personal responsibilty goes beyond you.

[phragle]

A lot has been said on a few sites about Jax... I see it as you should be able to go as fast as you or the promoter deem safe. That being said, there needs to be an understanding between you, your crew and your respective families. You are choosing of your own free will to travel at fatal speeds. People like Boatme, and the various charities that some of the runs contribute to should not have to bear the burden of a possible error in your judgment. Unfortunately the innocent often bar the burden. I am not trying to be critical, hell if Gino offered me a ride, I would be in that boat in a second, but it would be of my own free will, the significant people in my life all understand this and accept it. This is a conversation that must take place with your wives, parents, children etc. yet it is often overlooked as it is just not comfortable to ask your wife, mother, daughter, etc, to respect your wishes when the lawyers come calling.

The other thing that has me confused is that several people have said "why would race at a race, there's only 2 boats that would be in my class" well, if everyone that was racing at poker runs would race in a race, the classes would be a little fuller.. kind of like saying "I need to save money, so I'm not going to work today, because it would cost $7.00 in gas to go to work"

[phragle]

41 views...not one comment. I realize that we all love what we do, and the furthest thing from our mind is something bad happening. Its the last thing we wantto think about, but we must.

[gerritm]

Comment? Why, there is only one way these things end today. Litigation and lawyers. In the old days (60's-70's) when we had a challenge to our cars or bikes we went out to Kilbourne Road (our local cpounty road we raced on), raced and settled it. You lost or crashed, you picked up the pieces and went home. This was in our poorer days. Today we do it at poker runs with millions of dollars in hardware. Quit kidding yourself, we all want to be first at the card stop. Even though my boat only does 80 plus, I try. Lawyers see gold in our boats and livelyhoods. They are going to take advantage of it and convince someone/anyone involved that they deserve a piece of the pie. We have become a nation controlled by lawyers, courts, and freebies. We all need to accept and take responsibility for our actions. I hope that if something happened to me doing what I love my wife and family would accept that I was responsible for my actions.

With that said if Gino and others want to "race" in a somewhat controlled environment, go for it. I respect them and understand. What's the point in owning a million dollar piece of speed and art and not using it.

[Chris]

It's not always the lawyers. Sometimes it's the grossly unprepared, grossly under-qualified and the grossly over-their-heads that cause these catastrophic mishaps that injure or kill innocent people.

Some of this poker run stuff cracks me up. Canopy boats without a helicopter/diver to get them out, 150+ mph open-cockpit boats, "racing" on open waterways with kids on jetskis, fisherman, mom & pop and a whole collection of people that have no idea that today is race day and their on the course. No tech inspection... I could go on.

The "back in the old days" comment is the most striking. Because nothing has changed. 30 years ago, a girl would go out on a date and find herself in the middle of her boyfriend's pickup drag race. Before she knows what's going on, she's flying down a country road- and maybe barrel-rolling through someone's cow pasture. When she left her house, she had no idea what was coming- and had little time to think about it. Same on some of these runs. People under-informed and often people that have mistakenly placed their trust in a captain assuming he knew what he was doing and their safety was his ultimate concern. There's a reason that none of the race sanctioning bodies allow to let you take your teenage daughter and her boyfriend in the back seat on Sunday.

[Knot 4 Me]

Same on some of these runs. People under-informed and often people that have mistakenly placed their trust in a captain assuming he knew what he was doing and their safety was his ultimate concern. I fell into this category of people about 7 years ago at a manufacture's rally that included a "fun run" (i.e. race) to and from the lunch stop. Me and a friend who owned one of the manufacture's boats but was unable to bring it to the event were placed on another person's boat. Captain seemed responsible as he handed us each a Lifeline poker run jacket. Thinking this would be casual run, I neglected to secure the leg straps. After the lunch stop, the Captain let the entire fleet of boats (60 or so) take off first. He then looked at us and said, "I bet we are first to the next stop". He then proceeded to run flat out, without regard to his passengers or the other members of the run, in order to pass everyone. As we were running down some of the last boats we encountered a larger cruiser wake. The captain quartered the wake at WOT (80 + MPH) without trimming down (tabs were all the way up as well). As we were violently chine walking (actually, pretty much hull-side walking) and I was half hanging out of the boat at one point I remember thinking to myself I'm going to fuc$ing drown because of this clown and me being too stupid to secure the leg straps on this vest. After he recovered control of the boat he never slowed down, never asked how we were, he just continued running like a bat out of hell. When we finally reached the next stop I went into a profanity-laced tirade at the guy. He looked at me like he could not understand what my problem was. He was only concerned that the contents of his fridge had emptied into the cabin of the boat. From that point on my motto is if I don't know you, I'm not getting in your boat.

[gerritm]

It's not always the lawyers. Sometimes it's the grossly unprepared, grossly under-qualified and the grossly over-their-heads that cause these catastrophic mishaps that injure or kill innocent people.

Some of this poker run stuff cracks me up. Canopy boats without a helicopter/diver to get them out, 150+ mph open-cockpit boats, "racing" on open waterways with kids on jetskis, fisherman, mom & pop and a whole collection of people that have no idea that today is race day and their on the course. No tech inspection... I could go on.

The "back in the old days" comment is the most striking. Because nothing has changed. 30 years ago, a girl would go out on a date and find herself in the middle of her boyfriend's pickup drag race. Before she knows what's going on, she's flying down a country road- and maybe barrel-rolling through someone's cow pasture. When she left her house, she had no idea what was coming- and had little time to think about it. Same on some of these runs. People under-informed and often people that have mistakenly placed their trust in a captain assuming he knew what he was doing and their safety was his ultimate concern. There's a reason that none of the race sanctioning bodies allow to let you take your teenage daughter and her boyfriend in the back seat on Sunday.

We actually had a place to settle our ego's. We had set up a 1/4 mile on a deserted county road and dropped the girlfriend off before we commenced with our stupidity. But did we ever play stop light drags, of course, but my point was we were stupid kids with fast cars and bikes and no money. We need to separate ourselves today from the stupid adults with the fast high priced boats. Remember anyone with enough money can go fast today. No experience and no training. Today all of us are seen as targets. I don't know how many times in poker runs we have encountered just what you are saying, jet skis or water roaches, fishermen, and families. We try to be responsible and run our boats hard out in the bay where it is fairly safe, not in the crowded channels and lakes. Every time you go out it is a crap shoot. You may be responsible but that doesn't mean everyone else around you is. But I still think the grossly un-prepared and under qualified are all around us and if something happens the lawyers are waiting in the wings to take advantage of the situation.

[Bobcat]

:seeya:

[Geronimo36]

It's not always the lawyers. Sometimes it's the grossly unprepared, grossly under-qualified and the grossly over-their-heads that cause these catastrophic mishaps that injure or kill innocent people.

Gonna have to agree with Chris on this aspect! Case in point, yesterday I was at the marina hanging out. First time boat owner was launching his new-to-him 37' Step bottom boat that runs 90mph. After launching his first two questions were; 1) Where's the anchor? 2) How do you start it?

You can't make this chit up!:ack2:

Machine operator walks over to me and say's "Hey, Captain Frank." Meaning he thought I should take the guy out and show him how to run his new boat... I turned down the offer and suggested he go to the Tres Martin school cause I can see a problem coming from a mile a way with this guy...

Fast forward, he figures out how to start the boat and realizes the batteries are dead.... Tells the machine operator if he fixes it he'll buy him a drink later on... With that he walks away and sits down at the bar to have a drink...... After he walks away I say to the machine operator, "I bet you have nothing else going on all day today and will charge his batteries for him?" We both had a good laugh and walked away.

About an hour later they get the boat started and he's backing out of the travel lift and bouncing of bow pulpits and all the other passengers are running around like a swarm of bee's trying to fend off...

He gets out and makes 3 attempts to dock the boat on the fuel dock and finally gets in. It's a floating dock and there were 5-10 mph winds yesterday...

As I was driving home I said to myself, I hope I don't read about this guy in the newspapers tomorrow. :(

[Trim'd Up]

Sounds like a good starter boat. Where did I go wrong? I started with a 16' runabout with a 4 banger.

[baywatch]

I am probably not much of anyone to comment on this, but I lost a good friend when I was a sophmore in highschool when he had to prove that his souped up BMW was faster than another Buddies Camaro (this wasn't that long ago I graduated from highschool in 1999). Long story short he didn't start to shut down in time and had way to much speed to navigate a slight turn (way beyond shutdown point). Car flipped several times and landed upside down on the concrete base to a satellite dish. It more or less decapitated him while my other friend in the passenger seat walked away with a couple scratches. There weren't any lawsuits and it was chalked up as an "accident" (because that was what it was). If that would have happend today someone would be trying to sue someone simply because they see an opportunity to make a buck.

When someone gets in my boat I run through locations of PFD's, the fact that the vessel will shut down if I am ejected do to kill lanyard and that if anyone is uncomfortable with my speeds that they should let me know. My boat is extremely!!!! slow yet I still do this out of respect for my passengers so that they feel comfortable and have a general knowledge about what they are getting into.

"Boat Me" summed it up best a while back in stating that some of the "top guns" need to take the leap to the race course or not be so hell bent on being the first one to the first card stop or the bridge. Eventually, the powers that be will make it impossible to get insurance for these sorts of events if things continue on the current path. Sad to say it but that is where I see things going if a fundamental change doesn't occur.

[Caincando1]

There's some good information here. As a poker run promoter I feel the pain from both sides.

[blackhawk]

Gonna have to agree with Chris on this aspect! Case in point, yesterday I was at the marina hanging out. First time boat owner was launching his new-to-him 37' Step bottom boat that runs 90mph.

As I was driving home I said to myself, I hope I don't read about this guy in the newspapers tomorrow. :(

You sure it wasn't a 42'? :ack2:

http://seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10615

[Tres]

Sorry guys, but this all starts at the dealership and insurance agent. They take new people for a ride at speed, No Jackets, No lanyard, and put the boat trough a series of exercises that most should not attempt. THEN! the insurance agent needs a sale so bad, they force a policy through. The insurance company is the the last governor of who gets to the water with no experience. I know I get calls from clients with boats that they have owned for 4 months and I can pick up in the conversation over the phone the dont know how to run their own boat. Shame on the insurance companies. They create their own risk, and you pay in the end!