Setback for Reggie?

[Magicfloat]

Chris,I understand what you are saying,and also catch the sarcasm.Reggie is not Don,neither is Skip. Difference is,Don created a lifestyle and a legacy.Reggie took a Bill Farmer Excalibur and continued to tweak it with Darris's help until he had an amazingly fast boat. Nothing more,nothing less. Cig will continue with or without Skip,lots of depth in the Cig name. Fountain has no depth,but they have Reggie,who has kept Fountain in the spotlight for 25 years. Without Reggie,they are just another boat company. Good luck,Oxford,without Reggie,you will need it.

[Offshoredrillin]

All of this begs the question " What is Fountain without Reggie? He built the company,ran the company,he was the company.Without him,what does Oxford have?Would you buy a new Fountain if Reggie was not involved? I think the suits at Oxford have no idea what they are dealing with.

I think they would do just fine, like Ferrari has now that Enzo is gone, Porsche since Ferry is gone, and Lamborghini as well. I think it would be good to run the business as a business and not his personal hobby. I like the boats, I just dont like the buffoon and his kids that run it. I wouldn't own a fountain because of Reggie, but I sure wouldn't buy one because of him.

[Chris]

Chris,I understand what you are saying,and also catch the sarcasm.Reggie is not Don,neither is Skip. Difference is,Don created a lifestyle and a legacy.Reggie took a Bill Farmer Excalibur and continued to tweak it with Darris's help until he had an amazingly fast boat. Nothing more,nothing less. Cig will continue with or without Skip,lots of depth in the Cig name. Fountain has no depth,but they have Reggie,who has kept Fountain in the spotlight for 25 years. Without Reggie,they are just another boat company. Good luck,Oxford,without Reggie,you will need it.

I see your point, but the sword has two edges. There's a reason there are so many Fountain bashers. Ironically, there are a scant few Cigarette bashers. There are people out there that wouldn't consider owning one simply because of the Reggie act. Plus, while it can certainly be argued that he's been on the leading edge of product development, his construction quality has slipped over the last years. His drive to be the biggest has cost him, ultimately putting him in the position he's in. Growth for growth's sake is a classic business mistake. Going public was his first step in the wrong direction.

[TCEd]

I can see Reggie as a Sunday night cable TV evangelist in a couple years. He's got the hair and his logo could be " a jumpsuit for Jesus ".

ed

[Slandrew]

I see your point, but the sword has two edges. There's a reason there are so many Fountain bashers. Ironically, there are a scant few Cigarette bashers. There are people out there that wouldn't consider owning one simply because of the Reggie act. Plus, while it can certainly be argued that he's been on the leading edge of product development, his construction quality has slipped over the last years. His drive to be the biggest has cost him, ultimately putting him in the position he's in. Growth for growth's sake is a classic business mistake. Going public was his first step in the wrong direction.

Scant few???Please they are all blow hards with the fastest V crap!Hope someone keeps it a float!End of story

[Matt Trulio]

I realize this is a Fountain thread but:

No one, for a second, should underestimate the positive effect Skip Braver has had on Cigarette. A new factory, several successful new models and whole lot more. Not all of the company's moves under Braver have been winners, as he would be the first to tell you. But on the whole, Cigarette, despite the recession, is in the best shape it's been ... probably since Don Aronow founded it.

Yes, Cigarette would likely go on without him. But Cigarette had a few owners between Aronow and Braver, and none has had Braver's impact. Not even close.

[Chris]

I can't say that I've ever heard anyone saying anything truly negative about the Cigarette brand. Some Skip jokes? Maybe.

[LEOPAJM]

Ya know guys ..... Cigarette is by far the strongest brand of all the sport boats .... And when ya look at where they are today .... really has very little to do with Don Aronow ( no disrespect ) . The guys that are really into the heritage of all these toys might still point to Don .... But I bet most of the Cig owners today have been influenced by more "current" carriers of the torch so to speak ...

[Chris]

It's funny to see boats for sale as "Don Aronow's personal boat" when they were built during years that Don didn't own the company.

[Matt Trulio]

Yeah, Chris. That is pretty interesting.

[OldSchool]

I realize this is a Fountain thread but:

No one, for a second, should underestimate the positive effect Skip Braver has had on Cigarette. A new factory, several successful new models and whole lot more. Not all of the company's moves under Braver have been winners, as he would be the first to tell you. But on the whole, Cigarette, despite the recession, is in the best shape it's been ... probably since Don Aronow founded it.

Yes, Cigarette would likely go on without him. But Cigarette had a few owners between Aronow and Braver, and none has had Braver's impact. Not even close.

I can't say that I've ever heard anyone saying anything truly negative about the Cigarette brand. Some Skip jokes? Maybe.

Ya know guys ..... Cigarette is by far the strongest brand of all the sport boats .... And when ya look at where they are today .... really has very little to do with Don Aronow ( no disrespect ) . The guys that are really into the heritage of all these toys might still point to Don .... But I bet most of the Cig owners today have been influenced by more "current" carriers of the torch so to speak ...

That's all great guys......but let's get back to the Fountain bashing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GENERAL LEE]

Plus, while it can certainly be argued that he's been on the leading edge of product development, his construction quality has slipped over the last years.

This is the view I keep coming back to. I really feel like whoever ends up with the company has the chance to rally it back better than they've ever been?

With more current, solid construction tecniques, a MAJOR overhaul to their interior, and other various rigging & finishing improvements, those boats could be SOOO much nicer than they have been in the past.

There's nothing wrong with their designs at all, both visually & obviously technically. I've just always thought from the rubrail up, the quality seemed to fall off dramatically. They are the ultimate Vee bottom raceboat, where you obviously don't need an interior & amenities. If they just put more effort into finishing out their pleasure boats, I think sales could only go up.

A 42 Poker Run model, with no rubrail and an OL/Cigarette/NT/etc quality interior would be a stunner. They already have the hardest part behind them, with having already dialed in their hull designs to near perfection.

If the new company can produce these changes, and assuming they can do it within their own budget they set, Fountain could make a huge comeback.

[Offshoredrillin]

This is the view I keep coming back to. I really feel like whoever ends up with the company has the chance to rally it back better than they've ever been?

With more current, solid construction tecniques, a MAJOR overhaul to their interior, and other various rigging & finishing improvements, those boats could be SOOO much nicer than they have been in the past.

There's nothing wrong with their designs at all, both visually & obviously technically. I've just always thought from the rubrail up, the quality seemed to fall off dramatically. They are the ultimate Vee bottom raceboat, where you obviously don't need an interior & amenities. If they just put more effort into finishing out their pleasure boats, I think sales could only go up.

A 42 Poker Run model, with no rubrail and an OL/Cigarette/NT/etc quality interior would be a stunner. They already have the hardest part behind them, with having already dialed in their hull designs to near perfection.

If the new company can produce these changes, and assuming they can do it within their own budget they set, Fountain could make a huge comeback.

that was sort of my point as well, its not about the boats to me as much as it is the owner, I say debeak them as well, that's played out imho.

[Wrinkleface]

I say debeak them as well, that's played out imho.

They have, it's called a Baja!!!!!

[TCEd]

I could see Fountain returning as only a fishboat build. Their C.C's do well in that market. Also see them getting out of the cruiser market.
ed

[Davidmnc]

that was sort of my point as well, its not about the boats to me as much as it is the owner, I say debeak them as well, that's played out imho.

I think it would be a mistake to debeak them. It's the Fountain signature. Not every one likes the beak, but when you see a Fountain there is no question it's a Fountain. Take the beak off and it's just another one of those "cigar boats" IMHO

[Offshoredrillin]

I think it would be a mistake to debeak them. It's the Fountain signature. Not every one likes the beak, but when you see a Fountain there is no question it's a Fountain. Take the beak off and it's just another one of those "cigar boats" IMHO

you can pick out a gremlin and a pacer from quite a distance as well...

[Magicfloat]

I don't care who you are,that's funny

[Slandrew]

I can't say that I've ever heard anyone saying anything truly negative about the Cigarette brand. Some Skip jokes? Maybe.

OK you want negative how bout 2007 39 gas fumes!1988 31 bullett another bomb!20' you have to drive it yea in a lake! 38 Top gun can't sell late model!Gladiators spinning not just 1 either!Putting R&D into bieng the fastest V and failing!!So keep Fountain bashing it's because this site is about fast boats and they are not!

[JupiterSunsation]

Cigarette has the award for most recognizable brand. Like McDonalds, Xerox and Coca Cola. Very few people worldwide (civilized nations) can say they don't know what a Cigarette boat is.

That being said, the 39 Top Fish can be seen as a crossover boat, it really isn't for fishing. The cruiser line was a bad idea, hence discontinued 55. Skip sells more t-shirts than anyone, the boats are sold worldwide but he is lacking in new models/designs. The Kilo boat was a flop, the Gladiator cost too much to make and the Marauder was simply a stretched 46. Skip needs to create a new hull to bring the line into the next century. You can't ride another 20 years on the back of the Top Gun, even after 700 boats they need to do an update. I think a smaller 30-35 boat needs to be put back in the line-up. Skip will probably have to address the pricing issue, you can't get "all the money" for an old design anymore. I suspect they haven't produced 25 boats in 2009....Dealers still have new 2008/2009 inventory! Slow sales will definitely prevent dealers from "floorplanning" new models. In general the manufacturers will sell direct without the use of the dealer networks seen in year's past. The dealers add expense to the product and can disrupt the flow of production. Dealers were great for floorplanning inventory but if they aren't willing to do that then they are not necessary.

Outerlimits and Nortech have both introduced several new models in both cat and V bottom forms. Fountain is stuck in an identity rut, are we race boats, pleasure boats, fish boats or cruisers? They need to thin the line-up and update the product line. Hustler, Donzi, Formula (performance boats, not cruisers) and others will probably fall by the wayside like Black Thunder and Baja.

New models/prices are the way to entice folks back into the boat buying mode......