News: Powerboat P1 strengthens presence in North America

[skaterdave]

I was referring to P1 not APBA.

yea, but to get P1 usa, you would have a be sanction by apba, hence the P1 races would be under the apba banner. i guess abpa could run along side with other orgs but this would add to the costs of racing (insurance), unless that org went under the apba umbrella.

from past experiences apba isn't the easiest governing body to deal with.

now before the svl's jump on me, from what i read is that P1 uses a hp to weight which they feel will bring alot of existing classes together and older boats out. Great! but the first thing i saw was the svl guys saying that there not changing the rules and its gotta be the current Merc 525 package. so basically i don't see anything new in the single engine/canopy class that isn't being done currently. and also we already know where thats got us?

now if i was reading that P1 Europe, which has adopted the Formula 4-stroke series, was going to some how match them in with the p-class racing here in the US and also take the current SVL class and make the a hp to weight class allowing several engine and drive combos, i could see something happening.

[Wil Ros]

It is my understanding that the single engine canopy class is still basede on a power to weight ratio.
The SVLs fit in it because, as Martin explained, the base specs are the same as the current SVL rule. That is 4750 min weigh, 550 hp or there abouts and 28 to 32 feet .

IMO, this is by far the best thing to happen to offshore since APBA had 100 plus boats in the early 2000s.

Wil

[skaterdave]

4750 min weigh, 550 hp or there abouts and 28 to 32 feet .

IMO, this is by far the best thing to happen to offshore since APBA had 100 plus boats in the early 2000s.

Wil

ok, i apologize, i read that you still had to run the merc 525 ????

[imco offshore]

now if i was reading that P1 Europe, which has adopted the Formula 4-stroke series, was going to some how match them in with the p-class racing here in the US and also take the current SVL class and make the a hp to weight class allowing several engine and drive combos, i could see something happening. Dave ,,this could be a possiablity in the future ,we will welcome other engine builders ,drive combo,,,hell even diesels,,I do see this in our future...but today we have a great class that can be governed easily ,,,and we can get the ball rolling. If racers don,t start building SVL,S now,,well it,s real hard to catch up.

[Wahoo 214]

Than you do not understand what P1 is proposing.

You must be right, because I only read the press release. It seems to me that we will now have more Orgs than most classes have boats plus 3 more classes. I fully understand and appreciate the APBA efforts to regulate offshore as an oversight body, but why is P1 in the US a great thing? They have 12 boats listed on their website and OSS has tried to offer thier p/w class with no takers. So now will everyone change thier setups? Will all of a sudden dozens of raceboats come out of the parking lots? I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Personally I think it leads to a quicker end to US Offshore.

If the P1 format survives most of todays US race boats become obsolete. My SV with Bravos wont compete with the Fountain WW 42. In SVL you have been successful in keeping new technology out, but that wont last because you only run Phantoms and Extremes. No deep pockets there. So who is going to pony up for a new fleet of boats?

[skaterdave]

You must be right, because I only read the press release. It seems to me that we will now have more Orgs than most classes have boats plus 3 more classes. I fully understand and appreciate the APBA efforts to regulate offshore as an oversight body, but why is P1 in the US a great thing? They have 12 boats listed on their website and OSS has tried to offer thier p/w class with no takers. So now will everyone change thier setups? Will all of a sudden dozens of raceboats come out of the parking lots? I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Personally I think it leads to a quicker end to US Offshore.

If the P1 format survives most of todays US race boats become obsolete. My SV with Bravos wont compete with the Fountain WW 42. In SVL you have been successful in keeping new technology out, but that wont last because you only run Phantoms and Extremes. No deep pockets there. So who is going to pony up for a new fleet of boats?

and here lies the problem. no one is willing to put themselves in a race situtation where they cant be a winner. it seems to me that almost everyone is happier racing 3-4 boats with a chance to win rather than race 12 boats knowing that they probably have only a 3rd place boat.

wahoo you guys made this exact point last year when all the p-2 guys basically walked and started a sv/bravo class and hung TKO out to dry.

whats that saying - "pot calling the kettle black"

[Wahoo 214]

Actually Dave as might you guess I see it a little different. SV OPA was formed to attrack more boats and parity. The same thing P1, APBA are trying to do with power to wieght, but OPA did it without adding a class. I agree that most would prefer to race where they have a chance to win. Seriously, why would you move out of a competitive class, re-rig your boat and still not have a chance to win? Most of us are not that stupid. But this is for another thread.

[skaterdave]

Actually Dave as might you guess I see it a little different. SV OPA was formed to attrack more boats and parity. The same thing P1, APBA are trying to do with power to wieght, but OPA did it without adding a class. I agree that most would prefer to race where they have a chance to win. Seriously, why would you move out of a competitive class, re-rig your boat and still not have a chance to win? Most of us are not that stupid. But this is for another thread.

half full half empty ???

what competive class? you guys took a class of 5-7 boats and chased out 2 of them. SV/bravo class? who in their right mind would build or rig a boat thats competively outdated? the whole intention on p-class racing is to have a place for just such a boat. it seems to me and others that some of you didn't like having a 2nd place boat, even though thats what you had for that particular race.

next attract what boats? name one ? and the OPA did add a class, its just that there was no one left in p-2 so you still had the same amount of classes.

agian, i don't think anyone's stupid. but i will have to say for such a small amount of actual racers theres alot of classes and not alot of racers willing to scarfice their winning ways of dominating their 3 boat class. if i was wrong than people like yourself would step up and take one for the team (offshore racing in general) and demand that all twin engine vee's race together no matter what. be content with developing a race series that would attract TV and then start to sift thru the races and develope class rules that can be tech-ed and have something thats growing rather than just surviving.

[Martin Sanborn]

There are a lot of very reasonable questions as well as justifiable skepticism out there. It’s encouraging to see the ongoing dialogue.

The ultimate intention of the power to weight ratio format is to open the field to more boats, and to consolidate them into fewer classes that can compete with relative parity.

In the Evolution class for example, the typical top speeds were 114 miles per hour in the top boats. This should be very attainable in virtually any twin engine canopy v-bottom here, particularly when you can adjust the horsepower and weight to find the best combination for any particular hull or set-up configuration within the 3.5kg/hp ratio.

In most cases, I think people will find that there are very minimal changes necessary to bring a lot boat boats into a few very competitive classes.

In the mean time, I hope that everyone is looking forward to racing this season, at as many venues as possible.

Martin Sanborn

[shifter]

7.7 lbs per HP

1000 hp = 7700 lb boat

2000hp = 15400 lb boat



Martin,

Missed you at PRI, it would have been good to catch up. Good luck with the endevor.

pat W

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Welcome Martin.

Very exciting. Change is often intimidating and seldom embraced. I am happy to see the new opportunity. After all that goes into racing, I want to race many boats. The best of the best from everywhere. The best few guys from the NE, the best couple boats from Florida, The best teams from the west and everyone in between.

Seems to me the time is right, the circumstances are good, and those that want to race the best will participate.

[XtremeRacing]

7.7 lbs per HP

1000 hp = 7700 lb boat

2000hp = 15400 lb boat



Martin,

Missed you at PRI, it would have been good to catch up. Good luck with the endevor.

pat W

There is also a min. weight for the Evolution class...I would have to double ck but I think it is around 8800 lbs.

[TYPHOON]

I agree with you Jim. But I will add I would also like to do it where there is opertunities to get paid for doing it as well. We as a sport have always known in the back of our minds this is going to cost me money to race. Well if the show is going to be as big as Martin says then real sponsorship is possable. Could you imagine going racing with no money out of pocket? How about even putting a little in your pocket?
I love it Martin!!!!! Less classes more boats per class as the main show.
MD

This is my opinion only!!!

[Sean Stinson]

Martin...Nice to see you on the boards bud!!!! Thanks for bringing this to oppurtunity to the USA....I will see you in Miami....

[Sean Stinson]

I agree with you Jim. But I will add I would also like to do it where there is opertunities to get paid for doing it as well. We as a sport have always known in the back of our minds this is going to cost me money to race. Well if the show is going to be as big as Martin says then real sponsorship is possable. Could you imagine going racing with no money out of pocket? How about even putting a little in your pocket?
I love it Martin!!!!! Less classes more boats per class as the main show.
MD

This is my opinion only!!!

Hey Randy

I believe this is the goal of every racer I know...so if we can all band together I think this is the best oppurtunity that we have to propel our beloved sport back up to the point it once was!!!

As they say I think the ball is in our court now....what are we going to do with it!!!

Sean

[TYPHOON]

Play ball!!!!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I look forward to hearing the purse details. I understand it will be significant and may pay to 10th place.

[Ratickle]

About time you made a showing here Martin. Welcome, hope to hear more directly from you.

And it is very good to have a thread about this subject stay as a discussion to enjoy. I appreciate it guys, and I'm still looking at boats to race....

[SHARKEY-IMAGES]

So with P1-USA, the Rules for Pro-Am (SVL) will be Power to Weight Ratio and opened to any engine manufacturer and drive combination ???

Also, thank you Martin for your hard efforts on this business.

You had an honorable mention here:

http://www.sharkey-images.blogspot.com/

[imco offshore]

There is also a min. weight for the Evolution class...I would have to double ck but I think it is around 8800 lbs.

Frank your right ,,however there arn,t many twin engine boats with only 1000 hp..at the least they have a pair of 525's so in reality their pushing about 1100 hp ,,,,hp to weight they would meet minium... com-on and build a single eng boat and lets have fun like we usto.. i think the great ol days are on their way back,,,3 preimer classes 60 boats and everyone really races to win.. like randy said ,,,just my opinion,,lets play ball