Broken Drive Shaft?!?!

[Freeryd_99]

Ok so...i think i broke my drive shaft, or something along those lines. Here's the best i can tell ya about what happend. But be warned, im NOT mechanically inclined in the least so just bare with me!!!

Launched boat, warmed up to temp, heading down lake. 8-12inches of chop, into wind so not rough. about 1mile into running, made large sweeping turn and headed back to marina. at about 70mph, and 5,000rpm all of a sudden the boat slowed instantly, rpms went up, audible alarm sounded for rev limiter, and engine screamed. It acted as if it came outta gear all of a sudden! I went to neutral, came offf throttle completely and let everything settle. When i gathered my thoughts, i attempted to take off again. As i first put it into gear, everything seemed fine. She took right off at idle speed. As soon as i applied ANY throttle, it reved up like it was in neutral again!
We checked the prop and everything seemed good. tried a time or 2 more with the same results. So, we left it at idle and limped back to the launch. Once on the trailer we pulled the prop and hub. With the opinions of several ppl around we decided the hub went bad. We pressed out the old, and installed a new one. Put it back into the lake....SAME RESULTS!

That brings you all up to currently! Now what??? Is there anyway i can determine WHAT went wrong for 100% certain without having to pull my drive and motor? We assume it's the splines on the shaft, going into the coupler. Do you agree? Im looking for ANY and ALL input here guys! We'ver got the tools, and i've got ppl around with the ability to fix the problem, we're just hoping to as closely diagnose this problem as we can before really tearing everythng apart!

2002 Baja Outlaw
496 Mag HO
Bravo I
23p Mirage 3-blade

(Need anymore info?)

[Freeryd_99]

Ok so...i think i broke my drive shaft, or something along those lines. Here's the best i can tell ya about what happend. But be warned, im NOT mechanically inclined in the least so just bare with me!!!

Launched boat, warmed up to temp, heading down lake. 8-12inches of chop, into wind so not rough. about 1mile into running, made large sweeping turn and headed back to marina. at about 70mph, and 5,000rpm all of a sudden the boat slowed instantly, rpms went up, audible alarm sounded for rev limiter, and engine screamed. It acted as if it came outta gear all of a sudden! I went to neutral, came offf throttle completely and let everything settle. When i gathered my thoughts, i attempted to take off again. As i first put it into gear, everything seemed fine. She took right off at idle speed. As soon as i applied ANY throttle, it reved up like it was in neutral again!
We checked the prop and everything seemed good. tried a time or 2 more with the same results. So, we left it at idle and limped back to the launch. Once on the trailer we pulled the prop and hub. With the opinions of several ppl around we decided the hub went bad. We pressed out the old, and installed a new one. Put it back into the lake....SAME RESULTS!

That brings you all up to currently! Now what??? Is there anyway i can determine WHAT went wrong for 100% certain without having to pull my drive and motor? We assume it's the splines on the shaft, going into the coupler. Do you agree? Im looking for ANY and ALL input here guys! We'ver got the tools, and i've got ppl around with the ability to fix the problem, we're just hoping to as closely diagnose this problem as we can before really tearing everythng apart!

2002 Baja Outlaw
496 Mag HO
Bravo I
23p Mirage 3-blade

(Need anymore info?)

[TMS1155]

Sounds like coupler is spun.

[PatriYacht]

Agree, check coupler.

[95south]

my friend just went thru the same situation.
it was the upper clutch assembly

good luck with the repair

[Clustergear]

If the boat will move forward at idle but slips when rpm's come up. Maybe the coupler, take a flash light and look down behind motor and see if the are any metel shaving where the input shaft from drive goes in the back of motor. If you can't see back there try sticking finger in ( like you use to play stink finger) to check for metal shavings and black rubber stuff. Some times a you can see in there with a flashlight and mirror. If so pull drive and look inside. If something went in drive pull bottom vent plug after sitting all night there will properbly be lots of metal on magnet.

[glassdave]

+1 on the coupler.

[fund razor]

Hi Bill. That sucks.
Buy a gasket kit and pull the drive. Maybe a buddy will help, it's heavy. Wood under the skeg can be your friend.
Inspect the inside of the coupler and the outside of the spline. If one is worn, the other is too. Square teeth that have become triangles/pointy is your sign. If it is the coupler and/or spline I would see if you can bolt on a new coupler with the engine in. Meanwhile I would have a drive guy replace the spline at the U joint. He can also check the drive. If you haven't changed your bellows in a while.... (or ever) now is the time. Either confirm the alignment yourself using the alignment tool or have it done. Hopefully the coupler can be replaced without an R and R of the engine.

[Airpacker]

Sounds like someone is pulling a motor out soon. Coupler let loose is my bet as well.

[Freeryd_99]

ok....so it sounds like the coupler is the common concensus! That goes along with about 5 other opinions from ppl up here as well. And all i got to say about that is...DAMN!

I've got access to a drive stand, so that will help. But i'm still trying to figure out how i'm gonna pull that motor out? You gotta have something that reaches pretty dang high in the air for that! I've got a motor stand for once its out, but i just gotta get it there.

So assuming you guys are right and this is the problem. How much am i looking at for repairs if we do it ourselves?
Thanks a million guys!

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

You must pull engine to change coupler. No way around it. The splines on the coupler are aluminum and the shaft on drive is steel. There is little reason to change the input steel part. The aluminum fails from lack of grease. It needs to be greased every season or 50 hrs. New couplers have a grease fitting on them. It is a PITA to reach it but, this is the alternative. If the rubber part failed you would smell burning rubber. It fails from impact or mis alignment.

When you pull drives and see the spline grease is dried up and you notice silver / black sludge in the input spline that is your coupler wearing.

Before you do anything get the boat on the trailer. Put it in gear with engine off and stand on the prop. If it turns One of three things it could be. the coupler , the prop hub, the clutch gear in drive. Typically if the drive fails it will not allow you to idle home.

[drpete3]

I was with Bill and when the boat was on the trailer and he puts it in gear the prop will catch when in forward but in reverse it was spinning.

[Geronimo36]

Look behind the engine down towards the coupler. If you see metal shavings all over the place or melted rubber stuck on stuff your coupler is shot.

Good news is if that's what it is it's an easy fix and you should be up in running in a half day and about $500 if you pay someone to do it.. Maybe $200 higher (parts) if you have a shop do it cause they usually charge about $500 to R&R the engine.

[Clustergear]

if you don't have a place to pull engine, see if one of your freinds has acess to a tow truck most of them have extending booms now a days. Use to pull motor by myself back the truck up to boat and work the boom levers with my foot.

[Blue Oval]

I think I know a guy with a tow truck!

[blackhawk]

I agree it's probably the coupler. BUT I would try another prop to make sure there wasn't a problem with the new hub installed. Chances are very slim but I would want to know 100% before I yanked the motor. I've had couplers and prop hubs go and they acted identical. Could idle but applied throttle and free revved like in neutral.

[fund razor]

You must pull engine to change coupler. No way around it. That's a bummer.

[Freeryd_99]

I know a guy with a tow truck to!!! haha. Guess that's what we're doing then! Pick a time Bob...it's YOUR truck. I've got the barn with 16ft rafters so we got plenty of clearance. I'm swinging in to Dry Harbour today on my way past, will talk to Tim and get his opinion as well.
Keep the advice coming guys! We're gonna need all we can get!

[Geronimo36]

You don't even need to pull the engine all the way out of the boat. As a matter of fact I did one once and didn't completely unhook all the wiring/hoses. You just need to go high enough and far enough forward so you can gain access to the rear of the engine with an impact gun so you can R&R the bellhousing and coupler...

If you are re-using the coupler bolts, be sure to use red loctite. If you get a new coupler, look at the threads, it should already have sealer on them.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Frank, Once it is loose and on the hook he might as well get it clear of the boat. Dump the oil, check bilge pump and float switch. Exhaust flappers in down tubes if he has them.

There is usually no room to move it forward in a Baja. The 20 minutes you may save is offset by aggravation of working in a tight area.

[Geronimo36]

i hear ya. I was concerned of him not being able to find a lift high enough to clear the boat, especially if it's on a trailer. If he couldn't get the engine high enough without making special plans he could turn it or move it forward a little.

We've all been in a pinch! Last one I did like that was for a customer at 7 pm the night before a poker run. It was a 45' Sonic and in order to get the engine out we had to take the huge hatch off the back and no time... Disconnected the rams, had a Mexi hold it up, cotton on the forklift and me in the bilge. We got it done in about an hour to an hour and a half soup to nuts! That boat owner is now my boss for the past 9 yrs! :)

[Freeryd_99]

So, someone said they can get me the part i need for $300. Is that about right? What else should i do while i've got this motor out? There's nearly 600hrs on it, and i don't think much has been done ever. (i'm the 2nd owner) List them off guys!

[Airpacker]

600hrs? One word. Rebuild.

[Ratickle]

600hrs? One word. Rebuild.

I'm with Sean if you already have it out.

However, I'd run a comp and leakdown test, and if you're close to good, wait till winter......

[Geronimo36]

Same here....that's alot of hours. At minimum have a rebuild/replacement budgeted in at the end of the season.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Same here....that's alot of hours. At minimum have a rebuild/replacement budgeted in at the end of the season.

I'm with Frank. No sense disabling it now. Budget for end of season. And change the other coupler too.

[ROGUE]

I agree it's probably the coupler. BUT I would try another prop to make sure there wasn't a problem with the new hub installed. Chances are very slim but I would want to know 100% before I yanked the motor. I've had couplers and prop hubs go and they acted identical. Could idle but applied throttle and free revved like in neutral.

I second this. Having blown prop hubs and couplers, this sounds like a prop hub, when I had a coupler let go I had nothing, no propulsion at all. Did you find signs of burnt or dislodged rubber behind the motor?

[phragle]

bellows and gimble bearings..

[Ryan8886]

I second this. Having blown prop hubs and couplers, this sounds like a prop hub, when I had a coupler let go I had nothing, no propulsion at all. Did you find signs of burnt or dislodged rubber behind the motor?

Eh....I had 2 almost fried couplers and no symptoms...my wrench said I was one hole shot from completely blowing them out. After seeing them, I was convinced he wasn't BS'ing me. Sure sounds like couplers to me.

As for what to do while the motors are pulled....with 600 hrs the minimum I would do is fresh starters....how much would it su@k to get it all back together just to hear the dreaded....click?

[Tinkerer]

It isn't lack of grease that blows couplers its lack of alignment.

Get an alignment tool - your engine is WAY off.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It isn't lack of grease that blows couplers its lack of alignment.

Get an alignment tool - your engine is WAY off.

Bad alignment takes out the rubber part. Lack of grease takes out the Aluminum spline

[Geronimo36]

I'm with Jimmy.... :)

Steel shaft + aluminum splines + no grease = bad coupler.

Regardless though, he should re-check the alignment when re-installing the engine. I like the starter idea as well.

[Blue Thunder]

It isn't lack of grease that blows couplers its lack of alignment.

Get an alignment tool - your engine is WAY off.

I agree with tinker... I have taken the splines out of several couplers due to misaligned engines. Never blown the rubber out ever.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I agree with tinker... I have taken the splines out of several couplers due to misaligned engines. Never blown the rubber out ever.

There must have been an error in your analysis.:leaving:

[Blue Thunder]

Could be but I don't think so. When I bought the boat the guy gave me an alignment tool he made. I blew the splines out of several couplers on both engines and the alignment always showed good with the tool. Finally it occured to me that this tool might be the problem. I ordered a merc alignment tool and the alignment was way off on both engines. After spending some time adjusting the alignment properly I have never wiped out the splines on another coupler. I even ran one coupler with pointy splines that was run with the out of alignment situation and never took that out after the engines were aligned properly.

Theres my analysis mobilemercman, lets hear your supporting analysis.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

All I can say is I base my opinion on over 25 years of service on countless boats. If your splines are dry they will fail aligned or not.

[Geronimo36]

In all honesty I've seen both... Most spun hubs I saw were on ski boats. More often than not spline failure was due to lack of grease or improper grease but once I did see the spline go away from alignment but it was rare. There was even a boat that I used to work on with offshore mounts that the alignment was so bad you had to force the drive on by kicking it or using a "persuasion block" and it never wiped a coupler.

At the end of the day what will tell us the story is how wet/dry the coupler is with grease and what kind of grease was used. If everything is wet with good spline grease and the splines are wasted I'd point towards alignment.

Regardless he should check the alignment when he puts the engines back in especially since it sounds like he has stock mounts. :)

[Tinkerer]

So - did it take out the splines or the rubber?
If it took out the splines the boat wouldn't move at idle.
If it took out the rubber the boat would move at idle but no more than that.
I have taken out brand new couplers that were properly greased ( rubber part ) in less than 30 minutes due to an allignment problem that the stock merc. tool didn't show as out of alignment. I have since modified mine to show if the rear mounts are sagged.
How many of you check to see that the tool is paralell to the bottom of the boat???

[Tinkerer]

If your splines are dry - yes the splines WILL fail but it WILL take a long time to do so.
If your engine is out of alignment the life is measured in hours.

And that comes from 31 years of working on HP boats with lots of HP.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Not sure what parallel to the bottom has to do with it. That has more to do with transom angle than alignment. The alignment on a alpha or bravo is to position the coupler to the gimble bearing. The tool wont check the condition of the outer pieces like the gimble ring. As the gimble ring settles it will mis align everything after the gimble bearing. That will be contribute to coupler and other upper drive failures.

On drives with transmissions the alignment is more inclusive. It aligns the output shaft to the bellhousing. As the gimble ring settles in these the misalignment is more easily recognized.

My merc tool is old and has never mislead me.

[TMS1155]

Have my merc alignment tool since 1976,Dont know how many hundreds of boats Ive used it on but being parallel to the bottom has nothing to do with alignment. Think about all the differant transom angles there are, Gimbal housing is mounted to transom. I think if there was something wrong with the way this tool was made it would have been redesigned by now.

[Tinkerer]

The shaft still needs to be paralell to the bottom of the boat.
How do you know that the rear mounts havn't sagged?

[Tinkerer]

If the rear mounts sag you can still get the engine to align properly by lowering the front mount.
The problem is that as you lower the front mount to get the MERC alignment tool to show you that the engine is aligned ( the tool will slide right in smoothly ) You are changing the angle of the output shaft and making the U joints flex. This side loading of the U joints Will blow the rubber coupler. I had a TRAINED MERC. tech. tell me that the engine was perfect. ( the new coupler lasted 30 minutes.) I lost three couplers in two weeks. I then figured out what was wrong and fixed it. I now pin my rear mounts so they can't sag.

[Tinkerer]

Isn't there a different transom assembly for each different angle transom?

[blackhawk]

What Tinkerer is saying makes sense. The alignment tool would go in smooth but at a slight downward angle and you probably wouldn't realize it. Another reason to run offshore mounts.

What causes the rear mounts to "sag"?

Freeryd in attempt to keep your thread from totally being hijacked :D I would completely drain the oil while the motor is out and add a oil drain kit that replaces your drain plug. Check everything over and look for the obvious. Compression and leak down is a good idea but you can get screwy readings on a cold motor. If it still runs strong don't worry about it, drop it back in and run it. Inspect the bellows and gimbal bearing while the drive is off and definitely check the alignment before installing the drive . The coupler price of $300 sounds good especially if it's the longer coupler.

[blackhawk]

Isn't there a different transom assembly for each different angle transom?

No I believe they are all the same. I would assume the bearing would swivel to compensate for the slightly different transom angles. Shouldn't matter since it is constantly swiveling for trim angle and steering.

[Tinkerer]

The thing is with trim and steering is the shafts are always in the same plane ( the ends of the shafts line up at the same height and angle when the drive is trimmed neutral)
When the rear mounts sag the front of the engine is lowered to get the alignment proper per the tool.
Now the output shaft from the engine is tipped down and the U joint end is higher than the input shaft of the drive. This works the U joint causing side loading of the gimbal bearing and coupler.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Steve, the more you talk the more I question your experience. When the rear mounts "sagged" you should have replaced them. 3 couplers shame on you. Quite an expensive learning curve. Was this your boat or a customers?

I hope you got it worked out now.

[Tinkerer]

So you don't agree with what I write?
What I said is true. You just must not have run into it yet.
The typical boat I work on is NOT stock. They usually have at least half again more HP than stock.


That was 20 years ago - and you didn't read what I wrote.
I said that a MERC tech. said everything was perfect. This was a high HP app.
The reason for the coupler going bad was not an alignment problem according to the MERC guy.
The reason was the rear mounts were flexing ( sagged ) this caused the coupler to go.
Replacing the mount would not have solved the problem. I learned how to set the proper rear engine height and then locked the rear of the engine in place so that IT CAN'T move.
I havn't lost a coupler since.

[Tinkerer]

I made an attachment for my alignment tool to check the rear mounts for sag.
I bet you don't have one. It wasn't hard to figure out. If the alignment tool is not at the right angle in relation to the drive it shows up instantly.

[Tinkerer]

I bet that you think that if the alignment tool slides right in smooth everything is OK.

NOT

[Tinkerer]

I can lower the front of an engine two inches and still get the alignment tool to show that everthing is perfect according to your MERC tech.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I find at times people create there own problems.

I am glad you figured it out.

[Ratickle]

I made an attachment for my alignment tool to check the rear mounts for sag.
I bet you don't have one. It wasn't hard to figure out. If the alignment tool is not at the right angle in relation to the drive it shows up instantly.

Can you take a pic and post it? I cannot for the life of me figure out what engine height would have to do with alignment the Merc tool would not pick up.....

The engines have trim and tilt and never run at exactly zero, in my experience, so maybe a sketch?

The OMC's used to tilt the entire engine, but had the big boot.

My TRS, and the 3A boat, is entirely different to align than the Bravo boat.

Anyway, I'm not picturing it even looking at my manuals.

[blackhawk]

The thing is with trim and steering is the shafts are always in the same plane ( the ends of the shafts line up at the same height and angle when the drive is trimmed neutral)
When the rear mounts sag the front of the engine is lowered to get the alignment proper per the tool.
Now the output shaft from the engine is tipped down and the U joint end is higher than the input shaft of the drive. This works the U joint causing side loading of the gimbal bearing and coupler.

Not sure if that was a reply to my post. I totally agree with you I was commenting about the gimbal assy and different transom angles.

[blackhawk]

Can you take a pic and post it? I cannot for the life of me figure out what engine height would have to do with alignment the Merc tool would not pick up.....

If your rear mounts sag your alignment will be off as the center of the coupler will be lower than the center of the gimbal bearing. However, if you lower the front of the motor enough the alignment bar will slide in easily since the gimbal bearing swivels. If you didn't know your rear mounts had sagged you would think it is aligned because the tool slid in easily. However, the tool went in at a slight downward angle. This angle is so small that you wouldn't notice it. At least that is how I'm interpreting it. Makes sense to me.

[TMS1155]

If your rear mounts are bad or not installed properly, including spring washers then you cant align engine properly no matter how you redesign or add pieces to the alignment tool. The mounts have to be in correctly to insure proper height of rear of engine. Then and only then can engine be aligned correctly. If you are pinning or staking rear mounts for HP setup they still have to be the same height as original mounts or it will not line up right. The alignment only aligns the coupler with the gimbal bearing on an alpha or bravo drive. The angle of the bottom, the transom or the bell housing has nothing to do with it. From the gimbal bearing to the drive the alignment changes any time you trim or turn the drive and has nothing to do with spinning the hub or splines on the coupler. When the drive goes on the U-joint shaft goes right up against the gimbal bearing and never moves between first U joint and coupler unless eng mounts are bad or loose. Hope this explains it a little better.
On the TRS drive the alignment tool with the disc that fits the bell housing is really only used to center the tail shaft of the trans to the gimbal housing while aligning eng. There is no rubber hub coupler on them and the gimbal bearing is pressed into the tailstock and shouldnt move.
No, they do not make different transom housings for different angles, at least not stock.
Ever see a drive saft on a car that was perfectly straight? U-joints are made to work at different angles.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Thanks Tom.

The mounts have recently been s/s from Merc. If you replace them now they are different and no longer use the spring washer. They come only in pairs and need to be changed in pairs.

[TMS1155]

The new style mounts are only out in the last few years. I was talking about the problem He was having 20 years ago. If there were no springs or bad mounts You couldnt get alignment right, Didnt matter if you had 120 hp or 800 hp on the alpha drive.

[Tinkerer]

DING DING DING - Blackhawk has it figured out. He IS correct.

TMS - You are wrong. the gimbal bearing swivels so even if the rear mounts drop 1/2 in inch you can still get the engine to align with the Merc tool by lowering the front of the motor. If you don't believe me try it for yourself.

Show me a car that uses a double U joint like a boat does...
The double U joint will allow sideways loading - a single U joint will NOT.
Sideways loading will flex the shaft in the coupler and blow the coupler.
The adapter I made is very similar to the TRS plate that goes onto the alignment tool.
It checks the alignment of the engine, gimbal bearing and the outdrive hat.
If the rear mounts are sagged the tool will not align with the hat.

[TMS1155]

First of all what you are not getting is the FACT that the only alignment that will affect the coupler is the alignment between the bearing and coupler. Second is that a double u-joint will not allow side loading, a single one will. But I guess if Im wrong and your right I better start calling all the customers from the last 35 years and tell them to bring their boats back for me to recheck them.
Every example you have used pertains to bad mounts. If mounts are bad You cant align eng Plain and simple.
Every car Ive seen has a double u-joint there just further apart.
Bell housing on alpha or bravo have nothing to do with eng alignment.

[Tinkerer]

NO car has a double U joint like a boat. NONE
A car has two U joints ( one at each end of the shaft.) NOT two ( double ) U joints back to back like a boat does.
remove one end of the drive shaft on any car - then go to the other end that is still attached and see if you can move the shaft up or down without moving the other end of the shaft. Now try this on the DOUBLE U joint assembly that a boat has.
See how you can move the whole assembly around - That is why a double U joint WILL allow side loading and a single will NOT.

Quote: First of all what you are not getting is the FACT that the only alignment that will affect the coupler is the alignment between the bearing and coupler.

Side loading caused by the two shafts not being lined up end for end WILL also cause the coupler to go out.

FACT - if the rear mounts sag you CAN get the alignment tool to go in smoothly by lowering the front of the engine.

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME TRY IT --- i WILL PUT $1000 ON IT - ARE YOU WILLING TO PLAY???

[Tinkerer]

Bell housing has EVERYTHING to do with checking rear mount sag without tearing everything apart. The tool I made checks for rear mount sag in 10 seconds.

[Tinkerer]

Side loading ONLY comes into play with high HP boats - so if you don't work on them then you wouldn't ever find this out. You would just take it as abnormal early wear of the splines. Add enough HP and you wont have time to wear the splines ( if they are greased ) What happens is you flex the rubber part of the coupler untill it overheats and blows up. ( rubber melts )

[TMS1155]

OK, one more time and Im done Because this is going nowhere, I wont change your mind and you wont change mine!
Drive shaft in a car is the same as on the drive only longer. Take the same example you used and take off one u-joint and try to move the shaft going into the gimbal bearing (just picture the center of yoke the same as the drive shaft only shorter) you cant move the shaft side to side just like in the car. The reason for the double u-joint is to allow the drive to trim and turn without causing sideload. If you only had one u-joint it would destroy the gimbal housing and a bunch of other stuff as soon as you turn or trim the drive.
As far as getting the tool in with BAD mounts by lowering the front of the eng 2 inches you may be right but the tool would be at such an angle it would require lifting the bell housing up to get it in.
What you designed may check for bad mounts (if so I think thats great!) But it still doesnt help with alignment. If your mounts are correct tool works 100% If not after doing it enough times you know if the mounts are broken as soon as you put the tool in.
You can tell if mounts are bad just by looking where eng mounts to transom housing. If mounts are bad you can move the big washer on top of the mount(after breaking away any corrosion in salt water boat)
Im not looking to argue about this, Im just looking to help explain How the alignment is done.
(I've been doing this for about 35 years and never had a return failure on a coupler or engine alignment.)

[TMS1155]

Side loading ONLY comes into play with high HP boats - so if you don't work on them then you wouldn't ever find this out. You would just take it as abnormal early wear of the splines. Add enough HP and you wont have time to wear the splines ( if they are greased ) What happens is you flex the rubber part of the coupler untill it overheats and blows up. ( rubber melts )

Add enough HP to anything and it will break faster than it normally would. And yes I've owned and worked on a "few" HP boats over the years. The side loading you are talking about is from the engine twisting the mounts that are not designed for the H/P you putting on them. Thats why they make the offshore solid mounts

[TMS1155]

No I believe they are all the same. I would assume the bearing would swivel to compensate for the slightly different transom angles. Shouldn't matter since it is constantly swiveling for trim angle and steering.

Blackhawk, just so you know, the gimbal bearing does not swival once the drive shaft is installed the u-joints do that. The gimbal bearing only holds the back end of the input shaft in place so the double u-joint wont whip around like it does before you install the drive.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Tinkerer, Are you still talking about a 20 yer issue? Are you trying to sell your new fangled tool?

I too with TMS have never had recurring alignment issues. How can I or anyone trust your input at this point. This is not an argument.

High powered boats should have non adjustable plate mounts. If the rear mounts fail change them. This a simple procedure.

[DAREDEVIL]

Isn't there a different transom assembly for each different angle transom?

WHAT ????????????????:rofl:

[DAREDEVIL]

DING DING DING - Blackhawk has it figured out. He IS correct.

TMS - You are wrong. the gimbal bearing swivels so even if the rear mounts drop 1/2 in inch you can still get the engine to align with the Merc tool by lowering the front of the motor. If you don't believe me try it for yourself.

Show me a car that uses a double U joint like a boat does...
The double U joint will allow sideways loading - a single U joint will NOT.
Sideways loading will flex the shaft in the coupler and blow the coupler.
The adapter I made is very similar to the TRS plate that goes onto the alignment tool.
It checks the alignment of the engine, gimbal bearing and the outdrive hat.
If the rear mounts are sagged the tool will not align with the hat.



Not to jump in here ,,,,,,but you are saying if my rear mounts sag down ( 1/8 inch ) all i have to do is lower the front and i will still have the coupler in one line with the gimbal bearing ??????? mmhhhhh makes no sense at all !!!!!!!!

[DAREDEVIL]

The only reason i know of when the driveshaft breaks ,,,,, is overtrimm ( knockeling the u joint ) or stuck drive @ wot !!!!!!!!!
And wear ( rust age ) !!!!!!!!!!!!

Later

[DAREDEVIL]

FACT - if the rear mounts sag you CAN get the alignment tool to go in smoothly by lowering the front of the engine.

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME TRY IT --- i WILL PUT $1000 ON IT - ARE YOU WILLING TO PLAY???[/QUOTE]

When are u going to send me the check ????????????

IT WILL NOT WORK !!!!!!!!

[DAREDEVIL]

[QUOTE=Tinkerer;272252]NO car has a double U joint like a boat. NONE
A car has two U joints ( one at each end of the shaft.) NOT two ( double ) U joints back to back like a boat does.


MHHHHHHHHHH,,,???????? isn't it the same .......just longer ?????????

THINK ABOUT IT !!!!!!!!

Only diffrents is the car has a flange and the drive has a yoke !!

[DAREDEVIL]

QUOTE

See how you can move the whole assembly around - That is why a double U joint WILL allow side loading and a single will NOT.


:confused::confused::confused:

how can that be if the double u joint is behind the bearing that is fixed ?????:seeya:

[DAREDEVIL]

[QUOTE=Tinkerer;272252]


Side loading caused by the two shafts not being lined up end for end WILL also cause the coupler to go out.



I think u mean nockeling !!!!!!!!!! because if u trim or turn it does that and so everytime i have my 650 ft # 800 HP engine @ 7000 RPM in a turn i would blow it up ??? mmmmmhhhhh

wonder why it never happend :driving:

[DAREDEVIL]

Bell housing has EVERYTHING to do with checking rear mount sag without tearing everything apart. The tool I made checks for rear mount sag in 10 seconds.

Its the angle of the bearing that is fixed so it does not matter where the bellhousing is !!!!

ALSO ,,,if u had a flexing rear mount ( due to HP ,,which i think its due to thin or week steel ) the damn thing would vibrate that u would feel it in any kind of boat.


If the engine would sag down in the rear ,,,,,the inner gimbal assmbl would explode at the bearing ,,,u can't angle something thru it unless its to thin ,,,i think u are using an aluminum broom handle as an aligment tool ,,,then it could work what your talking about ?! mmmmhhh

This is to much for me and i am not even a mechanic ,,,,,but not even in theory that would work what your trying to explain.

I just hope your costumers read this before they hire u !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:leaving:

[insanity]

NO car has a double U joint like a boat. NONE
A car has two U joints ( one at each end of the shaft.) NOT two ( double ) U joints back to back like a boat does.
remove one end of the drive shaft on any car - then go to the other end that is still attached and see if you can move the shaft up or down without moving the other end of the shaft. Now try this on the DOUBLE U joint assembly that a boat has.
See how you can move the whole assembly around - That is why a double U joint WILL allow side loading and a single will NOT.

Quote: First of all what you are not getting is the FACT that the only alignment that will affect the coupler is the alignment between the bearing and coupler.

Side loading caused by the two shafts not being lined up end for end WILL also cause the coupler to go out.

FACT - if the rear mounts sag you CAN get the alignment tool to go in smoothly by lowering the front of the engine.

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME TRY IT --- i WILL PUT $1000 ON IT - ARE YOU WILLING TO PLAY???


Maybe not cars per se, but there are a lot of trucks that have double-cardan u-joints exactly like a drive double u-joint. Especially the front driveshaft in most solid front axle 4x4's.

[Tinkerer]

You guys just don't get it. Put your $ were your mouth is.

I work with couplers for a living - if the shafts dont align the coupler will go bad fast.
If you don't believe me go try it you will find that I am right.
OH and PM me for my address to send the check.

And a boat double U joint is NOT the same as a car but farther apart. The car drive shaft is supported at each end ( one by the transmission the other by the axle.) ( The boat is supported at each end also - but one end is the rubber coupler - Isn't that the whole isue )
The drive shaft can't move sideways. ( sideways force is side loading ) With the boat U joint the two U joints are back to back - if the shafts ends don't line up then it puts sideways force on the gimbal bearing and thus on the coupler.
Oh and I have been working on HP boats for 31 years. ( that is all that I work on.)
20 years or today the same still holds true.
If you think the boat is the same as in a car. Tell me what happens if you put too much angle on a car U joint. THEY BIND

FACTS ARE FACTS

If you guys cant understand what I am saying - don't argue - JUST GO TRY IT FOR YOURSELF.....

YOU WILL FIND THAT I AM RIGHT......

[Tinkerer]

daredevil - the angle of the gimbal bearing is not fixed. they swivel in their mount.

[Tinkerer]

You guys like to call names.
If you guys are not willing to go try if for yourselves - then I am done here.
PROVE ME WRONG.

Boy are you guys going to feel dumb.

[Tinkerer]

Daredevil - put your boat into a turn and leave it at that angle at full throttle constantly and lets see how long your coupler lasts.
Were not talking the 1 to 2 % of the time that you are turning - we are talking 100% of the time.

[Tinkerer]

QUOTE

See how you can move the whole assembly around - That is why a double U joint WILL allow side loading and a single will NOT.


:confused::confused::confused:

how can that be if the double u joint is behind the bearing that is fixed ?????:seeya:

The center of the coupler is not fixed - it is rubber mounted. It can flex
Explain to me why the rubber part of the coupler goes out. ( I know the answer - do you )

[Tinkerer]

Not to jump in here ,,,,,,but you are saying if my rear mounts sag down ( 1/8 inch ) all i have to do is lower the front and i will still have the coupler in one line with the gimbal bearing ??????? mmhhhhh makes no sense at all !!!!!!!!

Look at you r diagram - now lower the back of the engine a small amount and the front of the engine a larger amount - Your drive shaft line still lines up with the gimbal bearing. ( remember the gimbal bearing will swivel to any angle to match the shaft)

[Geronimo36]

Tinkerer, do you do this for a living or do you tinker?

[blackhawk]

Wow, I can't believe how many of you guys can't put your head around this. I have never came across sagging mounts but this makes perfect sense to me.

Rear mounts sag alignment tool won't go in.
Lower front of motor, slide alignment tool in, gimbal bearing swivels down slightly, tool slides into coupler easily, you think engine is aligned, it's not.

[DAREDEVIL]

Wow, I can't believe how many of you guys can't put your head around this. I have never came across sagging mounts but this makes perfect sense to me.

Rear mounts sag alignment tool won't go in.
Lower front of motor, slide alignment tool in, gimbal bearing swivels down slightly, tool slides into coupler easily, you think engine is aligned, it's not.

I realy don't think the bearing swivels !!! 2nd. if u use the aligment tool properly it should not go in.

here is a picture of an aligment tool ( the one i have ).
The ring on there ,goes in to the gimbalhousing to keep it centered so if u now try this after the aligment is off,,,,it will not work !!!! ( because the ring will not fit the hole in the housing )

Tinker,,,PM me for my adress and send me the check !!!!!!!!!!!!!! SORRY

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Wow, I can't believe how many of you guys can't put your head around this. I have never came across sagging mounts but this makes perfect sense to me.

Rear mounts sag alignment tool won't go in.
Lower front of motor, slide alignment tool in, gimbal bearing swivels down slightly, tool slides into coupler easily, you think engine is aligned, it's not.

I am glad you get it.

The corrective action for a sagging mount is to replace them as a pair. Not lower the front of the motor. Simple, end of discussion

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

It is my suggestion to anyone changing a coupler to pull the motor with out moving the adjustable mounts. Either pull the mounts or take some measure as not to move then nut. Change the coupler, set motor, grease the tool and slide it in. The grease will leave a mark to see with a flash light. If the tool hits the back edge of the coupler and misses the hole the back of the motor is incorrect. Correct the height issue in the back do not lower the front. If you find you are making major adjustment in the front something is likely wrong in the back.

[Tinkerer]

Daredevil - The bearing DOES swivel...

Mobile - replace both rear mounts - NO S H I T - What I am talking about is that there is more to it than just sliding the tool in and it is good to go.

Blackhawk get's it. I guess the EXPERTS don't yet understand.

[Tinkerer]

Mobile - so you are saying that if the tool goes through the gimbal bearing and doesn't enter the hole in the coupler - then the rear of the motor has dropped.

Not always true.
What happens if when the drive was removed the gimbal bearing get bumped just a little bit.

When I check for alignment I always move the gimbal bearing arround in it's carrier to make sure that it is not locked in place.

[Tinkerer]

Blackhawk - They don't get it - now they think that we are saying to solve the rear mount problem is to lower the front of the motor.

Mobile - if you have been doing this for 30+ years you should be able to figure this out.

Geranimo - It seems that I know more than the EXPERTS.
I am an HVAC company owner - that is how I make a good living.
I used to build racing engines for a hobby. ( liability ins. got too pricey )
I have worked on high performance boats for 31 years now.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Yes, the bearing can swivel that is why it is called a gimble bearing. It is tight and should not move during operation. Yes, moving the bearing is part of the alignment process.

If the gimble was so loose it moved when you removed the drive replace it.

[Tinkerer]

Daredevil - Most of the people on here DON'T have the part that goes into the bell housing - or if they do don't use it or know what it is for.
What I made is about the same as the stock part but with much tighter tolerances to show that everything is not right.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Geranimo - It seems that I know more than the EXPERTS.
I am an HVAC company owner - that is how I make a good living.
I used to build racing engines for a hobby. ( liability ins. got too pricey )
I have worked on high performance boats for 31 years now.

I am happy for you.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Daredevil - Most of the people on here DON'T have the part that goes into the bell housing - or if they do don't use it or know what it is for.
What I made is about the same as the stock part but with much tighter tolerances to show that everything is not right.

The part that goes it to the bellhousing is for Trannie based applications. In those the rear bearing is in the trannie not on the transom. It aligns the trannie to the drive because it all floats in the transom.

You can go ahead and pat yourself on the your back about how much you know. I have lost track of your point in all this posturing.

[Tinkerer]

All that I am doing is TRYING to show that there is more to checking alignment than what is done by the service and repair shops.

And I am getting flamed for it.

Maybe I shouldn't try to help any more....

Most appreciate the help I GIVE. I don't make any $ from this FREE help.

If you don't want it you don't have to take it.

ALL that I work on are HIGH PERFORMANCE boats.

[MacGyver]

All that I am doing is TRYING to show that there is more to checking alignment than what is done by the service and repair shops.

And I am getting flamed for it.

Maybe I shouldn't try to help any more....



Or try dropping the attitude and stop YELLING.

[Tinkerer]

Mobile - maybe you need to reread the thread.

The whole jist of my coments is that there is more to alignment than what is being done at the so called repair shops. END OF STORY.

That same part CAN give you an indication that the rear mounts are sagged.

TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT - IT IS UP TO YOU....

I still don't have anyone willing to put their $ where their mouth is.

PROVE ME WRONG...................................

[Tinkerer]

Mac - I am not the one with the attitude.

I am not the one name calling.

I am just trying to help.

some people just don't want to learn that there is more to something than what they have been doing for 30+ years.

[Ratickle]

It isn't lack of grease that blows couplers its lack of alignment.

Get an alignment tool - your engine is WAY off.

Here is your first comment. If you want to be a part of the team around here to help solve issues for those of us "Backyard" mechs who try to learn themselves, your first post in the thread should have read something like,

Bad/sagging motor mounts in the rear can cause alignment issues which are difficult to check with the stock Merc tool.

If you work on these as long as you have, you know that is not the most common issue for blowing couplers. These guys still do this for a living, and have for years. And some work on the race boats all over the country, they are not stupid and have saved members thousands of dollars by donating their time and expertise to the site.


Geranimo - It seems that I know more than the EXPERTS.


Wanna bet your thousand bucks on that one????? I'll have my certified Merc mech write the test and send it out.....


ALL that I work on are HIGH PERFORMANCE boats.

You should reword that to, when I'm working on boats, and not working on my business.


I am not the one name calling.


I've really seen no name calling, but as I said about post 2 above, stating you know more than the experts is gonna start issues.




In the meantime, think about it and see if you agree. Everyone with expertise to help is welcome, but we all try to work together to a solution by asking, "what if". If you are saying a sagging rear mount, aligned by lowering the front mounts, is the only/#1 cause of coupler failure, I'd bet you're wrong.....

[blackhawk]

I am glad you get it.

The corrective action for a sagging mount is to replace them as a pair. Not lower the front of the motor. Simple, end of discussion

No one ever said to lower the front of the motor to correct sagging mounts. The topic came up to CHECK THE REAR mounts because you can lower the front of the motor and get the tool to slide in if your mounts have sagged.

Tinkerer was trying to be helpful by saying you make sure your motor is aligned AND check your rear mounts for sagging if it needs adjustment, not just adjust the motor. And for some reason a bunch of people jump on him. :confused:

I'm out.

[Ratickle]

Tinkerer was trying to be helpful by saying you make sure your motor is aligned AND check your rear mounts for sagging if it needs adjustment, not just adjust the motor. And for some reason a bunch of people jump on him.

I gotta disagree, if he would have said that, like that, there most likely would have been a very beneficial discussion for all.

This is what he started with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerer

It isn't lack of grease that blows couplers its lack of alignment.

Get an alignment tool - your engine is WAY off.



Are you agreeing lack of grease does not blow couplers? I think you're wrong there from talking with both my Merc drive guys.

[Tinkerer]

I NEVER said that saging rear mounts was the major cause of blown couplers.
What I said was the engine is out of alignment.
I then tried to show these guys what can happen when the rear mounts sag and that got turned into this bashing debate.

I still havn't found anyone that can prove me wrong on the isue of the saging rear mounts still allowing for what looks to be proper alignment with the standard method that the Merc. techs use.

As far as name calling - You have got to be kidding me.
I have been bashed since I came on this thread.
See post #34 - I wasn't the only one getting the wrath of Mobile.

Telling me that the more I type the less he thinks of me or my abilities, warning others not to use my services. And more.

[Tinkerer]

Rat - on this subject - it seems that just maybe I do know more than a few of the experts bashing me on this thread. If you are reading into this as me saying I know more on any subject than a MERC tech than You are reading it wrong.

I did state what I do for a living. BUT the boats I work on are primarily all high performance types. I am not an english major. I think an english majors knowledge would be wasted on this forum. Don't we need peolpe with hands on knowledge repairing boats. I have learned over the years that sometimes the crazy idea is sometimes correct. Just because I have been doing something one way for many years doesn't make it always right.
Sometimes the technical books get things wrong. Or don't go into enough detail.
I have seen many cases of this in my life.
There is a boiler that is produced today that has a small design change due to my visit to the factory years ago. When I made the suggestion everyone looked at me like who the H do you think you are. Guess what - I was right - what I told them would happen did. They made the change I suggested and sent me a letter thanking me.
I am getting that same attitude ( who the H do you think you are ) here on this thread.

Just because I don't repair boats daily or build race boats doesn't make me stupid.

All I did was tell him to check the alignment. And all the bashing led to this.....

[Tinkerer]

Ask your Merc tech what will blow a coupler quicker - an engine baddly out of alignment or an engine that is in perfect alignment but is going dry on grease.

We have yet to find out what went bad - If it was the coupler was it the splines or the rubber part???

[Blue Thunder]

I think when you get right down to it, its like this. The schooled and experienced merc guys have lots of reps with problems and formulate an absolute solution for it. 90% of the time this is correct for customers applications, the other 10% they wing it.

Then you combine that mentallity (on here) with people who have been doing this as a serious hobby for umpteen years with a high level of practical, out of the box experience, you get tension. I wish the educated crowd would pay more mind to the practical crowd. They would be well served for it in their profession.

I know as an educated and experienced mfg engineer that the most valuable info I get with production equipment is from the high school drop out operators that run the machines every day. You just have to pay attention to what is said and translate it to achieve higher level solutions. To disregard input is short sighted by the schooled, experienced folks. I fire engineers and techs for that mentallity.

BT

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The shaft still needs to be paralell to the bottom of the boat.
How do you know that the rear mounts havn't sagged?


Isn't there a different transom assembly for each different angle transom?


I made an attachment for my alignment tool to check the rear mounts for sag.
I bet you don't have one. It wasn't hard to figure out. If the alignment tool is not at the right angle in relation to the drive it shows up instantly.


I bet that you think that if the alignment tool slides right in smooth everything is OK.

NOT


I can lower the front of an engine two inches and still get the alignment tool to show that everthing is perfect according to your MERC tech.

Steve it was comments like these that have me questioning your abilities. You made it an argument. And the one when you blow 3 couplers in 30 minutes. I bet ,I bet, I bet....

I still do not wish to argue with you. There is no wrath on my part. It is you continuing to argue. Tell me again about how everything is HP you work on. The high performance boats I work on have non adjustable mounts and this is one big non issue about lowering the front and what might happen.

[Tinkerer]

So let me get this straight - You don't think that the engine on a bravo set up is by design paralell to the bottom of the boat.

I might be wrong but I thought that there was a different transom assembly or a tappered spacer for flat off angle transoms. I thought I saw something somewhere about that. ( All the boats I work on have the same transom angle.)

What don't you believe about the tool I made. It works.

So you are saying that IF your alignment tool slides right in smootly then the engine has to be aligned properly. I thought I already prooved that idea wrong.

You don't think that I can lower the front of an engine with bravo drive two inches and still get the stock alignment tool ( shaft only ) to slide right in smoothly.

I have $1000 says I can.

And it takes two to argue.

I never said I have blown three couplers in 30 minutes.
I said I blew a ( one ) new coupler in 30 minutes after a MERC tech said the engine was properly aligned. I blew three couplers in two weeks ( one each weekend ) ( it was my boat ) when the second coupler blew I replaced it and aligned it myself and THEN had it checked by the MERC tech at a well known marine repair facility where I live. That coupler lasted about 2 hours. After the third coupler blew I started thinking out of the box and figured out what was wrong. ( the rear mounts had gone bad and allowed the rear of the engine to drop. I was still able to ( align ) the engine by dropping the front of the motor. It was not obvious because there was no way to directly see the rear mounts. How I figured something was wrong was by seeing the ANGLE of the alignment tool in relation to the bottom the boat. As I raised the back of the engine with shims and also raised the front of the motor with the adjustment nuts the alignment tool came into line with the bottom of the boat. ( paralell )

How many boats have offshore mounts that you work on. I find that the majority of the boats I work on were once stock - with stock mounts. That is why I am so carefull about checking for mount failure.

[Ratickle]

I am getting that same attitude ( who the H do you think you are ) here on this thread......

Only because of the way you started.

You are complaining about others doing the exact same thing you started with in your first post.

Read it and tell me what your reaction would be if that was someone else's first post to you a couple of pages into a thread where multiple people are trying to help someone.

You immediately dismissed everything everyone had said and it was "Your engine is way out of alignment", period. Couldn't be anything else.....

I have never, (knock on wood), blown either. Don't want to, but if I can learn anything to help anyone else, I will pay attention.


Anyway, I live north of Holland, used to live on Gun, what boats do you work on? I know most of them around West Michigan.....

[MacGyver]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/sparkyrick/ban.gifhttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/sparkyrick/ban.gifhttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/sparkyrick/ban.gifhttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/sparkyrick/ban.gifhttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/sparkyrick/ban.gifhttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/sparkyrick/ban.gif

[Tinkerer]

I see that If you don't have a degree behind your name your thoughts don't matter here.

No one has proven me wrong.

No one is willing to try what I suggested.

I am done here.

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Scheduled maintenance pertaining to couplers. Manual #23 states engine couplers need to be greased every 100 hrs or seasons end.

Manual Racing #9 Hp 525 suggests every 50 hrs or seasons end. Mercury has there own spline grease 92-802880A1. It is different than the gimble bearing U joint grease # 92-802870A1.

If you pay attention you will notice there is almost always grit that accumulates in the splines when you service your drives. This grit is aluminum and dried grease. If the spline comes out dry it is more obvious. Splines wear. If at some point it failed understand that it may have been a progression of situations that contributed to it.

Once the coupler has failed it may not be obvious immediately why. You cannot check alignment on a failed coupler. The best way I have found to repair properly the first time is to remove the motor with out disturbing the alignment so when you replace it you have more information to go on. I always take a good look at the rear mounts, the condition of the stringers, and on twins the line up of exhaust across the boat.

Often the motor will line up. If it doesn't this is the time to recognize what has moved if anything. It may be worth taking a second look at the rear mount and associated hardware. If you find the need to move the front of the motor more than a few turns chances are good something else is wrong.

The pedestal adjustable mounts have a few short comings. The tabs often don't get locked, the threads can get beat out and the allow the motor to float around some. Race plate mounts naturally hold the motor better. Double race mounts the best.

I have seen busted stringers, bellhousing with out locating dowels and broken bellhouings, bent aluminum angle plates, angle hardware loose and moving all play a part in coupler failures.

If you know the mounts have moved there is a chance the coupler got hot and the rubber shows signs of melting around the splines. The splines may no longer be centered. This will make it impossible to align properly. It is possible to blow the rubber out with power. It may slip a little every time as it eats across a chop until it gets hot and fails but, you would have to run it really hard for an extended period.

[MacGyver]

I see that If you don't have a degree behind your name your thoughts don't matter here.

No one has proven me wrong.

No one is willing to try what I suggested.

I am done here.

I think a Merc mechanic with years of experience would be someone I'd listen to.

[Geronimo36]

So you are saying that IF your alignment tool slides right in smootly then the engine has to be aligned properly. I thought I already prooved that idea wrong.

You don't think that I can lower the front of an engine with bravo drive two inches and still get the stock alignment tool ( shaft only ) to slide right in smoothly.

I have $1000 says I can.

Not trying to insinuate more argument but if the rear mounts go bad and sags yes, you'll have to lower the front of the engine to get the same angle but the centerline of the gimbal bearling and the coupler has changed. It doesn't matter that the gimbal bearing swivels because the centerlines are now skewed. In the end all you did is lower the engine and the gimbal bearing stayed in the same place (higher than the engine). If the mounts sagged a little sometimes you can still be able to get the tool in but if they sagged a lot you wont. Rub some spline grease on the alignment tool and slide it in. Pull it out and note the spline marks on the tool and you will see the top half having spline marks and the bottom half will either have faint markings or none at all. The tool is supposed to be slid in/out with minmal pressure.

If you lower the front of an engine two inches you would have to hammer the tool in. I remember years ago I had to fix stringers on a fishing boat cause the forward stringers got soft and the engine went down about a 1/2". I couldn't get the engine aligned unless I put a piece of starboard under the mounts. I then had to fix the stringers for the owner. I raised X dimensions on my boat did all new offshore mounts a few months ago and small movements in the front made a big difference sliding the tool in/out and the spline/grease markings on the tool.

[DAREDEVIL]

Not trying to insinuate more argument but if the rear mounts go bad and sags yes, you'll have to lower the front of the engine to get the same angle but the centerline of the gimbal bearling and the coupler has changed. It doesn't matter that the gimbal bearing swivels because the centerlines are now skewed. In the end all you did is lower the engine and the gimbal bearing stayed in the same place (higher than the engine). If the mounts sagged a little sometimes you can still be able to get the tool in but if they sagged a lot you wont. Rub some spline grease on the alignment tool and slide it in. Pull it out and note the spline marks on the tool and you will see the top half having spline marks and the bottom half will either have faint markings or none at all. The tool is supposed to be slid in/out with minmal pressure.

If you lower the front of an engine two inches you would have to hammer the tool in. I remember years ago I had to fix stringers on a fishing boat cause the forward stringers got soft and the engine went down about a 1/2". I couldn't get the engine aligned unless I put a piece of starboard under the mounts. I then had to fix the stringers for the owner. I raised X dimensions on my boat did all new offshore mounts a few months ago and small movements in the front made a big difference sliding the tool in/out and the spline/grease markings on the tool.

THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!! Now finally i can recieve my check from him !

[DAREDEVIL]

Also just for info,,,my engine is lower in the front then the back if u go by the bottom of the bilge,,and i think most of them are.
I do have RACEMOUNTS front and back and the engine is aligent 100% prefect with the gimbal ( outdrive ).

So the statement above i think are actually wrong on most or some aplications u can't go by that since most of the boats are diffrent even from same manufacture ,,sometimes !

And u better stop betting and take the 1000 bucks and invest in a crash course with merc. LOL

PS, the statement i made about the bearing being fixed is because it is,,,the only reason why it swivels is dou to the ~1000th of gap for the grease it swiels less then 1/16 of an inch ,,if it would not do that even with a perfect aligment it would explode with each fibration of the drive or engine . also it cant/shouldn't move in the gimbal otherwise u would not need one. Or a puller to get it out ?!

I know i sound like a smart@SS sometimes ,,but i have been around rigging for a long time,the only thing i don't have a clue about on a boat is the inside of an engine,,,but thats why i know JIM .LOL:USA:

PEACE OUT , i am done :leaving:

[Ratickle]

I think a Merc mechanic with years of experience would be someone I'd listen to.

Hey, we don't do the name calling stuff no matter how upset we are. We are all trying to do our best to help people. But thanks for sticking up for the guys who have been here.

Now, how about editing that?

[Ratickle]

I know i sound like a smart@SS sometimes

Sometimes, did you say sometimes??????:sifone:

[Ratickle]

Guys,

I do not want this thread to end up closed. Take a breath and lets see what his outcome is for one thing, then we'll run a couple tests and find out.

I've got my one Bravo boat at Ben's right now.

I have to believe the 2" is an overstatement by a bunch. But, there is no one on this thread who doesn't think a properly aligned engine is a bad thing.

If George and Scotty can get along to help this sport, so should this bunch.....

[Griswald]

I luv the interweb...................

[Geronimo36]

But, there is no one on this thread who doesn't think a properly aligned engine is a bad thing.

True dat! :USA:

[Ratickle]

I see that If you don't have a degree behind your name your thoughts don't matter here.

No one has proven me wrong.

No one is willing to try what I suggested.

I am done here.


I think a Merc mechanic with years of experience would be someone I'd listen to.


Hey, we don't do the name calling stuff no matter how upset we are. We are all trying to do our best to help people. But thanks for sticking up for the guys who have been here.

Now, how about editing that?


Thanks Rick, appreciate it.....:)

[Powerabout]

Late post but yes
Caught with the sunk mounts and 'supposed aligned engine'.
After that we always replaced the rear mounts when doing a coupler.
from 30 years ago...
The Merc factory also explained it to us in school...
I like the idea to use the bell housing guide on the tool to check it...good one Tinkerer
Just imagine how hard the u joints are working when the mounts sag..permanent turn!