTE]

WHY canopy ???? HP/WEIGHT , wouldn't that allow all kind of boats , open or not ??

[Ratickle]

When we raced the Phantom in KW in 08 we won P3 only because Gino broke a Bravo on sunday. He beat us by a matter on sec wed and fri and i agree it was great racing, but he finally got bite with the bravo drives. You wont see any new SV being built with Bravo drives and there is a reason for that.

Were you running a 6?

I've never heard the Bravo was as strong, just that they are as fast as the tall ratio 6 around the course.

In the long run, (over a season or two), I've always wondered if the 6 wouldn't be cheaper in the heavier boats because of breakage. However, in SVL, hearing of a broken drive seems to be almost never.