Offshore racing? Offshore or beachside?

[Ratickle]

Is it a race or a show?

I think the sooner it's realized that it's both to bring in fans and money. The sooner the ressurection of Offshore will occur.

On a longer course a boat length or two lead can change from leg to leg.
The race is not decided by the position your in at the first turn.

That's a good thing. I was referring to the two or three boats in a class and after one lap, or 1/2 lap, they are a few hundred yards apart or only one boat left running.

That is why SV in OPA is a great class.

[phragle]

opa SV is good...but we need to have a pool every race...who will spin, what lap and what corner, with a progressive pot......

[DAREDEVIL]

opa SV is good...but we need to have a pool every race...who will spin, what lap and what corner, with a progressive pot......

My bet is 99% on WAHOO !!! LOL

2nd turn 3rd lap.

[phragle]

see..you have a growing class wth parity and can generate enough interest for side bets, the colorfull Dr. Spin,Louies perpetual grins... multiple racers pushin there boats to the edge and beyond etc.... the development of racing with interest...... albeit in babysteps but progress....There are a few other boats that would fit that class, i we could get them together and 7~10 boats banging rubrails where any given boat could win and any given boat can spin......

[Sean Stinson]

I voted for the Mix but Really would´ve like to have True offshore but thenagain close racing is good too.

I am with you my friend but I also think it should be run as 2 seperate races!!!

[phragle]

as far a TV... TV doesnt care about people on the beach, they care about people on the couch. the way races are now...would the avg joe rather watch a few spread out boats motoring along on flat water, or the helicpter coverage of couple boats bashing it out airborne and sideways?

[Pete B]

The bottom line is you need racers, That 1. want competition. 2. can be as graceful in defeat as in victory. 3. feel they have the same chance to win as their competitor's. 4. not pout or take their ball if it doesnt go their way.

Once that is established, the venue need to challenge both machine and occupants,
Open ocean and closed course type racing.

Then the fans need to be able to understand what is going on.

[Ratickle]

The bottom line is you need racers, That 1. want competition. 2. can be as graceful in defeat as in victory. 3. feel they have the same chance to win as their competitor's. 4. not pout or take their ball if it doesnt go their way.

Once that is established, the venue need to challenge both machine and occupants,
Open ocean and closed course type racing.

Then the fans need to be able to understand what is going on.

Well said Pete.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Pete is our Senior Field Correspondent

[smokeybandit]

Jim,

I checked out your website. I didn't realize you raced Joker, and beat K&K! Most that don't know the history of offshore don't realize how big an accomplishment that is. Looking back at all the boats you raced, which was the most challenging? Another question. I never raced short course circle races. Is there more skill involved in offshore racing or circle racing?

Robert

[lee austin]

For the fans you could srart by renameing it to inshore racing. you wouldnt run and add for chev. and when the man gets there give him a ford. you dont go to the drags to see open wheels race nor do you go to the Ind 500 to see the drags. its called OFFSRORE! for you land lovers thats not 500 yards off the beach. Lee

[Ratickle]

Jimbo never brags or shows off his accomplishments. Not even when I push him.

If you both make Key West, make sure you take the time to chat. And especially if Martin's around too....

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Robert I crewed and cared for Joker. Art Lilly and Stoney ran it. Yes I remember well the day in Bay City they beat the boys.. Their old man was ****ed. They had to run the **** out of it to beat them. Plus they used to race 110 miles or so.

To answer your question about circle racing..I will try.. It is so different. The race is most often decided at the moment the first boat initiates turn one. Who has position at that moment.

When you try to explain how different it is to people that haven't experienced it. I always am reminded of the same thing. Try to explain to your kids these days that phones used to be tethered to the wall with wires. What is the look in their eyes? They can't even comprehend.

Factory2 was the most challenging. We used to race 80 miles an courses with 10 plus mile laps. I started racing just after the course started getting so short. I crewed and rigged boats for 10 years before that. Those days the races were always 100 miles or more. Some classes as much as 150 miles.

Everything now is a "drivers course" It used to be the throttle man was more important.
It used to be an endurance race .They are all sprint races now by comparison.

[1waterboy1]

theres not enough boats on the course to make a beach front race exciting. If you send them offshore, the fans will get bored after a drink or 2 and forget there is a race goin on. The more time that lapses without some kind of close racing, the more fans become disinterested. Just my perspective

I agree with you Bruce.Even with the short courses of today,there is way too much down time because there just arent enough boats.The two race format is not good either...10-20 boats on a four mile course is boring for the fans.I remember having 60-80 boats in 8 or 9 classes all on the course at the same time.The courses were longer;but not too long, and so was the mileage that each class ran.I found that format to be more exciting both as a racer and a fan.These races were definately not won at the first turn,and just finishing all of your laps was an accomplishment and usually resulted in a good finish.Longer races in ocean conditions also leveled the playing field;as top spped more often than not was not the real key to winning a race.Many boats parading out the inlet and the mass starts;sometimes multiple classes in the same start, were a real rush for the racers and the fans too.And with so many boats out on the course at once,there was little down time;and most of the fans stayed for the entire race which usually lasted two hours or so.Something to think about.

[DAREDEVIL]

Robert I crewed and cared for Joker. Art Lilly and Stoney ran it. Yes I remember well the day in Bay City they beat the boys.. Their old man was ****ed. They had to run the **** out of it to beat them. Plus they used to race 110 miles or so.

To answer your question about circle racing..I will try.. It is so different. The race is most often decided at the moment the first boat initiates turn one. Who has position at that moment.

When you try to explain how different it is to people that haven't experienced it. I always am reminded of the same thing. Try to explain to your kids these days that phones used to be tethered to the wall with wires. What is the look in their eyes? They can't even comprehend.

Factory2 was the most challenging. We used to race 80 miles an courses with 10 plus mile laps. I started racing just after the course started getting so short. I crewed and rigged boats for 10 years before that. Those days the races were always 100 miles or more. Some classes as much as 150 miles.

Everything now is a "drivers course" It used to be the throttle man was more important.
It used to be an endurance race .They are all sprint races now by comparison.

Morning,,,,well said Jim.

The thing is ,,i think the fans changed too.
Even tough some of them don't understand whats going on ,,they whant to see it.
Thats why i think the real long coarses are OUT !!!!
Would i like to do them,,,yes,,,i think every racer would. But its what the sponsor and fans whant.
Back then it was a racers venue and who had the biggest cohonas,,,now its what it is.
Smokey, u should jump in a boat and try it,,then u would see if it still is a kick or not.
To me ,,,i like it ,,because its better then running around out there with no rules and so on,,it still gives u a kick and some parts even on the short coarses are tricky and get dangerous,,,so a race is a race.
Follow the rules and have fun.
Just my 2 cents

[Dunbar 104]

Yeah I have become bored with the short courses. Every race is won in the first corner.

I do like what P1 does short close to shore race on Saturday, and longer course on Sunday.

As far a Fans. The ones that pay attention like the dry pits as much as anything, race day is really just a reason to go out and drink.

I am to a point where I would rather race 2 days, Saturday and Sunday 4 times a year vs 10 times a year on a short course that is won in the first corner. I am not going to travel 14 hours anymore for a 35 minute boat ride.

[Ratickle]

Goofy thought. What if there were boats used as wave makers on the inland and short courses? Like at LOTO last week. A couple of 50 footers at each end doing power donuts. Would that make it closer to a race for the entire time?

[smokeybandit]

Could you enter an Unlimited Hydro in an offshore race in the turbine class? Would the rules prohibit this? Looking at the conditions of these races, it seems that a hydro would be able to get around these courses. Is there a rule that says you must have 2 people minimum in a boat? I wonder how these boats would compete against each other.

[smokeybandit]

Goofy thought. What if there were boats used as wave makers on the inland and short courses? Like at LOTO last week. A couple of 50 footers at each end doing power donuts. Would that make it closer to a race for the entire time?

No. Very different than open ocean conditions. That's more like surface chop than waves. Similar to the Barnegat Bay races versus the Benihana. When it's choppy the t-man doesn't really get a rhythm going. In my opinion there is no greater talent in racing tha a t-man who's got his ryhthm going in decent size ocean swells. It's a skill I don't have. But I can't dance either. I can drive, I can navigate, but I'm mediocre at best when it comes to throttles. Offshore racing is a t-mans game.

[Ratickle]

No. Very different than open ocean conditions. That's more like surface chop than waves. Similar to the Barnegat Bay races versus the Benihana. When it's choppy the t-man doesn't really get a rhythm going. In my opinion there is no greater talent in racing tha a t-man who's got his ryhthm going in decent size ocean swells. It's a skill I don't have. But I can't dance either. I can drive, I can navigate, but I'm mediocre at best when it comes to throttles. Offshore racing is a t-mans game.

I wasn't talking about duplicating offshore conditions. I was talking about making it so the first boat to the first corner wasn't the winner unless they broke.