It's about time!!!

[XtremeRacing]

Pete ,
Not that it isnt cracked up to be ??? SBI tried it and just didnt see any advantage but gave it a shot. It did add cost thats for sure. So with times the way they r SBI felt it made more scence to try and keep cost down. Also opens the door for other ORG. to race with SBI if they r members of another ORG. without having to pay APBA fee's and just race fee's . I know that was always a big issue for a lot of teams. That was something Randy has always tried to work on and now it can happen. I know SBI and OPA have that agreement already. Possible it will help in the futhure time will tell....

[Steve Miklos]

APBA and UIM are what you make of them.
In the case of the LLC we made it a center piece.
In the case of OPT they did not.
The reason I mention the LLC and OPT is because they had the most marketed events in the sports history.
Depending on insurance costs it (APBA) can be very little cost or a significant amount.

You cannot lock people in a room and make them do a deal they will stick to. You have not for profits and for profit entity's their motives will be very different. I personally think there is no such thing as a highly successfully main stream marketed not for profit racing entity. Smitty is doing great but big sponsors will want to see a profit motive.

Simply put boat racing is not a charity.

Steve

[Chris]

What does Unlimited hydroplane racing have that Offshore doesn't?

I'm far from an expert, but it seems like there are fewer than a dozen teams in Unlimited and they pack the shores wherever they go. And they appear to attract sponsors. Non-marine sponsors at that.

[Pete B]

Then I must ask why in the world would there be constant bickering over anything less than APBA/UIM sanction, was nothing??? Now it seems as well it really wasnt that important, and well not worth the money. So does this mean the titles and championships are really nothing as well?

[XtremeRacing]

I dont know the anwser to that, does the OSS/OPA titles mean anything???

[XtremeRacing]

Pete ,

Not sure where u r trying to go , but maybe u should just come out and say what u really want to say so the rest of us can try and move in the right direction FORWARD

I already said SBI tried and it didnt seem to work for THEM, never said it might be worth something to another Org. to run there banner. SBI , OPA, and OSS has always has titles and Kilo's with our without APBA..... why would anything change. All I said is that cost was a major factor to SBI and felt it would work better for the future plan.

[XtremeRacing]

Not sure who was bickering about the APBA lic. I think at the time it was avalible who every wanted to pay for it could of had it. Didint see anyone stepping up to the plate ??? But now if it is so important who ever want can run the banner win win for everyone.

[imco offshore]

What does Unlimited hydroplane racing have that Offshore doesn't?

I'm far from an expert, but it seems like there are fewer than a dozen teams in Unlimited and they pack the shores wherever they go. And they appear to attract sponsors. Non-marine sponsors at that.

they have ONE premier class, if you want to race in un hyd,you build to that rule book ,,,simple...offshore racing,, builds boats knowone else has and pays for a class thus we have 20 classes..bottom line NO SHOW,, example,,cats 1 turbine 2 unlimited 2 850 semi limited 2 850 limited 2 750 limited 2 750 unlimited 2 super ,,,ect,,,not exact but you get the point,,,and v,s are even worse,,,,we will never have ( THE BIG SHOW) UNTILL their is a single rule book to build by,,and all org,s reconize it.. bracket racing is fine,,,speck racing needs 2 v,s single and twins,,,cats super and unlimited,,cat outboabd i know all the cat owners can afford to run the same engine,,i don,t think they really want to line up with 15 others in the same class,,right now every cat finishes on the podium,daaaa ,,, thats my 2 cents,,,,

[XtremeRacing]

As George was saying another factor is if and when a class does kick off alot of the teams bail, we have been there ..... 15 F1 , 15 F2 , 12 SV , 8-10 SCL . and 10 SVL. I dont think u can blame any of the Org. for those classes going away, its the racers.

[Chris]

I suppose then that proves the contention that you must field a winner to attract a sponsor to be false. So then is it pure ego that has put us in the position of having dozens of classes with two boats in each? And if so, where's the ego gratification in winning against no competition?

I think the OPA bracket stuff is fantastic for the sportsman racer. And I think that's the perfect Saturday show. Fill the day with the warmup act.

Can you imagine how many 750 cats you could put on the course for the cost of the turbine teams alone? Toss in the supercats...

[imco offshore]

chris your right,,go to a awards banquit, and watch a single boat class winner on the stage,, you would think they just won an oscar...better yet read their press release the next day,,some how they raced against 30 other boats,,,

[XtremeRacing]

Lol

[TYPHOON]

Thats the advantage of haveing APBA rules that we all follow!!!! Here are the classes we offer. No more no less. Build a boat to fit a class. Now if you can get all the org. to honor those rules and not start classes beacause they need more boat count we could build something. Thats the drive behind having APBA sanction Offshore. We are all so affraid to reduce classes thinking we will lose boats and they will go race in another Org. Now if the org's. had a pact that they will only offer the same classes we would have some racing. We need 5-7 boats min. per class to allow it in the big show!
MD

[XtremeRacing]

Interesting I didnt think APBA had a rule book with classes I thought it read Offshore? What classes do they offer ??

[TYPHOON]

They dont at this point. I believe they are trying to get Offshore back on the right track.
MD

[Steve Miklos]

In the past they did not right the rules but did use influence to keep some manufacturers out of racing at the annual meetings.
Steve

[XtremeRacing]

Randy you are correct I did some checking today, and from my understanding they dont have a rule book for Offshroe and that is not their goal. They r interested in membership fee's from the racers, and sanctioning fee from the Org.and I also beleive they can supply insurance but I'm not sure of the cost good or bad.

On a side note if we as racers have to pay addition fee's to APBA to make a rule book for us I hate to say it but thats pretty sad . Every team would have to hold a membership card or else no cross racing again. That was the issue SBI had and has resolved.

[Steve Miklos]

Randy
The rulebook you always saw was not a product of APBA. It was a product of the LLC.
If you saw the old rulebook you would realize it was very open to abuse.

The first rewrite was Gene W. 1997 when Mike, Pepper and I brought factory class to life. Gene wanted an X dimension and weight rules we fought him ,by race 3 we knew we needed weight rules. In 2000 we brought in the X dimension also.
In 1998 the rules got a complete overhaul closing many loopholes this happened again in 2000 and 2003. The last two rewrites were Mike A. and myself. We learned much from people like Chuck Sprague and Charlie Strang about mistakes Nascar and Cart had made and did our best not to repeat them. We angered the old guard by not deferring to them but they had produced the past products that were so unenforceable.

As far as reducing classes we did it and Mike Carter took care of the excluded boats by transforming local 1 and 2 into the P class with GPS units you see today.

Supercat was mainly George Linder who set the weights and tunnel ratios. I delivered the spec head and engine program. Charlie Strang and I later added the restricted carb and rev limit while at Mercury Racing. It was the first tome Charlie had been in the building in decades.
Andrew Corn expanded the homologation rules.

The products created were
Factory 1,2 and 3 (later Supercat lite) replaced A,B and Modified
Super V lite and Super V replaced canopied A,B Super V
Supercat replaced Open and Superboat

These rules are still in use for the most part at SBI and OSS. The part that is always subject to interpretation is tech procedures and enforcement.
Steve

[Pete B]

I suppose then that proves the contention that you must field a winner to attract a sponsor to be false. So then is it pure ego that has put us in the position of having dozens of classes with two boats in each? And if so, where's the ego gratification in winning against no competition?

I think the OPA bracket stuff is fantastic for the sportsman racer. And I think that's the perfect Saturday show. Fill the day with the warmup act.

Can you imagine how many 750 cats you could put on the course for the cost of the turbine teams alone? Toss in the supercats...

Well said!

[THEJOKER]

Randy
The rulebook you always saw was not a product of APBA. It was a product of the LLC.
If you saw the old rulebook you would realize it was very open to abuse.

The first rewrite was Gene W. 1997 when Mike Pepper and I brought factory class to life. Gene wanted an X dimension and weight rules we fought him by race 3 we knew we needed weight rules in 2000 we brought in the X dimension.
In 1998 the rules got a complete overhaul closing many loopholes this happened again in 2000 and 2003. The last two rewrites were Mike A. and myself. we learned much from people like Chuck Sprague and Charlie Strang about mistakes Nascar and Cart had made and did our best not to repeat them. We angered the old guard by not defering to them but they had produce the past products that were so unenforceable.

As far as reducing classes we did it and Mike Carter took care of the excluded boats by transforming local 1 and 2 into the P class with GPS units you see today.

Supercat was mainly George Linder who set the weights and tunnel ratios. I delivered the spec head and engine program. Charlie Strang and I later added the restricted carb and rev limit.
Andrew Corn expanded the homologation rules.

The products created were
Factory 1,2 and 3 (later Supercat lite) replaced A,B and Modified
Super V lite and Super V replaced canopied A,B Super V
Supercat replaced Open and Superboat

These rules are still in use for the most part at SBI and OSS. The part that is always subject to interpretation is tech procedures and enforcement.
steve

Steve is right on the money and this formula was successful. Open Class was 1 boat racing in 1999 and then Super Cat was unleashed. It worked and it worked well.