Cafe vs Top Gun

[inbetween]

Guys, I need an education. Cafe vs Gun, what are the pros and cons of each, conventional bottoms? Is one better than the other? If you were going to buy, under $100K, which one? Thanks.

[insanity]

Bottoms have always seemed pretty similar, other than one is about 2'6" longer. It's called a Top Gun for a reason :D

[FULL FORCE]

I have heard the Cafe is a better ride, not sure why but thats what I heard..

[SKRAMER]

You can't go wrong with either one. If I had a 100k and didn't ever own a Cafe I would buy the Topgun...I believe it depends on the year topgun and engine and drive package on how well it will ride. I also believe power for power the Topgun will be faster then the Cafe... Both are great boats. You will be happy with what ever one you decide to buy. The Cafe is like a collectors item. Cigarette only made 110 of them. I love my Cafe!!!! Good luck shopping. You know where I live!!! Just my .02

[cigdaze]

I've been in both, and honestly I have found very little discernible difference between the two in ride; they're damn near identical as far as I'm concerned. 2.5' and a different deck are about the only things that separate the two. Cafe's are rare[er], while Top Guns are a dime a dozen (not that it diminishes its qualities in any way). Personally, between the two I prefer the deck lines and styling of the Cafe better, but that's a biased opinion.
:)

[insanity]

Was there a seperate hull mold built for the Cafe's or did they just use a dam in a TG mold?

[cigdaze]

I don't know if they shared molds or not, but I do know that the 35 came first. Aronow designed and built the first 35’ Cigarette race boat 1972, which later went into production as the Cafe. This was later lengthened to 37' 6" and became the TG.

[Mkramer]

You can't go wrong with either one. If I had a 100k and didn't ever own a Cafe I would buy the Topgun...I believe it depends on the year topgun and engine and drive package on how well it will ride. I also believe power for power the Topgun will be faster then the Cafe... Both are great boats. You will be happy with what ever one you decide to buy. The Cafe is like a collectors item. Cigarette only made 110 of them. I love my Cafe!!!! Good luck shopping. You know where I live!!! Just my .02



Yeah...I'll second that!! Go get one Adam!

[Seafordguy]

I believe Most TG's are notched transoms. NO cafe's are.

The Cafe dash console and left console are different. The deck where it meets the firewall on Cafe's is not straight across, but rather angled giving it a really nice look (better than the TG's in my opinion). The TG deck is flat with a railing down the middle, the Cafe deck has a recessed area in it with non-skid that is nice to walk down at night after the dew starts falling and the drinks start flowing - I credit this to keeping me out of the water on many occasions.

In the cabin the Cafe has a separate couch that does not flow into the V-berth whereas the Top gun couch flows into the V-berth (I am talking about the 1990+ style cabins here)

As far as ride - in all my research I never found anyone that could say there was a significant difference in the two.

The TG obviously has a couple hundred pounds on the Cafe, but not enough that it materially affects performance I don't believe.

Believe the Cafe bottom is from the Mistress mold....

Don't expect to see much difference in size in either the cockpit, or the cabin, or the engine room because you won't IMO.

They made 140 some Cafe's I believe, and obviously hundreds upon hundreds of Gun's..... edit - SKRAMER seems to think it was less than that. He probably knows better than I because truthfully I can't even remember where I got that # from.

The first picture is a GUN cabin and you can see the couch run into the V-berth.

The second picture is a Cafe Cabin and you can see the couch does NOT. In the picture the back of the couch folds down to extend the V-berth and that is what those "square" looking coushins are.

The last picture you can see where the wind deflector is that the deck slopes down and off and REALLY is a nice look whereas on the TG it would just be straight across.

Hope that helps...

[Sean Stinson]

I believe Most TG's are notched transoms. NO cafe's are.

The Cafe dash console and left console are different. The deck where it meets the firewall on Cafe's is not straight across, but rather angled giving it a really nice look (better than the TG's in my opinion). The TG deck is flat with a railing down the middle, the Cafe deck has a recessed area in it with non-skid that is nice to walk down at night after the dew starts falling and the drinks start flowing - I credit this to keeping me out of the water on many occasions.

In the cabin the Cafe has a separate couch that does not flow into the V-berth whereas the Top gun couch flows into the V-berth (I am talking about the 1990+ style cabins here)

As far as ride - in all my research I never found anyone that could say there was a significant difference in the two.

The TG obviously has a couple hundred pounds on the Cafe, but not enough that it materially affects performance I don't believe.

Believe the Cafe bottom is from the Mistress mold....

Don't expect to see much difference in size in either the cockpit, or the cabin, or the engine room because you won't IMO.

They made 140 some Cafe's I believe, and obviously hundreds upon hundreds of Gun's..... edit - SKRAMER seems to think it was less than that. He probably knows better than I because truthfully I can't even remember where I got that # from.

The first picture is a GUN cabin and you can see the couch run into the V-berth.

The second picture is a Cafe Cabin and you can see the couch does NOT. In the picture the back of the couch folds down to extend the V-berth and that is what those "square" looking coushins are.

The last picture you can see where the wind deflector is that the deck slopes down and off and REALLY is a nice look whereas on the TG it would just be straight across.

Hope that helps...



Bravo....very good rendition of the differences!!!!!

[SKRAMER]

I believe Most TG's are notched transoms. NO cafe's are.

The Cafe dash console and left console are different. The deck where it meets the firewall on Cafe's is not straight across, but rather angled giving it a really nice look (better than the TG's in my opinion). The TG deck is flat with a railing down the middle, the Cafe deck has a recessed area in it with non-skid that is nice to walk down at night after the dew starts falling and the drinks start flowing - I credit this to keeping me out of the water on many occasions.

In the cabin the Cafe has a separate couch that does not flow into the V-berth whereas the Top gun couch flows into the V-berth (I am talking about the 1990+ style cabins here)

As far as ride - in all my research I never found anyone that could say there was a significant difference in the two.

The TG obviously has a couple hundred pounds on the Cafe, but not enough that it materially affects performance I don't believe.

Believe the Cafe bottom is from the Mistress mold....

Don't expect to see much difference in size in either the cockpit, or the cabin, or the engine room because you won't IMO.

They made 140 some Cafe's I believe, and obviously hundreds upon hundreds of Gun's..... edit - SKRAMER seems to think it was less than that. He probably knows better than I because truthfully I can't even remember where I got that # from.

The first picture is a GUN cabin and you can see the couch run into the V-berth.

The second picture is a Cafe Cabin and you can see the couch does NOT. In the picture the back of the couch folds down to extend the V-berth and that is what those "square" looking coushins are.

The last picture you can see where the wind deflector is that the deck slopes down and off and REALLY is a nice look whereas on the TG it would just be straight across.

Hope that helps...

This is where I got my info!!!! http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/cigarette/100602-how-many-cafes-where-made.html

[Sean Stinson]

Kind of like the difference between a 36 Apache and A 41 Apache except you're dealing with a little more length in the 41 vs the TG but same differences apply!!!!

[Sean Stinson]

Dont forget the Cafe is somewhat of a raised deck over the TG also!!!

[Sea-Dated]

I m biased but I love the lines of the Cafe'. Still one of the best looking decks out there and the walkway down the middle of the deck is great.

[Seafordguy]

This is where I got my info!!!! http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/cigarette/100602-how-many-cafes-where-made.html

I should have thought about that thread!!!

That isn't many boats over a 10 year spread....

[Mkramer]

Guys, I need an education. Cafe vs Gun, what are the pros and cons of each, conventional bottoms? Is one better than the other? If you were going to buy, under $100K, which one? Thanks.

Adam, I think they are both great boats! I love my GUN! I think you should look for both and pick up the best deal that works for you and Beth! I think you know you won't go wrong either way!!

I've already started the search!! We need more CIGS:drool5: around the Formula's are taking over:(


GOOD LUCK

[FULL FORCE]

Adam, I think they are both great boats! I love my GUN! I think you should look for both and pick up the best deal that works for you and Beth! I think you know you won't go wrong either way!!

I've already started the search!! We need more CIGS:drool5: around the Formula's are taking over:(


GOOD LUCK

And one Baja!

[inbetween]

[QUOTE=SKRAMER;247369]If I had a 100k

I must've been REALLY REALLY tired...$100K...Should be more like $50K :rofl:

[inbetween]

Adam, I think they are both great boats! I love my GUN! I think you should look for both and pick up the best deal that works for you and Beth! I think you know you won't go wrong either way!!

I've already started the search!! We need more CIGS:drool5: around the Formula's are taking over:(


GOOD LUCK

Gotta move the Formula first :)

[inbetween]

I've been in both, and honestly I have found very little discernible difference between the two in ride; they're damn near identical as far as I'm concerned. 2.5' and a different deck are about the only things that separate the two. Cafe's are rare[er], while Top Guns are a dime a dozen (not that it diminishes its qualities in any way). Personally, between the two I prefer the deck lines and styling of the Cafe better, but that's a biased opinion.
:)

I have also been in both, however not necessarily equally powered. Both ride very well. I do like the look of the Cafe deck, but a TG wouldn't be too bad either.

[inbetween]

I believe Most TG's are notched transoms. NO cafe's are.

The Cafe dash console and left console are different. The deck where it meets the firewall on Cafe's is not straight across, but rather angled giving it a really nice look (better than the TG's in my opinion). The TG deck is flat with a railing down the middle, the Cafe deck has a recessed area in it with non-skid that is nice to walk down at night after the dew starts falling and the drinks start flowing - I credit this to keeping me out of the water on many occasions.

In the cabin the Cafe has a separate couch that does not flow into the V-berth whereas the Top gun couch flows into the V-berth (I am talking about the 1990+ style cabins here)

As far as ride - in all my research I never found anyone that could say there was a significant difference in the two.

The TG obviously has a couple hundred pounds on the Cafe, but not enough that it materially affects performance I don't believe.

Believe the Cafe bottom is from the Mistress mold....

Don't expect to see much difference in size in either the cockpit, or the cabin, or the engine room because you won't IMO.

They made 140 some Cafe's I believe, and obviously hundreds upon hundreds of Gun's..... edit - SKRAMER seems to think it was less than that. He probably knows better than I because truthfully I can't even remember where I got that # from.

The first picture is a GUN cabin and you can see the couch run into the V-berth.

The second picture is a Cafe Cabin and you can see the couch does NOT. In the picture the back of the couch folds down to extend the V-berth and that is what those "square" looking coushins are.

The last picture you can see where the wind deflector is that the deck slopes down and off and REALLY is a nice look whereas on the TG it would just be straight across.

Hope that helps...

Thanks. And yes that helps!

[cheeta]

both great boats!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[J-Bonz]

A plus for the Cafe is how the engine hatch is made. It offers one more room while changing spark plugs.............. :) I agree with the others.... They are both a great choice. You just need to find one that fits your criteria.
Jr.

[Seafordguy]

A plus for the Cafe is how the engine hatch is made. It offers one more room while changing spark plugs.............. :) I agree with the others.... They are both a great choice. You just need to find one that fits your criteria.
Jr.

What's the difference here??? I've never noticed - just curious

[J-Bonz]

What's the difference here??? I've never noticed - just curious

The sides are attached to it. On my friends it seemed that there was more room to get to the outside of the engines than what is pictured here..........

[Seafordguy]

My Hatch goes up in the middle like the one in that Light Blue GUN (center pic).

That other one is a boat I had on my list of "ones to consider" - it was the one that burned up in the North East correct? I believe it burned AGAIN a few months after it was sold.....

[Chris]

aside from the creature comforts, the gun is going to run better in heavier water simply because of the additional weight and the length. But it's going to take more ponies to do it. The 38 is also going to be more stable at speed than the shorter 35.

[lucky strike]

both great boats!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bingo.... Both great boats !

I've had a few 35's & a few 38's.

I like the Top Gun better....Just my 2 cents

[BDiggity]

where is the extra length of the gun distributed at? it seems like some of it is up at the bow where it would rarely be in the water.

[Seafordguy]

where is the extra length of the gun distributed at? it seems like some of it is up at the bow where it would rarely be in the water.

I am convinced that a good portion of the extra length is in the bow, and that possibly the consoles in the Gun are a little bigger than in the Cafe....Never measured these though, just going off gut instinct....

I don't see it in the cockpit, engine compartment or cabin.

[jryan26]

Inbetween check your pm

[Tank]

according to craig Barrie (built the top gun and the cafe for years) the top gun is a faster hull with same power.

With that said, I love the cafe and actually was looking to buy one before we came across our gun. Both ride great, both have about the same cockpit room and both have extremely similar cabin set ups (which in my opinion is one of the best cabins out there).

The top gun was/is the best selling model in cigarette history. I don't know if I'd say "dime a dozen" but there's def more out there (just look at the classified right now; limited cafes for sale compared to guns).
From a buying aspect a cafe is awesome. You get a lot of boat for less money than a gun.

Either way you can't go wrong!

[jryan26]

Here you go!

[Seafordguy]

Here you go!

Good lookin' GUN

[Tank]

Here you go!

thought that sold? As I recall, that was a good deal. New paint fresh motors and #3 drives for a decent price if memory serves. Good looking gun

[Chris]

If you know where to look, you can find the 35 in the 38 hull. They carried over some mold imperfections. You can also find the same thing in an Apache 41. The 38 is lengthened in the rear. Properly set up and with equivalent weight, the 38 will do an extra couple MPH with equal power.

[jryan26]

thought that sold? As I recall, that was a good deal. New paint fresh motors and #3 drives for a decent price if memory serves. Good looking gun

Its for sale. He cant make up his mind on it. It has 3a's with boxes, 750's and has been completely gone through. He wants 75k.

[TCEd]

where is the extra length of the gun distributed at? it seems like some of it is up at the bow where it would rarely be in the water.

Yea, sorta like a Fountain.
ed

[Geronimo36]

If you know where to look, you can find the 35 in the 38 hull. They carried over some mold imperfections. You can also find the same thing in an Apache 41. The 38 is lengthened in the rear. Properly set up and with equivalent weight, the 38 will do an extra couple MPH with equal power.

I wonder if that's due to the extra rocker on the TG? Since they lengthened it from the 35, I guess they just continued the rocker????

I agree with Stinson about the 36' Apache vs/ the 41'. The 36' Apache came from a 41' Apache. They added rocker into the bottom cause when MM damned the 41' the numbers didn't work so Bobby had to add rocker when he got the mold.

Totally off-topic but I wonder if MM added rocker to the 36' Comanche? :leaving:

[jryan26]

Its for sale. He cant make up his mind on it. It has 3a's with boxes, 750's and has been completely gone through. He wants 75k.

More pics

[SKRAMER]

I'll make you a great deal on this one!!!!

[LEOPAJM]

There ya go !

[inbetween]

More pics

That's VERY nice. Unfortunately, I need to move the Formula before I can do anything.

[FULL FORCE]

I'll make you a great deal on this one!!!!

Hmmm.....:sifone:

[FULL FORCE]

That's VERY nice. Unfortunately, I need to move the Formula before I can do anything.

Dude... move it to the neighbors then you will have room for the Mc Cafe! :26:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/86lxmustang/cid__0704091047.jpg

[J-Bonz]

Dude... move it to the neighbors then you will have room for the Mc Cafe! :26:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/86lxmustang/cid__0704091047.jpg

Nice Tim, I didnt even notice the McDonalds Cup hanging there this weekend.........

[inbetween]

Nice Tim, I didnt even notice the McDonalds Cup hanging there this weekend.........

Hammy took that down about noon :boxing_smiley:

Saw your TG Sat. at the Casino, great looking ride. We should have introduced ourselves and had a closer look at it. Next time.

[inbetween]

Dude... move it to the neighbors then you will have room for the Mc Cafe! :26:

The neighbor was trying to sell me his 35 TS...

[J-Bonz]

Hammy took that down about noon :boxing_smiley:

Saw your TG Sat. at the Casino, great looking ride. We should have introduced ourselves and had a closer look at it. Next time.

Should have stopped by, It would have been nice to meet ya
Jr.

[MattBMiller]

I'll make you a great deal on this one!!!!

Love that boat!