The Great Canopy debate: To cover or not to cover, Thats the question!

[MikeyFIN]

If designed correctly a canopy and associated safety equipment should work. What gets my attention is that an add on canopy probably are not designed to be integerated into an existing non-canopy hull.

Look at NASCAR where everything is hung onto the roll cage as that's the backbone of the car. On a NEW DESIGN boat you can design that type of backbone into the structure, not a metal tube frame, but a structural composite frame to include the canopy.

Adding a canopy to an existing hull would be a structures design exercise for each and every hull and canopy design and may be impossible to complete on many boats.

To start, what do we consider the strongest structural component in a boat hull ? and how do we attach/integerate into that component without compromising the original design or the add on canopy ?

Lots to think about !
ed

sure is lots... but you gotta do it as you do it in racecars.

*the canopy is a safety capsule and can therefore be adapted to different configurations.

[Tres]

If your going to bring a person along in your boat, and you have a canopy you better be aware of the liability. First Who is going to say the the structure integrity of the canopy or glass is going to hold up to your high speed occurance. Did you do structural testing to said conopy? are the people riding along trained to exit properly? without panic? Is your air system properly up to date? Do you maintain it every time you use the vessel? If your are not strapped in, you will get hurt. You cannot access upper lid to open untill water PSI has equalized so you will need to stay put and breathe from a regulatorand mouth peice. You will be hanging from your seat upside down so you need to brace yourself to release harness. If you know where to grab and access or even where to reach for the regulator?. Do you know which way to swim when you get out of the canopy? What if your occupants are unconcience how are you going to keep them breathing and remove them? I have seen professional racers PANIC in the dunker test over and over again. When you go upside down in a boat you dont have your wits about you or have a clue from right or left. So lets put family and freinds into a canopy put them upside down and see if they can really struggle to make it to the surface to breathe again. You all think its easy. Its not at all. Quit this debate and move on.Wait untill the insurance company gets burried on one of these claims or think about the lawsuit you may be involved in when someone dies in your canopy boat.

[PM203]

If your going to bring a person along in your boat, and you have a canopy you better be aware of the liability. First Who is going to say the the structure integrity of the canopy or glass is going to hold up to your high speed occurance. Did you do structural testing to said conopy? are the people riding along trained to exit properly? without panic? Is your air system properly up to date? Do you maintain it every time you use the vessel? If your are not strapped in, you will get hurt. You cannot access upper lid to open untill water PSI has equalized so you will need to stay put and breathe from a regulatorand mouth peice. You will be hanging from your seat upside down so you need to brace yourself to release harness. If you know where to grab and access or even where to reach for the regulator?. Do you know which way to swim when you get out of the canopy? What if your occupants are unconcience how are you going to keep them breathing and remove them? I have seen professional racers PANIC in the dunker test over and over again. When you go upside down in a boat you dont have your wits about you or have a clue from right or left. So lets put family and freinds into a canopy put them upside down and see if they can really struggle to make it to the surface to breathe again. You all think its easy. Its not at all. Quit this debate and move on.Wait untill the insurance company gets burried on one of these claims or think about the lawsuit you may be involved in when someone dies in your canopy boat.

That about sums it up. Personally, I think canopies do not belong on pleasure boats.

[2TR]

If your going to bring a person along in your boat, and you have a canopy you better be aware of the liability. First Who is going to say the the structure integrity of the canopy or glass is going to hold up to your high speed occurance. Did you do structural testing to said conopy? are the people riding along trained to exit properly? without panic? Is your air system properly up to date? Do you maintain it every time you use the vessel? If your are not strapped in, you will get hurt. You cannot access upper lid to open untill water PSI has equalized so you will need to stay put and breathe from a regulatorand mouth peice. You will be hanging from your seat upside down so you need to brace yourself to release harness. If you know where to grab and access or even where to reach for the regulator?. Do you know which way to swim when you get out of the canopy? What if your occupants are unconcience how are you going to keep them breathing and remove them? I have seen professional racers PANIC in the dunker test over and over again. When you go upside down in a boat you dont have your wits about you or have a clue from right or left. So lets put family and freinds into a canopy put them upside down and see if they can really struggle to make it to the surface to breathe again. You all think its easy. Its not at all. Quit this debate and move on.Wait untill the insurance company gets burried on one of these claims or think about the lawsuit you may be involved in when someone dies in your canopy boat.

So you don't need to worry about Lawsuits if someone dies in a high speed open boat accident?

[2TR]

I was more concerned about the ABOVE avg. power boater, the 100mph plus boats.

[Tres]

So you don't need to worry about Lawsuits if someone dies in a high speed open boat accident?

Well at least they are not being restrained. Going down with the ship is no fun. Dont make this thread get ugly like the cat insurance thread. You knew when you started this thread it would just fester people up. It just stir up the pot. Being a racer of 18 years I was very aware of the danger of being enclosed and what safety it offered at the same time, and drive teams still had to be present and inspect your vessel to see how to remove you from the canopy.Once a Canopy boat goes over, the clock is ticking, very fast.

[2TR]

Well at least they are not being restrained. Going down with the ship is no fun.

Dieing is no fun, correct

But what would you stand a better chance of surviving the initial impact in?

I don't want to turn this thread into a Internet slap fight, but with the speeds boats are going now a days I
would think a lid would be a good safety feature.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

That about sums it up. Personally, I think canopies do not belong on pleasure boats.

Boats are going too fast , Pleasure boats and race boats.

[imco offshore]

i was in sarasota bay today in a canopy at 109 and glAD it was a canapoy. i wouldn,t even think of it otherwise,

[Tres]

Boats are going too fast , Pleasure boats and race boats.

Amen. People dont want to hear that though. they forget how fast 100 really is.

[Tres]

Dieing is no fun, correct

But what would you stand a better chance of surviving the initial impact in?

I don't want to turn this thread into a Internet slap fight, but with the speeds boats are going now a days I
would think a lid would be a good safety feature.

Your right if your well trained and the canopy and structure have undergone stress testing. But for a consumer no! Coffin on the water.Even itf you crashed all by yourself at 150. when the boat crashes your brains are still going 150 untill they bottom out against the inside of your skull, thus leaving you non awake. as the boat sinks with you strapped in, you can figure that one out.If your thrown from a boat wearing a lifeline jacket, you may have a chance. Quit this! Do what you want, but dont drag this out there for everyone else to get this idea in their head.

[phragle]

So you guys tell me...would it be a good idea for a semi-unexperienced driver to run around Daytona motor speedway as fast as he possibly can in a 200 mph nascar that has had the roof cut off turning it into a convertable? with no seatbelts or helmet??

[Chris]

As long as manufacturers build canopy boats and sell them to the pleasure boating public, or people buy ex-raceboats and convert them to pleasure boats, this will remain a perfectly valid debate.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Boats are going so fast that no amount of safety equipment makes them safe. Yes even the state of the art equipment hasn't truly been tested at the high speeds boats are going.

Rob mentioned convertible Nascar.. How about racing Stadium Supercross in only shorts, flip flops and goggles. Both are safer than any boat going over 150. IMO

[catastrophe]

Tres makes the right points.

Canopy without dunk test knowledge,oxygen,helmet and a helicopter with divers overhead is a coffin.

IMO

[imco offshore]

If your going to bring a person along in your boat, and you have a canopy you better be aware of the liability. First Who is going to say the the structure integrity of the canopy or glass is going to hold up to your high speed occurance. Did you do structural testing to said conopy? are the people riding along trained to exit properly? without panic? Is your air system properly up to date? Do you maintain it every time you use the vessel? If your are not strapped in, you will get hurt. You cannot access upper lid to open untill water PSI has equalized so you will need to stay put and breathe from a regulatorand mouth peice. You will be hanging from your seat upside down so you need to brace yourself to release harness. If you know where to grab and access or even where to reach for the regulator?. Do you know which way to swim when you get out of the canopy? What if your occupants are unconcience how are you going to keep them breathing and remove them? I have seen professional racers PANIC in the dunker test over and over again. When you go upside down in a boat you dont have your wits about you or have a clue from right or left. So lets put family and freinds into a canopy put them upside down and see if they can really struggle to make it to the surface to breathe again. You all think its easy. Its not at all. Quit this debate and move on.Wait untill the insurance company gets burried on one of these claims or think about the lawsuit you may be involved in when someone dies in your canopy boat.

Tres, your right but,, that can be said for any boat on earth.. ask Bob? ,,that was an open boat?

[Tres]

Tres, your right but,, that can be said for any boat on earth.. ask Bob? ,,that was an open boat?

Once again, Its OK if your a racer. Not a consumer. You forget know that you have been it it for a while the dangers of a consumer in a boat that has a false sense of speed, limited visibility,and distortion. and on a poker run??? Dont forget when the boat goes upside down, it lights out. They cant even see. Lets not forget HOW many racers have been killed in canopy restraint system. Please quit encouraging the use of this for pleasure performance boats. I have had to built closed lid boats for people against my wishes but had my client sign several pages of hold harmless agreements. This is a dangerous topic. Quit.

[PatriYacht]

I don't think anyone should be in a canopy boat without full time air, helmet with air mask. For the same reason that life jackets are designed to hold your head up when you come to the surface, you may be unconscious. How do you reach for a regulator when you are out cold?

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Even the helmets with full time air are not adequately tested. Who's to say it will stay on your face if water hits your face and twists your helmet around? You really need a Hanns devise and even then there are problems that have not been addressed.

Paint Guinea pigs and crash dummys on the boat so unsuspecting soles wont be mislead by the illusion of safety.

[TCEd]

Watching the NASCAR race at Talladega yesterday and seeing the Ryan Neuman crash made me think about this thread. I know it was a different type crash ( pavement vs. water)and different materials ( steel vs. composite) but it sure took a long time to get him out of that car and they had a lot of people and resources at the scene working to extract him.
Fortunatly he walked away, not sure what the results would have been for a similar time span with a boat in the water.
ed