Setback for Reggie?

[OldSchool]

WTF have you been? I figured you and Rob would have been out in force on this one! Craig nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree..... Chris's one liner about no one bashing Ciggy must have got me all fired up!

I've been around....and am waiting for the Fountain prices to bottom out. Then, I'm getting rid of my old, outdated, slow, ugly Top Gun and moving up to a Fountain!!

Seriously, start your own thread and get everything out that you've been holding in for all of these years. You'll feel better!!

[Offshoredrillin]

WTF have you been? I figured you and Rob would have been out in force on this one! Craig nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree..... Chris's one liner about no one bashing Ciggy must have got me all fired up!

Well being as you asked ... one person (you) bashing cig, doesn't constitute a majority, I do agree with a portion of your points as far as Cigs customer service, however the topic was derailed. now that being said, your comment on fountain/industry customer service is correct also in varying degrees, did that destroy fountain? I couldn't say, his followers and owners seem to be happy, however the company is still bankrupt, and no one except Reggie is to blame, hell he even admits he didn't save money. So what makes him thinks he has the right to own and drive a company that he took public and is now for sale to the highest bidder? arrogance, I would bet on that. why is he only remorseful when it is being taken away? where was his humility when he was spreading cat killer propaganda? where was his humility when he made a video and lied at Jammin' on the James?

Bottom line is any business out there perfect, should they try to be, yes, but reality and theory are different beasts.

Now as for me climbing all over it, Why? to do battle, nahh I know how you feel and actually you have been accepted here except when you go off half cocked and the facts aren't supporting, sometimes its not worth the effort for me to type a response...

[Indy]

I can't think for one minute someone would buy a boat because of who is in charge of the company. I would buy a boat because of price, quality and customer service.

Who do you think instills those qualities in a company...the gel sprayer? The interiors dude? It all starts at the top...ends there too.

[glh]

No amount of customer service is going to restore the relative ease (speed boat industry wise anyway), that financing was available a couple years back. As well as percentage of loan to value ratio WELL above the initial depriciation of those new boats coming out of the dealership. All lenders are taking it in the shorts relating to the residual value of the rigs they are repo'ing.

THAT will take a grand old while to restore my friends and all companies building boats will suffer.

No bank is going to forget what they are going through repo’ing and reselling these days, anytime soon.

[Sunsation96]

Who do you think instills those qualities in a company...the gel sprayer? The interiors dude? It all starts at the top...ends there too.

I see some of you point Yes it starts at the top but the gel sprayer does have a major effect on the outcome of the boat and the interior dude too.

[Matt Trulio]

A couple more observations, and take them for what they're worth (which could be nothing):

1. One of Braver's first moves after taking over was pulling Cigarette out of racing. Cigarette is still in business. Mr. Fountain himself, for whom I have great respect and admiration, has said on the record he wished he'd spent less on racing.

2. It's a fine line between "classic" and "dated." To my sense of aesthetics, Cigarette is classic—and blends contemporary elements. And I have no trouble telling an early model from a recent one.

3. Having put together more new-model previews than I care to remember, I can tell you that builders routinely make cosmetic tweaks to existing models and call them "new." Does a new windshield on an existing model make it new? No way. But how about a new deck? Does a new deck on an existing hull constitute a new model? Most boat builders would say it does if the deck tooling is completely new.

Sunsation, a company I think is fantastic, has done this often. Every deck Skater, a remarkable company, makes is a one-off—they don't have any deck tooling. So in a way every model they make is new, at least by that standard.

So Jupiter, when you write off the 39 Top Gun Unlimited as a "stretched" 38 you may be correct by your standards, but you're incorrect in terms of how the industry designates "new." You might not agree with the industry definition, but it is what it is.

[Magic Medicine]

Many interesting points.

One more, and then I'll step back and let this go back to being a Fountain.

Did you guys know there's a engraved plaque, with Wayne Schaldenbrand's freakin' cell phone number, on the newest Sunsation? And that he'll answer it if you call?

Not to say other builder's don't provide great customer service but ... having that kind of access to a boat company principal is remarkable.

Matt as far as Sunsation it has been that way since day 1. If you call the factory Mon-Sat at 6am either Wayne or Joe will pick up the phone. They will also treat a guy buying a used 20 year old 25 footer just as good as the owner of a new F4.

Agree on both points, this is one of many reason I am proud to be a Sunsation owner. It will be hard not to buy another when I am ready to upgrade, I just wish the 36' had been brought to mark a few years sooner so there would be a larger used inventory to choose from when I am ready to step up!

[db71]

glh is right and what some people have been saying for a while it doesn't matter if it does the dishes and laundry for you a boat is not an investment to make money it is a depreciating asset (maybe in some situations some depreciate less than others who knows) it is hard to get loans for them so that leaves cash customers or customers who could pay cash so the market is not as big as it once was and probably never will be again.

So all the customer service and the best quality and the company owners my best friend stuff will not make financing avaialable to most consumers so the demand will never be there again.

[Magicfloat]

Back on track of the original thread, http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5...ed-examination

[GENERAL LEE]

Back on track of the original thread, http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5...ed-examination

Thanks for the update



Just curious, are they continuing to finish boats as we speak, or are there going to be unfinished boats in this mess that someone has to deal with down the road? I'd hate to have a boat sitting at Fountain that's halfway done right now, especially if there's no dealer to help you with anything.

That happened at Cigarette back when it changed hands over & over, and a few customers simply got fcked. I remember Neill telling me he & a couple of others from the factory personally finished a few customer boats when the factory had closed down back in the early/mid 90's. Those customers were lucky!

[Offshoredrillin]

Back on track of the original thread, http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5...ed-examination

that could spell trouble for him, if they find any improprieties at all, or any collusion between Reggie and liberty, he can kiss it goodbye. Not to mention it could open up a can of worms, be careful what you wish for.

[Chris]

No bank is going to forget what they are going through repo’ing and reselling these days, anytime soon.

Unless you can un-invent greed and poor judgement, they'll be back here again. They were before.

Some politician will create a loophole and some banker will exploit it. His contemporaries will follow him right down the rabbit hole. They're working on it in hundreds of offices right this very moment

[Indy]

I see some of you point Yes it starts at the top but the gel sprayer does have a major effect on the outcome of the boat and the interior dude too.

You do The gel sprayer does what he is told, you either take your time or shoot it quick and move on to the next step. He is there because the owner put him there, or got rid of the previous geller because his work was substandard. Same with any other employee.

I hire skilled workers for my company...yes they have influence on the outcome because they've either proven themselves or are there because the previous worker got canned...that's my decision as owner and those decisions reflect the final quality of my product.

Same goes for financial responsibility...tons of business are out because of liberal spending practices, some are still around because they didn't get caught up in the hype and are weathering the storm. No question weather I'd rather have Skip or Reggie at the helm of my business. Skip took tons of flack for getting out of racing...much of it on these boards. I can remember tons of "why do they still call it Cigarette RACING?" threads going around at the time. Guess what...he's still here, Reggie's paying for it now.

[T2x]

I just read this whole thread.......I love it.

It touched on so many points about what is wrong with the industry today:

• Iconic "visionary" builders with more fans than common sense
• The proliferation of nearly identical "performance boat" brands with no real reason for existence
• The inevitable disastrous results of putting home appliances in high speed water craft
• The blind loyalty that occurs after one spends his money on a product....no matter how mediocre it may be
• The rampant inability of some to fully grasp the harsh realities of the financial markets and the tolling death knell this represents for the VAST majority of boat manufacturers (This is only the tip of the iceberg)
• The persistent notion that a redesign of graphics, a little slight of hand with a deck mold, and a new model name can somehow become a "Revolutionary change".
• The idiotic notion that a businessman can be bigger than his product....and/or his company's finances

T2x

[Magicfloat]

Tomorrow at 9:30 AM should be a very interesting meeting/hearing/auction/whatever. Stay tuned.

[Magic Medicine]

You do The gel sprayer does what he is told, you either take your time or shoot it quick and move on to the next step. He is there because the owner put him there, or got rid of the previous geller because his work was substandard. Same with any other employee.

I hire skilled workers for my company...yes they have influence on the outcome because they've either proven themselves or are there because the previous worker got canned...that's my decision as owner and those decisions reflect the final quality of my product.

Same goes for financial responsibility...tons of business are out because of liberal spending practices, some are still around because they didn't get caught up in the hype and are weathering the storm. No question weather I'd rather have Skip or Reggie at the helm of my business. Skip took tons of flack for getting out of racing...much of it on these boards. I can remember tons of "why do they still call it Cigarette RACING?" threads going around at the time. Guess what...he's still here, Reggie's paying for it now.

Work Ethic, pride, recognition, liking what you are doing and who you are working for have alot to do with it too in my opinion.

[JupiterSunsation]

I just read this whole thread.......I love it.

It touched on so many points about what is wrong with the industry today:

• Iconic "visionary" builders with more fans than common sense
• The proliferation of nearly identical "performance boat" brands with no real reason for existence
• The inevitable disastrous results of putting home appliances in high speed water craft
• The blind loyalty that occurs after one spends his money on a product....no matter how mediocre it may be
• The rampant inability of some to fully grasp the harsh realities of the financial markets and the tolling death knell this represents for the VAST majority of boat manufacturers (This is only the tip of the iceberg)
• The persistent notion that a redesign of graphics, a little slight of hand with a deck mold, and a new model name can somehow become a "Revolutionary change".
• The idiotic notion that a businessman can be bigger than his product....and/or his company's finances

T2x

+1 - One of the most prolific posts I have ever read.....

[Ratickle]

I just read this whole thread.......I love it.

It touched on so many points about what is wrong with the industry today:

• Iconic "visionary" builders with more fans than common sense
• The proliferation of nearly identical "performance boat" brands with no real reason for existence
• The inevitable disastrous results of putting home appliances in high speed water craft
• The blind loyalty that occurs after one spends his money on a product....no matter how mediocre it may be
• The rampant inability of some to fully grasp the harsh realities of the financial markets and the tolling death knell this represents for the VAST majority of boat manufacturers (This is only the tip of the iceberg)
• The persistent notion that a redesign of graphics, a little slight of hand with a deck mold, and a new model name can somehow become a "Revolutionary change".
• The idiotic notion that a businessman can be bigger than his product....and/or his company's finances

T2x

Ahhh Rich, just love your way with words.......

I do think you're right on builders though. Only the best will come out of this long term, and some of them may go into building something other than boats......It is not a good situation.

[GENERAL LEE]

Skip took tons of flack for getting out of racing...much of it on these boards. I can remember tons of "why do they still call it Cigarette RACING?" threads going around at the time. Guess what...he's still here, Reggie's paying for it now.

Haha, TONS of flack!

Sooo many self described "experts" back then, have been eating truckloads of crow for years after scrutinizing Skip for abandoning the (lack of) "business model" that plagued Cigarette for most of it's time as a company. I love it! :nopity::smilielol5:

[Sunsation96]

Work Ethic, pride, recognition, liking what you are doing and who you are working for have alot to do with it too in my opinion.

I agree that was my point! It is huge if you like what you are doing you work will show