Mike Vorce West Michigans National Marine

[boatme]

I actualy worked for this guy for 5 months

He is finaly going away I hope


West Michigan boat broker Michael Vorce indicted on bank fraud by federal grand jury
by Chris Knape | The Grand Rapids Press
Thursday November 06, 2008, 2:27 PM
Michael Vorce
GRAND RAPIDS -- West Michigan boat broker Michael Vorce was indicted by a federal grand jury this afternoon on 15 counts ranging from bank fraud to using a false identity to open bank accounts.
The 24-page indictment alleges Vorce fraudulently obtained more than $27 million from 10 lenders, most in the Grand Rapids area.
The indictment marks the first time Vorce, 32, has faced criminal charges related to loans taken out at the banks using bogus collateral and fraudulent title work.
RELATED RESOURCE
Read the indictment against Michael Vorce
The alleged fraud touched many West Michigan financial institutions.
The largest loans were $9.2 million by Holland-based Macatawa Bank, $8.6 million by the Grandville branch of Irwin Union Financial and $4.7 million by Lake Michigan Credit Union, based in Grand Rapids.
Vorce has been locked in a Milwaukee jail since late August when he and friend James Jett, a Byron Township resident, were arrested near Chicago. They are charged with attempting to defraud a bank and stealing the identity of a Milwaukee-area attorney as part of another apparent boat loan scheme.
A Press investigation in 2007 found a trail of paperwork showing how Vorce used bogus paperwork to secure titles for boats he didn't own or that did not exist. He used those titles as collateral to borrow millions of dollars from banks.
Vorce apologized to the banks which had seized and auctioned his assets. Many sued him in civil court, but he was not charged criminally in West Michigan until today. He was living in a gated mansion in Alpine Township until his Chicago arrest.
The arrest occurred despite Vorce's apparent cooperation with law enforcement in the West Michigan case. Court records in Milwaukee indicate the case that led to his arrest was part of a larger, multi-state fraud case.
That arrest occurred despite Vorce knowing he was being watched by law enforcement officers in West Michigan as their investigation into his loan activity here dragged on.

Click here to see indictment

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/news_impact/2008/11/Vorceindict.pdf

[Wrinkleface]

I know Rick is REAL happy w/ him!!!!!!!

[inbetween]

What's wrong with people? Do they think they can get away with this crap?

[J-Bonz]

WOW, I remember hearing about that in Milwaukee a few months ago..........

[Twin27Advantage]

Marc, you ready to have a party? Its about time huh? This should provide us some good chat :sifone: Maybe his girlfriend will finally realize he did do it again.

The great thing about two cases in different states is a plea won't be as easy since they both wan't him. Get ready Mikey your gonna need to scam some stock in K Y jelly :ack2:


Ha Ha:leaving: :rofl:

[boatme]

Todd,

This will be one court drama i for one will go watch (at least part of it )

we should get a bus together and load up all the locals he screwed and go to his prelim hearing :)

Having him turn around and see all the faces of former friends and bussiness associates that he put the hurt on would be priceless

Yea its not over they haven even started the indightments on the milwaukee stuff yet

[boatme]

I know Rick is REAL happy w/ him!!!!!!!

Tracy,

Rick who???? You talking about Rick D ???

[boatme]

I have this guy on Google alerts

Everytime his name pops up on the internet it alerts me

Man oh man how would you like somone to google your name and watch the screen light up with "fraud,thief,identity theft,scammer" You watch even if he goes to prison the day he gets out he will do it again He cant help himself

[boatme]

Todd,

Did you read the indictments? he got a $200,000 loan on a non existant boat one morning and that day spent over $20,000 on cloths at a local mens shop
This guy is a real idiot They just tracked his checking accout. Proves what a dipstick he is

[Buckman_4]

Seems West Michigan has two of thease, google the torco guy oncew and you get a little different story but its along the same lines
Ed

[SkaterGirl]

Such BS how many people were affected by this. One of my friends worked for James Jett at his salon downtown GR. When the incident in WI happened the employees were given about an hour to get out of the salon with their belongings in hand - no last paychecks or anything. It really set all of those employees up for a hard loss!

[Twin27Advantage]

Marc, should be interesting to see what gets pulled from his parents in the forfeiture. His girlfriend who likely still stands in his corner will probably lose some stuff to. Remember when she defended him to the press saying " he would'nt do this to us again" :rofl:

The 20k worth of clothes shows how much of a :ack2: douche he is. That was count 13 of the indictment.


Cant remember if your link worked or not but here is the pdf. of the indictment:
http://woodtv.triton.net/news/michaelvorceindictment/document.pdf

[Wrinkleface]

Tracy,

Rick who???? You talking about Rick D ???

yup

[boatme]

Latest Update


Michael Vorce will return to Michigan to face fraud charges
by Nate Reens | The Grand Rapids Press
Wednesday December 17, 2008, 10:45 PM

Michael Vorce

James JettMILWAUKEE — A fan of yachts, Michael Vorce and his associate, James Jett, apparently also saw value in pure gold.

Federal prosecutors in Wisconsin allege the West Michigan friends bought and sold the metal to launder about $3.5 million in cash they fraudulently obtained while applying for loans tied to purported boat purchases.

In a criminal information filed Wednesday against Jett, authorities accuse the 30-year-old Byron Township man of participating in a scheme with Vorce to steal the identity of people "likely to qualify for large loans and to engage in large financial transactions."

Authorities filed the information, which typically leads to a guilty plea without an indictment, against Jett on the same day they dismissed pending criminal allegations against Vorce, 32.

Vorce, upon a judge's approval, will return to Michigan to face charges here that allege he swindled up to $27 million from 15 banks between 2002 and 2007. The Milwaukee-based accusations against Vorce can be refiled at a later date, prosecutors said.




Court documents offer a glimpse of the web of fraud allegedly spun by Vorce, even as the Alpine Township man was under investigation locally and his possessions were auctioned off to repay millions lost by banks in bad loans to him.

Prosecutors say Jett, who will remain jailed in Wisconsin, and Vorce used an online service to obtain credit files and then open bank accounts in victims' names. The pair also purchased cell phones and set up e-mail addresses in those names so they could communicate with lenders, records show.

Records allege the suspects then applied for nearly $5 million in loans for yacht purchases using the various victims as both the buyer and the seller.

One of the alleged bad loans was for $391,450 in the name of Michael Berzowski, a Milwaukee lawyer. Jett and Vorce were arrested in August outside a Chicago bank where they allegedly arranged to pick up loan documents from Bank of the West.

"(They) typically used the loan proceeds to buy gold. They typically sold the gold immediately upon obtaining it," court records show. "The purpose of the gold transactions was to conceal (Vorce) and Jett's ownership and control of the loan proceeds."

Among the banks the men allegedly duped was Wachovia Bank, which agreed to loan the suspects $885,000 about the same time the institution was obtaining a judgment against Vorce for an unpaid loan for $294,000.

Authorities in both Wisconsin and Michigan have described the cases as incredibly complex.

It took local prosecutors nearly two years to unravel 80 loans Vorce allegedly illegally obtained. He faces 10 counts of financial institution fraud, three charges of money laundering, one count of wire fraud and one count of aggravated identity theft here.

Jett has not been implicated in the local allegations, but Vorce was trying to sell Jett his Alpine Township house when Bank of America foreclosed on the residence.

[boatme]

The dipstick is famous LOL


Grand Rapids Press Names

West Michigan's top newsmaker for 2008


“The winner of the house might find a boat via the auction block, too. Michael Vorce made headlines for the second year in a row for alleged fraudulent titles on boats. In 2007, Vorce was arrested for securing millions of dollars in loans on high-end yachts that didn't exist or he did not own. The feds were still investigating that case when he was arrested again this past August for another boat loan that didn't float.”

[Ratickle]

The dipstick is famous LOL


Grand Rapids Press Names

West Michigan's top newsmaker for 2008


“The winner of the house might find a boat via the auction block, too. Michael Vorce made headlines for the second year in a row for alleged fraudulent titles on boats. In 2007, Vorce was arrested for securing millions of dollars in loans on high-end yachts that didn't exist or he did not own. The feds were still investigating that case when he was arrested again this past August for another boat loan that didn't float.”

He'll probably teach classes on this crap in jail.

[BGIII]

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/05/michael_vorce_charged_with_fai.html

[Ratickle]

Thanks Bill. At least they keep stacking up against him......

[MarylandMark]

What's wrong with people? Do they think they can get away with this crap?

Most of the time it seems like they do... Which sucks!

[BGIII]

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/06/michael_vorce_to_plead_guilty.html

Michael Vorce to plead guilty to combined Michigan, Wisconsin fraud charges, attorney says
by The Grand Rapids Press
Tuesday June 02, 2009, 4:10 AM
GRAND RAPIDS -- Michael Vorce, who faces fraud charges in two states in a scheme to buy yachts and gold, has indicated he will plead guilty and avoid trial.


Michael VorceAccording to wire and broadcast reports, Vorce's lawyer said his client intends to plead guilty to criminal charges in West Michigan and Wisconsin instead of going to trial.

Vorce, 32, of Grand Rapids, and an accomplice, Byron Township resident James Jett, are accused of lying to banks in Michigan and Wisconsin to get millions in loans, including $9.2 million from Holland-based Macatawa Bank.

The scheme also involves allegations of identity theft. Assistant U.S. Attorney Tim VerHey recently added a tax charge against Vorce.

U.S. District Judge Robert Holmes Bell has set the next court hearing for June 23 in Grand Rapids.

On March 18, VerHey signaled a guilty plea was possible when he asked the court to adjourn a hearing for Vorce.

"The government and the defendant have agreed that these charges will be resolved by a guilty plea," VerHey wrote.

[rschap1]

Wonder if he'll even see jail?

[Ratickle]

Vorce, and an accomplice, James Jett, are accused of lying to banks.

The scheme also involves allegations of identity theft.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Tim VerHey recently added a tax charge against Vorce.




Wonder if he'll even see jail?

My guess, with these charges, he'll get appointed to Obama's cabinet. Fits right in.....

[boatme]

Vorce to enter plea in
court Thursday
Details of plea deal available
Wednesday
Updated: Wednesday, 17 Jun 2009, 5:11 PM EDT
Published : Wednesday, 17 Jun 2009, 5:11 PM EDT

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - Details from the plea deal Michael Vorce signed with the feds became available Wednesday. He will appear in court Thursday to enter the plea.

Vorce, 31, of Grand Rapids, signed the agreement June 1 that allows the bank fraud case against him in Wisconsin to be transferred to West Michigan.

He and James Jett were accused of bank fraud in 2008 for a scheme to use false information to obtain bank loans to purchase yachts that didn't exist, and then used the proceeds to buy and sell gold to cover their involvement in the bank fraud.

The 10-page agreement allows Vorce to plead guilty to two counts of bank fraud, one of those cases from Wisconsin. He also agrees to plead guilty to money laundering and to, "...failing to file an income tax return after accruing a gross income of $11,311,491.65 for the year 2006."

Originally, he was charged with 10 counts of bank fraud, three counts of money laundering, aggravated identity theft, wire fraud and failing to file an income tax return.

He used fake names and titles of phantom boats to acquire millions of dollars in fraudulent loans from area banks.

The maximum sentence just for the bank fraud is 30 years in federal prison and a $1 million fine.

Vorce faces two of those sentences. In addition, he faces up to 10 years on the money laundering charge and one year on the failure to file an income tax return. In total, he could serve up to 71 years in federal prison.

As part of the plea agreement, all of the other charges against Vorce will be dropped and he may be eligible for a reduction in his sentence if the court agrees to it at the time of sentencing. All of this is up to the federal judge hearing the case.

[BUIZILLA]

failing to file an income tax return after accruing a gross income of $11,311,491.65 for the year 2006."

one year on the failure to file an income tax return. almost worth doing a year to pocket 11 mil later on... :26:

[MarylandMark]

almost worth doing a year to pocket 11 mil later on... :26:

I was thinking the same thing but the 71 years for the other stuff it took to make that $11M makes me nervous.

[Mrhorsepower1]

That is amazing......... some people just want the easy way out, that got him real far.......didn't it!!? :03:

[boatme]

I worked for this guy for a few months. I could write a book on just my involvement with him. I saw some things coming (not to this extent) and I still have all the bank records from the Marina I was Managing for him (I started taking them home because I was smelling a rat) This clown is getting what he deserves, I feel bad for his parents (Both retired school principals) I drive by their condo complex here almost every day and wonder how they are handling all this

This describes Mike

1) Smooth – absolutely, some of the stuff he did took a lot of balls and he screwed
many companies, as well as his friends, and even his family right up until the very end
very few people had a clue on what a fake he was
2) Smart In a dumb kind of way - He dressed and acted the part of a high roller and
schmoozed a lot of very intelligent people but it left many people saying "something
is just not right here"
3) Dumb in a Smart kind of way - After being caught the first and second times, and
while the feds were building their case against him, Mike stole an identity in another
state and got away with the first identity fraud but got caught after he frauded the
same lending institution a second time. This was the nail that put him away
4) Arrogant - It’s what got him in trouble! He thought he was untouchable and acted that way
5) Immature - At times he acted like a kid, and made decisions based on being a spoiled brat There were times I would call him in to work on some business issues that needed his attention . Mike would show up, get on a lawn tractor, move dirt around for a few hours, and leave without ever addressing the business issues he was supposed to be at the facility to work on. He acted like a little kid on his toy

Mike is much of the reason Saber Marine finally stopped building boats (He got involved and then failed his commitments)

This guy weaseled his way into all kinds of activity with promises and a little bit of cash and a whole lot of flash. He charmed his way into many things but it all caught up with him
Would be great to see this dipstick go away a long time but I fear he will do 10 to 15 total in a white color jail honing his skills for when he gets out. News this morning said he is back in court today.

More updates as they happen

[ChiefApache]

Mike is much of the reason Saber Marine finally stopped building boats (He got involved and then failed his commitments)

I did not know this. Interesting and sad all at the same time.

[boatme]

I did not know this. Interesting and sad all at the same time.


Not all of the reason but a big part

he made dirty everything he touched

[boatme]

Michael Vorce pleads guilty to four charges involving $27 million in bank fraud
by John Tunison | The Grand Rapids Press
Thursday June 18, 2009, 5:53 PM
Michael Vorce
GRAND RAPIDS -- As he pleaded guilty today to four charges involving a $27 million fraud against banks, Michael Vorce began to tear up.

Vorce, 32, described how he continued to fraudulently obtain loans for non-existent boats, this time in Chicago, after West Michigan banks caught onto him last year and seized his credit lines.

"When everything that I had known, the money and things, when that went away, I fell back into the selfish needs to pursue money," he told U.S. District Court Judge Robert Holmes Bell. "At the time I was so morally corrupt, so misguided, trying to maintain the duality of what I thought was important, what I thought was me," he said.

BY THE NUMBERS
17: Number of fraud-related charges Vorce faced

4: Number he admitted to Thursday

$27 million: Amount Vorce bilked from 10 banks

$11.3 million: Vorce's unreported gross income in 2006

2: Biggest victims, Macatawa Bank ($9.2 million) and Irwin Union, ($8.6 million)

71: Maximum years in prison for bank fraud

Source: Federal prosecutors


Vorce could face more than 70 years in prison when sentenced Sept. 18 in what he described himself today as a Ponzi scheme. He duped several banks, including $9.2 million from Macatawa Bank, into giving him yacht loans.

Bell seemed incredulous that some banks last year gave loans without a loan officer ever having a face-to-face meeting with Vorce. Vorce described how he used the Internet to obtain loans, the first one for about $200,000, but later for $700,000 and $800,000.

Vorce said he spoke on the phone with a loan officer, but never met anyone in person.

He told how he and James Jett, an accomplice, were "successful in receiving a large amount of money in a short period of time, probably over three months."

Vorce remains in custody

[phragle]

awwwwww...he teared up...howtouching...not.

[boatme]

Some repeated info and some new info


Michael Vorce pleads guilty, details his $27 million fraud, had 'bankrupt set of priorities'
by John Tunison | The Grand Rapids Press
Thursday June 18, 2009, 11:15 PM
GRAND RAPIDS -- Michael Vorce, accused in one of West Michigan's largest fraud cases ever, teared up Thursday as he talked about carrying on illegal loan schemes even after banks seized and auctioned his property in 2007.


Michael Vorce "I was living according to a bankrupt set of priorities," Vorce told U.S. District Court Judge Robert Holmes Bell in court Thursday, pleading guilty to four fraud-related charges involving $27 million in ill-gotten funds.

"When everything that I had known, the money and things, when that went away, I fell back into the selfish needs to pursue money," he said. "At the time, I was so morally corrupt, so misguided, trying to maintain the duality of what I thought was important, what I thought was me," he said.

For Vorce and federal prosecutors, the financial crime saga that became public in April 2007 and bilked loan funds from multiple banks is nearing an end. Vorce, 32, of Alpine Township, will be sentenced Sept. 18.

Vorce, who has been jailed 10 months since federal authorities arrested him and co-conspirator James Jett in Chicago, pleaded guilty to two counts of bank fraud and one count each of not filing a 2006 tax return and money laundering. He could be sentenced to more than 70 years in prison.

Several members of Vorce's family were in court Thursday, but declined comment after the hearing.

For the first time in his own words, Vorce explained how he ran a Ponzi scheme, securing loans for at least 30 expensive boats with fraudulent documents and titles but only really owning four boats.

He used Adobe Photoshop, Microsoft Word and tax software programs to create fake documents, some detailing the value of boats, as part of his West Michigan Yachts company, which supposedly specialized in buying distressed boats at wholesale and reselling them at a retail price.

"There was a significant amount of work that went into creating the information and perpetuating this," Vorce told the judge.

Vorce described how he fooled loan officers into believing he was a "credit worthy" borrower and he gained their trust, eventually getting a $4.5 million line of credit from one bank. As part of the Ponzi, he periodically paid money on older loans to keep up the scheme.

He admitted to never refurbishing any boats, but having the four boats on hand in case bank officials wanted to see them.

Vorce didn't file income tax returns after 2002 out of fear of jeopardizing the scheme, which involved creating fake returns to file with banks to get loans.

When federal authorities began investigating Vorce in early 2007, the banks seized his assets, including five plasma televisions, leather home theater chairs and two loaded sport-utility vehicles. Federal documents later alleged he used loan money to buy his Alpine Township mansion, a Miami condo and an exotic Aston Martin Vanquish.

Vorce, however, continued his fraudulent ways on the Internet to obtain further loans as he disappeared from police. He admitted to using public wireless connections in West Michigan, including at Panera Bread, to apply for loans while he and Jett set up a "virtual" office in Chicago to receive documents.

Bell seemed incredulous that some banks last year issued loans without a loan officer ever having a face-to-face meeting with Vorce. Vorce described how he used the Internet to first get a $200,000 loan, followed by larger loans for $700,000 and $800,000.

BY THE NUMBERS
17: Number of fraud-related charges Michael Vorce faced
4: Number he admitted to Thursday
$27 million: Amount Vorce bilked from 10 banks
$11.3 million: Vorce's unreported gross income in 2006
2: Biggest victims, Macatawa Bank ($9.2 million) and Irwin Union, ($8.6 million)
70: Maximum years in prison for bank fraud
Source: Federal prosecutors

Vorce said he spoke on the phone with a loan officer, but never met anyone in person.

He told how he and Jett were "successful in receiving a large amount of money in a short period of time, probably over three months" before federal authorities caught them picking up loan documents from a courier service in Chicago.

U.S. Assistant Attorney Tim VerHey described Thursday's plea as satisfying.

"It's very satisfying when you hear someone essentially say 'You caught me,'" he said.

While he declined comment on whether banks should have done a better job screening loans, he called Vorce's fraud "a pretty sophisticated scheme he threw at these banks. I think he would have pulled it off regardless."

[Ratickle]

I don't think he gets sentenced until September sometime.

[boatme]

I posted this along time ago but thought i would post it again

I made this up two years ago or better I plaqued it and it is hanging in my office

The picture issone of Mike Vorce that my wife took at the Boyne City Poker Run I jsut got a bit creative

He is in his (Or the banks) 36 Skater

That is him waving by by to his freedom

[MarylandMark]

Thanks for keeping us up to date Marc!

[boatme]

GR Press this week

[DaveP]

And I am proud to say that Essex Credit and I are the ones who caught him in the act and notified the FBI......................and BINGO BANGO in the can he went!

[sy goldberg]

Does in the can have multiple meanings ?

[TCEd]

Boatme,
By his booking picture the only impression I get of him is he's WORRIED who's sex toy he'll become.
ed

[Comanche3Six]

Does in the can have multiple meanings ?

Only when coupled with Bango!

[boatme]

Latest Magazine cover

[boatme]

The Latest

Un Fricking Believable

Could Vorce's sentence be reduced?
US Attorney's Office files motion Thursday asking
Updated: Thursday, 22 Oct 2009, 9:50 PM EDT
Published : Thursday, 22 Oct 2009, 9:50 PM EDT

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - The U.S. Attorneys Office in Grand Rapids filed a motion Thursday afternoon to have Michael Vorce's sentence reduced when he appears in court next week.

Vorce, of Grand Rapids, is a West Michigan yacht broker accused in a $27 million fraud case.

The U.S. Attorney cites Vorce's sworn testimony against two former business associates who may have falsified documents to entice investors into putting their money into business ventures. That appears to violate wire fraud statutes, according to the motion.

Vorce also testified in a Wisconsin homicide case, helping the prosecutor to convict a defendant, according to documents. In a sentencing memo filed by Vorce's attorney, Larry Willey, his involvement in the homicide case is outlined: "Mr. Vorce cooperated in a first-degree murder case in Milwaukee County, involving a very ugly homicide of a 21-year-old woman.

"The defendant was Calvin Pirtle, who appears to be a sociopath. While he was in Milwaukee County Jail, Mr. Vorce shared a cell with Mr. Pirtle, and Mr. Pirtle, on almost a daily basis, bragged to Mr. Vorce about this homicide and other similar crimes he had committed. Mr. Vorce volunteered this information on his own to the police while he still was incarcerated in Milwaukee. The police had no way of knowing of these confessions except by Mr. Vorce telling them. The other inmates hearing Mr. Pirtle's statements remained silent, understanding the stigma and danger of cooperation."

Vorce also cooperated with other government agencies and the banks that were victims of his fraud, according to the sentencing memo.

Vorce has agreed to forfeit his assets to the government and has transferred all that he owns to the banks, the memo states.

Financially, Vorce has nothing. His wife is working, going to school and taking care of their son. She is helped by some public assistance.

His next court date is Oct. 29.

[boatme]

And a little more


Michael Vorce may get reduced fraud sentence after testifying against others
By Nate Reens | The Grand Rapids Press
October 23, 2009, 7:43AM
GRAND RAPIDS — Michael Vorce, believed to have bilked more than $20 million from banks in loans for yachts that never existed, may escape a recommended nearly 20 years in prison for testimony against former business associates locally and a man he helped convict of murder in Wisconsin.


Michael Vorce
Vorce, 32, formerly of Alpine Township, is in line to have his sentence for guilty pleas to multiple felony counts of bank fraud reduced.
Federal prosecutors filed a motion Thursday to depart from a pre-sentence advisory that he be ordered to serve between 188 and 235 months in prison at his sentencing next Thursday.

The basis of the request lies in his testimony on the alleged fraudulent business activities of former partners Ryan Steensma and Stephanie *****ett.

Vorce accuses them of falsifying documents to send to investors, court records show.

Vorce said Steensma, the owner of security firm Redline 22 and a former Kent County sheriff’s deputy, was able to obtain money under activity that appears to violate federal wire fraud regulations, documents show.

Steensma, whose business specializes in security for companies doing work in the Middle East, Africa and other hot spots, earlier admitted to being subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury in connection with Vorce’s case.

The government is pursuing that investigation, according to Assistant U.S. Attorney Tim VerHey, court records showed.

It is not publicly known how much Vorce’s punishment could be reduced.

Larry Willey, Vorce’s attorney, contends his client has undergone a transformation while behind bars for the past 14 months.

Vorce, already under investigation by local authorities for bank fraud, was arrested and jailed while trying to steal the identity of a Milwaukee lawyer along with a friend.

“Vorce now is not the same person who committed these offenses,” Willey wrote.

Willey’s arguments also focus on Vorce’s cooperation as a jailhouse informant in the Wisconsin slaying case against Calvin Pirtle, convicted of “a very ugly homicide of a 21-year-old woman.”

[Chris]

That's probably good news. They'll stick this jailhouse rat into general population and he'll follow his nature. Only the justice system of his new home is swifter and surer than the one out here.

[Wrinkleface]

he was a liar & scammer b4, so he's probably do'n the same thing 2 the feds!! OH no, wait, he's changed!! he must b an angel now!!!:beatdeadhorse5: