The Great Canopy debate: To cover or not to cover, Thats the question!

[2TR]

While planning my winter project about cutting the F16 canopy off my boat and building a 4 person DW style lid I have gotten allot of interesting e-mails and this is what I was told...

- Cut it off and keep it off, Open boats are safer; thrown clear is better than getting stuck inside a lid.

- Keep the F16 Canopy, its solid and safe enough for Hydro's traveling 200mph

- Remove the F16 Canopy and put anything on other than that death trap.

- Don't build a Doug Wright style lid, those are junk.. build a fountain copy.

- Don't build a Fountain style lid, those are junk.. build a Doug Wright copy.

- Canopied boats should be outlawed in poker runs, you flip and your stuck inside with out a dive team.

- open boats over 85 boats should be outlawed in poker runs, you flip and your in trouble.

- Build the canopy thick and heavy

- No matter how think and heavy you build it, it can fail.

So with this information I have come to the conclusion canopied boats are not always safe and open boats are not always safe.. so I guess racing is dangerous

[Chris]

I don't believe any canopy is safe at 200 mph. At least not one connected to the mass of an offshore boat. And your last one was spot on- you can break anything.

The open-top canopy seems like a decent compromise in a boat that doesn't have a rescue diver in a helo. It gives you some margin of protection and some margin of escape-ability. It also depends on the boat. It's pretty rare for a vee to stop upside down or to sink immediately. Cats on the other hand don't care which side they stop on so you've got a good chance of being trapped.

[imco offshore]

I don't believe any canopy is safe at 200 mph. At least not one connected to the mass of an offshore boat. And your last one was spot on- you can break anything.

The open-top canopy seems like a decent compromise in a boat that doesn't have a rescue diver in a helo. It gives you some margin of protection and some margin of escape-ability. It also depends on the boat. It's pretty rare for a vee to stop upside down or to sink immediately. Cats on the other hand don't care which side they stop on so you've got a good chance of being trapped.

your right most v bottoms roll over like a weebell, and good cats have 2 ways out thru the top hatch and another thru the floor (tunnel) so i vote canopy,

[DAREDEVIL]

- No matter how think and heavy you build it, it can fail.



AND U SAY SOMETHING ABOUT MY SPELLING ????

[Tres]

This should not be a debate. Unless racing just remove the canopy and install some wind protection and has structural strength.

[Tom A.]

I agree with Tres. Canopies belong in racing and not pleasure boating. Accidents can happen at any speed but the reason I no longer race and stick to pleasure boating is because I like to enjoy my boat and keep my self out of hairy situations. I love running side by side but also have no problem backing off and saying now is not the time to run hard. Untrained people, no safety teams and an enclosed boat is a disaster waiting to happen.

[Tom A.]

As for race canopies, has anyone looked into building a passenger compartment capsule for two similar to what they use in the drag boats? Seems like that works well in high speed stuffs and rolls.

[2TR]

- No matter how think and heavy you build it, it can fail.



AND U SAY SOMETHING ABOUT MY SPELLING ????

Nice catch.. LOL

[2TR]

This should not be a debate. Unless racing just remove the canopy and install some wind protection and has structural strength.

I agree with Tres. Canopies belong in racing and not pleasure boating. .

Don't you need to worry about surviving that 100mph crash before worrying about getting out the wreckage? I would think getting pitched at 100mph in an open cockpit boat would kill a person.

Whats offers the best odds of survival on the initial impact?
- 100mph Roll in an canopied V-Bottom
- 100mph Roll in an Open Boat?


Just asking, not arguing.

[Steve 1]

Depends on how fast you are going? Racing speeds among Professional drivers Yes Now Racing Speeds among Unprofessional drivers that is up to you after a 100 I would put a lid on it.

[DAREDEVIL]

Don't you need to worry about surviving that 100mph crash before worrying about getting out the wreckage? I would think getting pitched at 100mph in an open cockpit boat would kill a person.

Whats offers the best odds of survival on the initial impact?
- 100mph Roll in an canopied V-Bottom
- 100mph Roll in an Open Boat?


Just asking, not arguing.

I think if u roll a open cockpit boat @ 100 ,,u will not be in the boat anymore when it comes down.
Thats why i like open boats better then canopy !!!

[KSims1868]

On a "Pleasure Craft" for poker runs or whatever...why does it HAVE to be a permanent fixture that can't be removed? Or is that already an option that's been explored and removed from contention? I mean obviously all canopies are meant to be opened so you can get in and out, but are there canopy setups that were built to be removed and left off if the boater chooses to run around in an open boat?

I am NOT very well-versed in boat building (which is probably painfully obvious) but it seems that a nice compromise would be a removable top. There has to be a safe way to have the best of both worlds. With all the technology and new materials for building available today there's got to be an alternative to "canopy" or "no canopy".

[skaterdave]

I agree with Tres. Canopies belong in racing and not pleasure boating. Accidents can happen at any speed but the reason I no longer race and stick to pleasure boating is because I like to enjoy my boat and keep my self out of hairy situations. I love running side by side but also have no problem backing off and saying now is not the time to run hard. Untrained people, no safety teams and an enclosed boat is a disaster waiting to happen.

???????????

hhhhmmm, i disagree here. theres been just as many if not more fatal accidents in non-canopy poker run boats vs race boats lately. whos to say that if the accidents of late among the poker runners would have turned out different if they had capsules.

i'd rather be in a capsule upside down and have to swim out rather than any of the other options one could come up with.

plus the theory of needing a dive comes into question, since i have yet to see a situtation where the occupants of a racing accident that couldn't get out themselves lived. i'm sure that the dive teams do there jobs and the have pulled many to safety but in most off the rollovers the racers are out before anyone is even on scene and unfortunitly the accidents that the divers have to get the racers out its normally past the point of no return, i'm only stating what i've seen and heard about.

so not to have a canopy boat for safety reasons of not having a full time dive team avilable is kind of a oxy-moron when used as a reason for not have a canopy, especailly at the speeds of the boats now adays.

anything can be dangerous and the faster or greater the speed the more that danger multiplies. basically it comes down to what your comfortable in. the other thing that at pleasure boaters seem to overlook alot is that theres poeple involved that have put their lives in your hand and your responsible for them and others around you.

[Bradz]

Wasn't there a time when people did not want to wear car seat belts because they could trap you in the car? I have had a pleasure canopy and a now a open pleasure (same boat). I would much rather take my chances with the slim odds of drowning in the canopy then to get tossed out of a cat at a 150. Canopy boats are much safer in any condition in my book. However the reality is for pleasure boat use canopies are very loud, very hot and you can not see very well behind or to the side. I prefer open cockpits for pleasure use now.

[animalhouse]

That is a tough question, but as most of you know we had a canopied race boat (which was actually a production boat) roll over, both the driver and throttle man were safe and awake, they let themselves out of the boat. The canopy did not fail, infact the windshield is still in perfect condition.

[MikeyFIN]

unless you at least has taken the immersion test and have an air bottle and regulastors for the crew NO canopies...so therefore no in pleasure boats.

[BobbyB]

I got thrown at a high speed. And got hurt pretty bad and the driver passed away. So i think canopys are safer.

[Slandrew]

In a race yes but for pleasure obstructed view harder to escape I whould vote no.

[nortech4play]

This is a pretty interesting debate , on one hand yes the canopy boat offers more protection if used properly but an open cockpit offers better visibility and overall comfort...

Since I run and open cockpit cat that has a few blind spots which make running at modest speeds somewhat of a challenge without another set of eyes to make sure you can see everything around and in front of you.

I could be wrong and most probably are but I would think having a closed cockpit for pleasure boating would be in my mind incredibly difficult and mentally taxing.

Even then to make them effective you would always need to be securely belted in with supplemental oxygen but how many pleasure boaters actually do that when running at some of the high speeds that these boats run on a typical weekend?

I understand the need for canopy's in racing due to the high speeds and close quarters that the boats are running it's definitely an awesome safety improvement akin to cages and wings on sprint cars.

This is not to say I don't think they are some of the "sickest" boats out on the water they are but there just not for me. Although I did really like the retractable Nor-Tech that was at the shootout, it would be nice when the weather doesn't want to cooperate...

In the end it becomes a personal decision that someone should weight the "pro's and con's" seriously before running a boat with a lid.

just me $0.02

[Chris]

???????????

i have yet to see a situtation where the occupants of a racing accident that couldn't get out themselves lived.

Tom Gentry for one.

A couple of years ago the guys in the canopied turbine boat on Chesapeake (not racing, running alone)

Those come to mind as accidents where the occupants were trapped in the canopy.