racing or top speed???

[Pete B]

I am sure Mike can correct me, but in St Pete 03 I remember 10-15 750 Cats racing, then Mercury gave someone 5 votes and decided to discontinue the 750 and release the 850. How many 750-850 boats are out there now(that race on a regular basis)3-4?

The bottom line is Mercury has affected all of offshore racing(big and small), but now that they dont have any vested interest or sponsorship monies to any race group, what do we do now?

Frank, in the pits your right, the big boats are the show, on the race course however, they have a tendency of spacing out too far, or basically blowing up and when your a dope on a rope, thats not too much of a show. Last time someone told me that people were there to see the "big boats" I decided to run side by side with a P5 boat and the both of us made the front page of the paper the next day, not the big boats that this particular someone told me everyone was there to see. If memory serves me correctly , you made the front page of the Miami Herald or the KW paper in 05 worlds as you were pictured running side by side with TKO and LaveyCraft. In Deerfield 03, I will never forget you running down the dock telling Bruce and I how great a "show" that we put on with Pitman Photo, "It was the best race out there", you said. We were on the course the same time that Bacardi Silver, Snack Attack, etc were. COMPETITION is the show, whether it is a big boats or a small boats, side by side racing is what the people want to see. Funny thing, I remember when you were one of us small guys, you always used to say"We are the show" Dang you go and get ride in a big boat now and your attitude sure has changed lol

What i remember about 2003 St pete, was 10 supercats into the first turn 8 came out! Reliable spun, ripped a sponson off, and slashed the entire length
of JEM putting both out of the race. I can only say luck was on thier side, because it could have been a lot worse. in 2006 OSS Cat Lite 10 boats ft myers, and lots of bumping going on. when and if those classes ever get like that again, better be some good driving and even better judgement on the course. when there are 6 plus boats racing for the first turn at over 100, odds are something will happen in the course of a season. This is why SAFETY is paramount, being fit for racing is a must.

[XtremeRacing]

Trent ,
Thanks for the info. perfect that will work.

[F1-00 Racing]

What i remember about 2003 St pete, was 10 supercats into the first turn 8 came out! Reliable spun, ripped a sponson off, and slashed the entire length
of JEM putting both out of the race. I can only say luck was on thier side, because it could have been a lot worse. in 2006 OSS Cat Lite 10 boats ft myers, and lots of bumping going on. when and if those classes ever get like that again, better be some good driving and even better judgement on the course. when there are 6 plus boats racing for the first turn at over 100, odds are something will happen in the course of a season. This is why SAFETY is paramount, being fit for racing is a must.

I remember that as well, and knock on wood all safely came out of the accident ok. And I totally agree with you that safety is the most important aspect of racing. Unfortunately, accidents will happen, but hopefully in the future, the only result will be hurt pride and some boat damage, not loss of life.

[THEJOKER]

Bill Park and myself spent the money to go to full time air when we raced SVL#33. I never understood the reach for air method if you're upside down or knocked out.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Bill Park and myself spent the money to go to full time air when we raced SVL#33. I never understood the reach for air method if you're upside down or knocked out.

It is still not fool proof. You are assuming a water intrusion doesn't relocate it and your helmet on your head.

[THEJOKER]

It is still not fool proof. You are assuming a water intrusion doesn't relocate it and your helmet on your head.

You are right but we had back up air also. If the canopy stays intact your chances are good. After lengthy discussions with Will at Phantom I felt safe in that boat. We were also were running the bigger motor.

[Sean H]

Lighting?

Like a strobe or what do you mean and pics of hinges ?

What we use is ordinary latch hinges with the pins changed to locking pins so if someone from the outside need to open the hatch just pull them and open unless he can´t open it from the outside like supposed to.
We use big rig tarp rubber straps which are pulled thru a hole in the hatch.
Can be pulled open the opposite way and still keep the lid down at speed, rattles a bit and isn´t completely waterproof ( both issues can be fixed ) but gets the job done.



After a flip "test" @ 100mph (less than one hour in the water with the new boat) with the strap so the pullhandle is outside. Note the split hull and the mat outside on the deck joint.

all those things might work on a much lighter boat, but would be definite don'ts on a larger cat. If you have ever seen the half inch stainless and aluminum handles that have folded over on the inside or the hinges like that with no backing plates that come straight out of the hatch or canopy you might be surprised.

3 point positive latches, handles that cant be turned or bent by the water pressure on the outside, hinges that can take the direct impact of the incident. Hatch edges that can't catch water (recessed into canopy). If the hatch doesn't stay on, your chances drop dramatically.

Glow sticks work great on regulators and escape handles, but we are looking into an actual emergency lighting system as well. It can get dark in a hurry.

[phragle]

Another item I have mentioned before, but is probably overlooked by a few (after seeing the inside on many canopies...

Your torso is strapped in so your not going anywhere, but is a violent crash you arms and legs will be flying around. What will they hit? Should you injure an arm or leg because it hit something or is bleeding heavily because you gouged it, have you contemplated how to deal with the situation? have you tried/ practiced extricating yourself with one hand? can you reach your air with either hand? Have you padded/recessed whatever you might contact?

[TYPHOON]

Sean, great stuff. Any pic's of the hardware? I would think a standard latching system and all hardware should be the same on every canopy boat. In an emergency the rescue team is familiar with the hardware if its all the same. Just a thought.
MD

[MikeyFIN]

all those things might work on a much lighter boat, but would be definite don'ts on a larger cat. If you have ever seen the half inch stainless and aluminum handles that have folded over on the inside or the hinges like that with no backing plates that come straight out of the hatch or canopy you might be surprised.

3 point positive latches, handles that cant be turned or bent by the water pressure on the outside, hinges that can take the direct impact of the incident. Hatch edges that can't catch water (recessed into canopy). If the hatch doesn't stay on, your chances drop dramatically.

Glow sticks work great on regulators and escape handles, but we are looking into an actual emergency lighting system as well. It can get dark in a hurry.

I´ve seen the horror pics yes.
They key yes is to have them on a light boat yes, but look at the lids...they are basically all that you mention plus kevlar carbon and reinforced.
The hinges have stainlessteel backing plates offcourse on the Canopy and I did mention about those hatches without their backing plates, the next version did have them just couldn´t find any good close up pics of those, the might be on one of my secondary harddrives which crashed and lost probably 10000 boatpics there.

I Agree fully what you´re saying but those hatches stayed perfectly on a 100+mph totally sideways 3 barrel roll even that way
No I don´t rely on them still could been a truly bad accident there also.
Regarding the rubber straps they will hold extreme measures as they have to keep the cargo inside the tarp if needed even in a flip with a big rig.

You have valid points and regarding lightning, thats a truly good idea.
Still personally like in aircrafts I hate to have sturdy metal objects close to me.
I prefer the stuff to give in a bit not rip off and be a passive restraint, you probably know what I´m after.

[MikeyFIN]

It is still not fool proof. You are assuming a water intrusion doesn't relocate it and your helmet on your head.

Along comes HANS restraints and the more you take up safety equioment the less mobile you get and in the end you´re body cant take the hits despite staying in place.

[Sean H]

here are some mock up pics... I don't have any final pics on this computer. Even this is going to be slightly revised in the re-rig over the winter.

[TYPHOON]

phragle, Those are also good points. Most teams have there cockpit well layed out with padding where your legs and arm's are hitting. On the other subject I do like the idea of testing in the duncker with differant scenario's. Call it advanced training. If you have ever been to the pool and watch the teams practice the duncker there are always some teams that realy struggel with the fear of being under water. The saftey divers spend extra time with those people and by the time they are done the person always is in better shape then when they first got there. My hats off to Dave D. and the entire staff that works with him. It's not a good feeling when you are flipped,under water,strapped in and reaching for air. I hate the feeling but what I can tell you is it has gotten easyer and easyer over time beacause of the mandatory practice I have gone threw. Just ask anyone that has gone over if they thought the dunker helped them.
MD

[HIGH LIFE]

App. 1980-1981 I remember in APBA a doctor said it was 4 times more dangerous running 90 than 80...100+ ??? I would like to see the former Production, Modified + Sport classes come back. "HIGH LIFE"

[MikeyFIN]

here are some mock up pics... I don't have any final pics on this computer. Even this is going to be slightly revised in the re-rig over the winter.

Looks good but I wonder how do you open that hatch when the pins get bent?

[Sean H]

Looks good but I wonder how do you open that hatch when the pins get bent?

If the pins bend, which they could, and the hatch is stuck, that means the hatch is still on. There is still another way out the boat, the tunnel. Although, if there is enough pressure to bend the pins, I would assume that the hatch will be gone like the other cases. Hopefully the hatch will stay tight enough and sealed enough, that it can not lift, therefore not bending anything.

[MikeyFIN]

Another item I have mentioned before, but is probably overlooked by a few (after seeing the inside on many canopies...

Your torso is strapped in so your not going anywhere, but is a violent crash you arms and legs will be flying around. What will they hit? Should you injure an arm or leg because it hit something or is bleeding heavily because you gouged it, have you contemplated how to deal with the situation? have you tried/ practiced extricating yourself with one hand? can you reach your air with either hand? Have you padded/recessed whatever you might contact?

On top of my 3 layer fireproof nomex which isn´t much of a cushion but more than a T-shirt like in Clearwater as per "team boss orders", I have knee pads, long neck racing shoes and elbow pads and racing gloves.
I have from roadracing and karting learnt to cover everything.
Being a Finn (=Sauna @ 200F several times a week) so I´m used to heat but not get burnt.

[MikeyFIN]

If the pins bend, which they could, and the hatch is stuck, that means the hatch is still on. There is still another way out the boat, the tunnel. Although, if there is enough pressure to bend the pins, I would assume that the hatch will be gone like the other cases. Hopefully the hatch will stay tight enough and sealed enough, that it can not lift, therefore not bending anything.

Yes I understand that but I was thinking how to get inside the boat if the hatch stays on. As it doesn´t mean the crew inside is alright and the rescuer need to have as easy as access as possible.
From the Victory crash we saw how the rescuer IMO panicked.
Therefore we use those rubber straps... you can put more of them ( I´d prefer double from the pics at least) in a hatch and they will stay on as long as the hatch is light and sturdy..those of ours can be run over by a truck or shot at with a mooserifle and they take it and weight is minimal.

This is a good discussion and I like it to stay fruitful.

[MikeyFIN]

App. 1980-1981 I remember in APBA a doctor said it was 4 times more dangerous running 90 than 80...100+ ??? I would like to see the former Production, Modified + Sport classes come back. "HIGH LIFE"

Everytime you add speed the stopping distance quadruples or the energy ( mass X speed ), so does the risks involved.

[Pete B]

phragle, Those are also good points. Most teams have there cockpit well layed out with padding where your legs and arm's are hitting. On the other subject I do like the idea of testing in the duncker with differant scenario's. Call it advanced training. If you have ever been to the pool and watch the teams practice the duncker there are always some teams that realy struggel with the fear of being under water. The saftey divers spend extra time with those people and by the time they are done the person always is in better shape then when they first got there. My hats off to Dave D. and the entire staff that works with him. It's not a good feeling when you are flipped,under water,strapped in and reaching for air. I hate the feeling but what I can tell you is it has gotten easyer and easyer over time beacause of the mandatory practice I have gone threw. Just ask anyone that has gone over if they thought the dunker helped them.
MD

They should start having you guys do the dunker with blackout goggles to simulate doing it in the dark, everyone that has done the dunker, knows that it it a survival tool, take it to the next level, It can only help that much more.